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Yes, I agree. Even so, Paul was admonishing the born again Christians about this very thing, with the warning that if they continued in sin, they would be lost. Paul taught this in His Gentile Gospel in many Passages throughout all his letters to the Churches.
For instance:
Romans 11:20-22 (WEB) 20 True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
Hebrews 4:11 (WEB)
11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that Rest, lest anyone fall after the same example of disobedience.
Hebrews 4:1 (WEB)
Let us fear therefore, lest perhaps anyone of you should seem to have come short of a promise of entering into his Rest.
1 Timothy 4:16 (WEB)
16 Pay attention to yourself and to your teaching. Continue in these things, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
I could quote tons more Passages like this, and already have. What do you do with these Pauline Gospel warnings and the possibility of losing salvation?
What do you mean by saying:
"how to stop sinning and confessing"?
I agree that Christ gives you the victory. Christ himself taught the Gentile Church, in the Book of Revelation, that we have that victory by Christ through continued faithfulness demonstrated by following Him into a holy life of righteousness.
Revelation 2:10-11 (WEB) 10 Be faithful to death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies. He who overcomes will not be harmed by the second death.
Revelation 3:1-5 (WEB) “I know your works, that you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up and keep the things that remain, which you were about to throw away, for I have found no works of yours perfected before my God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it and repent. If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you. 4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that didn’t defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Revelation 3:11-12 (WEB)
11 I am coming quickly! Hold firmly that which you have, so that no one takes your crown.
Look at those Passages, and you tell me; what do they mean to you?
When you reply, give your answer in the context of those Passages. Please do not just ignore the words of Lord Jesus and give your own spin, as if that were an answer.
Keep in mind that I also believe in the Cross and Blood of Lord Jesus. I believe in the free gift of salvation by God's grace. However, how we define these terms must agree with all the NT Gospel revelation.
If your, or my, understanding of the free gift of salvation is not in agreement with all the Scriptures, then we must carefully consider again our beliefs to make sure our understanding aligns with God's Word, or else, what is the sense of claiming Christianity at all?
My understanding is that the free gift of salvation cannot be earned by anything we do. However, as Scripture teaches, if we repent, and place a Gospel Faith in Lord Jesus, then this faith is not a work, but is how we access that free gift of salvation that God offers to us.
That faith in Lord Jesus, if true, means we have now denied the old life, and have now committed to follow Lord Jesus as our rightful Sovereign into a holy life of righteousness and love. We do not earn salvation by works, but the faith God accepts is one in which we repent, and then give our allegiance to Lord Jesus, following Him. This is what the Scriptures keep teaching.
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Ligurian
Cro-Magnon
Ephesians 1:14 doesn't say redeemed.
"Let us take some time to identify the House of Israel. Here is a brief summary: From the sons of Jacob, surnamed Israel, sprang twelve tribes under David. They were united as one nation—Israel. After the death of Solomon, David’s son, the twelve tribes were divided into two nations.
The tribe of Judah split off from the nation of Israel in order to retain the king whom Israel had rejected, and Benjamin went with Judah. Those two tribes were together, Benjamin and Judah.
The new nation, formed with its capitol of Jerusalem, was known as the House of Judah. Its people were called Jews. The Northern Ten Tribes, who rejected Solomon’s son, became known as the House of Israel and their capitol later was Samaria. Whole books of the Old Testament are devoted to the power struggles between Israel and Judah, showing them as two separate nations."
Where Did The Original Apostles Go?
Matthew 21:23 And when He was come into the temple, the chief priests and the
elders of the people came unto Him as He was teaching...
21:28 "But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. 29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. 30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not. 31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father?" They say unto Him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the Kingdom of God before you.
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Ligurian
Cro-Magnon
Where does Paul teach the words "born again", setst777?
From what I remember of the new creation... it's not at all like what happens in the gospel where "born again" is actually used. In fact, at least one verse links "born again" with the Kingdom of Heaven... which is what Jesus taught as His gospel.
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Born again is a term of Lord Jesus, Peter, and James that Paul refers to as the:
New Creation (2 Corinthians 5:15-17),
New Life (Romans 6:1-6),
Regeneration (Titus 3:3-6)
Made Alive by the Spirit in us (Romans 8:9-10).
