Anti-Christ Muslim Islam and the End

Douggg said:

In Revelation 13, the person is not the Antichrist any more - but has become the beast.

Antichrist is related to Israel, their mistake of thinking is their long awaited King of Israel messiah. Only lasts about 3 years, until he reveals himself as the man of sin.

The beast is related to the end times Roman Empire, as dictator of the EU, for the last 42 months of the 7 years. Not just a beast, but the beast.


little horn (EU)........who becomes > the Antichrist (3 yrs, Israel)......who becomes> the beast (42 months, EU)

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That person is the false prophet. The forerunner preparing the way.

Timtofly said:

That person is the false prophet. The forerunner preparing the way.

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the false prophet will claim to be Elijah. He will anoint the little horn person as the King of Israel, to become the Antichrist - who later becomes the beast.

Douggg said:

the false prophet will claim to be Elijah. He will anoint the little horn person as the King of Israel, to become the Antichrist - who later becomes the beast.

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The FP comes first. Do you change the verses around for your particular order?

Timtofly said:

The FP comes first. Do you change the verses around for your particular order?

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No. Revelation 13 picks up with 42 months left in the seven years.

The person will have become the beast (the mortally wounded healed head). The second beast, the false prophet, will still be his religious spokes person.

There is nothing in the bible that talks about the false prophet directly before the last 42 months in Revelation 13.

It is only by other information, that it can be reasoned (because it doesn't directly say in the bible) that the false prophet is the one who anoints the little horn as the King of Israel at the beginning of the 7 years.

That other information is that Elijah is supposed to come to prepare the way for the messianic age. Which is why some people were wondering if John the baptist was Elijah.

The Jews set a dinner place for Elijah in expectation of him - every year - at their passover meal.

In Judaism, they believe that the messiah will be anointed the King of Israel by a known prophet. Obviously, Elijah who they are expecting would fit that bill.

What we do know about the false prophet in Revelation 13 is that he calls fire down from heaven - like Elijah did.

Douggg said:

Ezekiel 38-39, God preserves Israel against the Gog/Magog attack.

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Not the 'Jewish State of Israel', He won't.
Why are you unable to see how the entire holy Land will be cleared and cleansed when the arises to strike the earth with His fiery wrath? Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Zephaniah 1:1-18, 2 Peter 3:7

The inhabitants of the holy Land will be the new owners; Jeremiah 8:10
The Israelites of God, as Paul describes in Romans 9:24-2 and Galatians 6:14-16

Douggg said:

No. Revelation 13 picks up with 42 months left in the seven years.

The person will have become the beast (the mortally wounded healed head). The second beast, the false prophet, will still be his religious spokes person.

There is nothing in the bible that talks about the false prophet directly before the last 42 months in Revelation 13.

It is only by other information, that it can be reasoned (because it doesn't directly say in the bible) that the false prophet is the one who anoints the little horn as the King of Israel at the beginning of the 7 years.

That other information is that Elijah is supposed to come to prepare the way for the messianic age. Which is why some people were wondering if John the baptist was Elijah.

The Jews set a dinner place for Elijah in expectation of him - every year - at their passover meal.

In Judaism, they believe that the messiah will be anointed the King of Israel by a known prophet. Obviously, Elijah who they are expecting would fit that bill.

What we do know about the false prophet in Revelation 13 is that he calls fire down from heaven - like Elijah did.

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Revelation 13 also points out that the beast out of the land does all that the first beast has power to do.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Coming out of the earth contextually has been given to Satan. Coming out of the sea represents a human. I know many are looking for an AC, but John did not claim an AC once. Why is the majority opinion fixated on a human AC? The first beast is of human origin, but the only human by the end is the FP.


The FP is not just coming out of humanity, but through some unusual circumstances. In fact the protype for this human was mentioned several times as one of the Greek rulers in Daniel. One who also gained his power by making deals with Satan. Revelation 13 is in the same thought process as a human in league with Satan. This time instead of an abomination of desolation, these two, Satan and the FP, are going even bigger. They are setting up a Messiah that is more than just human in form. It is Satan's own creation in answer to God creating man in God's image. Satan is allowed by God to create his own messianic beast. Satan is sitting as God. Satan has a FP, and now Satan is creating his own messiah that humanity will see as some ultimate savior.

This beast comes from Satan's own technology. It is not human. John never acknowledged that this abomination of desolation is an AC, but always referred to it as the beast. These three mentioned together later, was always referred to as the dragon, the FP, and the beast. I realize that many want two humans, Satan and an image, but that does not match the rest of the narrative. John never defines two humans all the way through to the end of these 42 months.

keras said:

Not the 'Jewish State of Israel', He won't.
Why are you unable to see how the entire holy Land will be cleared and cleansed when the arises to strike the earth with His fiery wrath? Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Zephaniah 1:1-18, 2 Peter 3:7

The inhabitants of the holy Land will be the new owners; Jeremiah 8:10
The Israelites of God, as Paul describes in Romans 9:24-2 and Galatians 6:14-16

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My question was...

"So are you claiming that your fiery destruction of the current nation of Israel is before or after Ezekiel 38-39 ?"

Timtofly said:

Coming out of the earth contextually has been given to Satan. Coming out of the sea represents a human.

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Where are you getting that?

Coming out of the sea in Daniel 7:3 is gentile kingdoms. That historically occupied the land (earth) of Israel.

The false prophet comes out of Israel.

The beast comes out of the gentile nations.

Timtofly said:

John never defines two humans all the way through to the end of these 42 months.

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Yes, John does.

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

The dragon is Satan. The beast and false prophet are two men.

Satan is an angel cast out of heaven. He does not originate from the earth.