Blessings
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Fervent
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I'm not sure there are differences on what sola fide means, as much as a question of what the implications of it are. Of course, not all are genuine in their attempts to understand as many are simply looking for something that makes them feel good without challenging them, and others are looking for a means of having power over other human beings which will land them on one or the other side of the fence. Part of the problem is that salvation has been confused with justification, when in fact the salvation in the Bible is far closer to Theosis than a legal declaration. We are sanctified by grace as much as we are justified by it, and all of it by faith.
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Ligurian
Cro-Magnon
Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Since this is Paul's gospel... you believe 1 Corinthians 15:1-8, correct?
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Yes.
Ephesians 1:13-14 (WEB) 13 in whom you also, having heard the word of the truth, the Good News of your salvation—in whom, having also believed, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a pledge of our inheritance, to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of his glory.
The Spirit is the guarantee and pledge of inheritance to those who believe (continuous action) demonstrated by living and walking by the Spirit in us. The condition of the Guarantee is our continue faith unto the end.
IF we insult the Spirit of grace who dwells in us by deliberate sin, God will judge and punish more severely than a heathen.
Hebrews 10:26-30 (NIV)
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”
As you can see, God will Judge His people more severely than the non-Christian if they deliberately keep sinning, because they were saved – sanctified by the blood of the covenant – and, and insulted the Spirit in them, and so, should have known better.
Salvation is a guarantee by God by His Spirit in us, nevertheless, the saving work of God is conditional upon our faith, and remaining faithful, just as the Scriptures keep teaching us: (John 3:14-18; Romans 8:12-13; Galatians 6:7-9, Romans 11:22; Matthew 10:38; Matthew 24:42-44; John 15:10; 1 Corinthians 9:27; 2 Thessalonians 1:4-11; Hebrews 3:12-15; Hebrews 10:19-31; Colossians 1:21-24; 1 Timothy 4:16; 2 Peter 3:17; 1 John 2:3-6; Revelation 3:1-5; Revelation 3:11; Revelation 21:7-8), and so many more.
The Scriptures make plain to understand that faith is our responsibility before God, and that not all will remain faithful. The guarantee of the Spirit is ours by faith. Many will fall away and will not recover, but some will.
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Yes, 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 is that aspect of the Gospel which Paul refers to "as of first importance."
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Ligurian
Cro-Magnon
If Jesus rescued the whole world and saved them all, then what's the point of today? Why didn't Jesus just roll up the Heavens and drag us all to glory? God won't mind a bunch of law-breakers living with Him, right?
You won't see it if you won't do the research,
and instead, you rip a verse out of its context.
Finished: All that was necessary for
Jesus to become the Passover Lamb
John 19:28-30 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst. Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put [it] upon hyssop, and put [it] to His mouth. When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, "It is finished": and He bowed His head, and gave up the ghost.
That this scripture might be fulfilled:
Exodus 12:21 And Moses called all the elders of the children of Israel, and said to them, Go away and take to yourselves a lamb according to your kindreds, and slay the passover. 22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and having dipped it into some of the blood that is by the door, ye shall touch the lintel, and shall put it upon both door-posts, even of the blood which is by the door; but ye shall not go out every one from the door of his house till the morning. ... 26 And it shall come to pass, if your sons say to you, What is this service? 27 that ye shall say to them, "This passover is a sacrifice to the Lord, as He defended the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when He smote the Egyptians, but delivered our houses."
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Ligurian
Cro-Magnon
1 Corinthians 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
Where's Mary Magdalene in Paul's gospel?
Luke 24:10 It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary [the mother] of James, and other [women that were] with them, which told these things unto the apostles. 11 And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not. 12 Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.
Matthew 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first
day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the
sepulchre. ... 8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring His disciples word.
John 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it
was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from
the sepulchre. ... 4 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.
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Paul was specifically referring to the Disciples of Lord Jesus. Of course there were many others who saw Him as well. And A Paul did mention that Lord Jesus was seen by more than 500 at one time.
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Sure, why not? And while He’s at it why not just let satan and his demons in as well. Perhaps God will say “ya know what on second thought maybe we don’t need a hell after all, I don’t know what I was thinking”.
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Ligurian
Cro-Magnon
Using the ridiculous to make a point... and it finally sunk in. Because it seems like you don't know how to define people who don't have your mindset... so you do things like accusing them of reading commentaries... which is what seminary is actually all about. Get over pretending that I learned from man: That's not me, it's you.
And your other theme is just as wrong-headed... you act like the whole world belongs to Paul and those who believe Peter's gospel must be a "Paul rejector". Does a woman to whom a man never proposed also get called a rejector? No.
And that "wake up" theme of yours... Get over yourself.