Jeffwhosoever said:

Make sure I got it right. There are 3 involved in the end times. The beast = dragon = Satan, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet. I have seen them called the unholy trinity. Is this correct?

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"unholy trinity" is not a biblical statement. It is something people have come up with because those are three persons having an extremely evil nature.

Satan of course has been around since the time of creation. Differently, the false prophet and the beast person are two end times men... who will align themselves with Satan.

Jeffwhosoever said:

Is it (1) False Prophet then (2) Antichrist then (3) Satan ? Who should we expect first to be on the world stage in the end times?

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I think the way you structured your question, imo, the false prophet would be slightly ahead of the Antichrist's being anointed the King of Israel, who begins the 7 years. Satan cast down to earth in the middle of the 7 years.

However, if your question were worded slightly different, I would say that the little horn (who eventually becomes the Antichrist and later the beast) would be first. Then the false prophet. And later Satan cast down to earth in the middle of the 7 years.

Additionally, before Gog/Magog, the ten kings (leaders) must be in place and the little horn person. Who come out of the fourth kingdom, the end times version of the Roman empire, the EU.

I expect to see development of the ten leader structure in Europe as what is coming next. imo.

Douggg said:

My question was...

"So are you claiming that your fiery destruction of the current nation of Israel is before or after Ezekiel 38-39 ?"

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Before.
The holy Land is cleared and cleansed before the new owners come to live there. Jeremiah 8:1-13

Douggg said:

I expect to see development of the ten leader structure in Europe as what is coming next. imo.

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Yes, but Europe will be just one of the ten world regions. Can't you see how the European Union is history and is nothing to do with Bible prophecy?

keras said:

Before.

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In Ezekiel 38:8

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Israel for the past 2000 years, until the return of the Jews at the end of WWII, had been made a waste because of the battles between the crusaders and the muslims, while the Jews were in exile in the nations.

If you say the ones gathered out of many people, out of the nations, is a reference to the church, that would not match what Jesus said of those people.

Christians believe that Jesus is God - it is not something that they will come to believe in the future.

A review of what Jesus said of those people in Ezekiel 39:21-29

The church went into captivity for it's iniquity? No, that is not a match.

Jesus hide his face from the church? No, that is not a match.

The church is Jacob? No, that is not a match, either.

The church was led into captivity among the heathen? No, that is not a match.

The church was given the land of Israel at Mt. Sinai to be it their own land? No, that is not what happened.

The church does not have the Holy Spirit until sometime in the future after Gog/Magog ? No, that is not the case.


Keras, it is impossible for them living in the land of Israel before the Gog/Magog event to be the church.


21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

keras said:

Yes, but Europe will be just one of the ten world regions. Can't you see how the European Union is history and is nothing to do with Bible prophecy?

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Can't be ten leaders of ten world regions because of the battles in Daniel 11:40-44 pits the kingdom of the ten leaders, lead by the beast, against the nations of the north, south, east. Right before the beast meets his end v45.

New Zealand and Australia likely aligned with the western block of nations.

Douggg said:

Where are you getting that?

Coming out of the sea in Daniel 7:3 is gentile kingdoms. That historically occupied the land (earth) of Israel.

The false prophet comes out of Israel.

The beast comes out of the gentile nations.


Yes, John does.

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

The dragon is Satan. The beast and false prophet are two men.

Satan is an angel cast out of heaven. He does not originate from the earth.

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That number of a man is the number given to Adam. Adam and humanity was given that number. Satan is creating his own adam after fallen man, the FP. It will look human, but will not be a human. The mark is not the number of the AC. The mark is God's expiration date, and the removal of names from the Lamb's book of life. It is called the mark of the beast, because it applies to those who worship Satan and are no longer in the image of God, nor ever could be.

The mark pertains to Death:

"and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands" Revelation 20:4

Revelation 14:9-11

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Revelation 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.



The point about Satan creating a human form beast is not because the technology may be available. It is based on Satan's desire to create his own perfect thinking creation better than God can. Satan cannot even be original, but just copying creation. Current eschatology wants a super human to step forward or even a super human incarnated by Satan. What is the point, of human understanding, if the typology is forced onto the Word of God. Satan is already the lawless son of perdition working behind the scenes for over 2300 years, starting with the Greeks. Satan does come out of the pit, the earth. That was the area prepared for Satan and his fallen angels. Satan will be bound in the pit for 1000 years. That is both typology and literal phenomenon, not just human theology and understanding.

Timtofly said:

That number of a man is the number given to Adam. Adam and humanity was given that number.

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Where are you getting that? The 666 was to "a" man. And is the number of the beast (person's) name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Douggg said:

Where are you getting that? The 666 was to "a" man. And is the number of the beast (person's) name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

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A man in Scripture is Adam. For as by one man, sin entered the world.

Douggg said:

In Ezekiel 38:8

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Israel for the past 2000 years, until the return of the Jews at the end of WWII, had been made a waste because of the battles between the crusaders and the muslims, while the Jews were in exile in the nations.

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I am well aware that nothing I say to you has any effect. You have years of commitment to your own beliefs and are locked into them. Isaiah 29:9-12
However, I say you are wrong about the Jewish people being in the holy Land when Gog attacks. Proved by how the peoples there at that time do not rely on 'walls', that is: on their own military strength, as the Jewish State does today. Their 'Samson Option'.
No; the people who will be living in all of the holy Land when Gog attacks cannot be those currently there now. As is prophesied, they will be all the faithful Christian peoples, who will rely on God for their protection.

And as prophesied; God will display His power for all to see, THEN all will know He is real and He will pour out His Spirit upon His Christian peoples.