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Ligurian
Cro-Magnon
Yeah, that tongues of fire thing in Acts.
"Mark doesn't identify this woman, but he uses a literary device that points us to the lady who is called Mary Magdalene in 15:40, 47, and 16:1, 9. Matthew tells the story much like Mark does, but likewise he does not identify the heroine (26:6-13). But John identifies her clearly (12:2-9)."
Mary Magdalene
Matthew 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this Gospel shall be preached in the whole world, [there] shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
Galatians 2:7-9
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Ligurian
Cro-Magnon
hmmm... Matthew 7:4
I don't really see how someone can love the things of the world AND be a commandment keeping legalist... the two things cancel each other out.
James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his works.
"a heretic's commentary on James"... you can't be talking about me, since you call me a 'legalistic commandment keeper', as though that's a curse or something.Because Jesus says He's my only teacher, and I keep that commandment... and these two things cancel each other out, as well. Can't really be reading what other people think James meant AND be keeping Matthew 23:8-10 and John 17:20.
A "dark light", really? (sigh)
Ooorr... they'd be a follower of the Kingdom Gospel, Galatians 2:7-9
Jesus to the Disciples given to Him by the Father
John 13-John 15:2 Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit He taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, He purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 16 Ye have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in My name, He may give it you.
Revelation 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name.
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
That's the grace gospel, Galatians 2:7-9
Not the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven.
Matthew 24:34-35, 1 John 2:4, Revelation 3:8-10
Revelation 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Matthew 11:29 Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy, and My burden is light.
Psalms 2:1 Wherefore did the heathen rage, and the nations imagine vain things? 2 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers gathered themselves together, against the Lord, and against His Christ; 3 saying, Let us break through Their bonds, and cast away Their yoke from us. 4 He that dwells in the heavens shall laugh them to scorn, and the Lord shall mock them. 5 Then shall He speak to them in His anger, and trouble them in His fury. 6 But I have been made king by Him on Sion His holy mountain, 7 declaring the ordinance of the Lord: the Lord said to Me, Thou art My Son, to-day have I begotten Thee. 8 Ask of Me, and I will give thee the heathen for Thine inheritance, and the ends of the earth for Thy possession. 9 Thou shalt rule them with a rod of iron; Thou shalt dash them in pieces as a potter’s vessel. 10 Now therefore understand, ye kings: be instructed, all ye that judge the earth. 11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice in Him with trembling. 12 Accept correction, lest at any time the Lord be angry, and ye should perish from the righteous way: whensoever His wrath shall be suddenly kindled, blessed are all they that trust in Him.LXX (this is prophecy, currently unfulfilled)
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Ligurian
Cro-Magnon
And God will have done a very big thing for no reason whatsoever. Because if they're predestined unto salvation, which is what the OSAS people read, then why did Jesus have to die at all?Sure, why not? And while He’s at it why not just let satan and his demons in as well. Perhaps God will say “ya know what on second thought maybe we don’t need a hell after all, I don’t know what I was thinking”.
But in the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven, believe is an action verb.
Otherwise "The Little Engine That Could" becomes "Can't Someone Else Do It?"
People believe what they want to believe and see what they expect to see. When they can't squint hard enough to make you just like them, the character assassination begins. I remember an old sitcom where a talk-radio woman is saying "she should feel bad about herself, she's going to hell" and the MSM had her chased screaming by her mother... An article I read yesterday about two sets of inquisitionists begs the question: why are the people with "good doctrine" murdering the people with "bad doctrine", and not the other way around? And Revelation 12:17 tells us the dragon makes war on those who keep the Commandments of God and hold the Testimony of Jesus, so it's pretty clear who has good doctrine in the end times. Some people must think they'll have a heads up and have time to make the switch... like the deathbed conversion theory.
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Personally I think the word faith doesn’t accurately describe the word pistis. I would say that it’s closer to devotion than faith because it involves faithfulness, fidelity, loyalty, and trustworthiness which is included in the definition of the Greek words pistis, pisteuo, and pistos.
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Ligurian
Cro-Magnon
Matthew 7:24-27 shows the two characteristics, which are symbolic of the two gospels of Galatians 2:7-9, which are for the two different peoples. Naturally, Paul is like you and thinks all people of Jacob are Jews... maybe he didn't remember the divided kingdom, either.
You follow Paul's gospel which never metions "born again." The process is entirely different because "Paul's gospel" is completely different from "Peter's gospel" to the circumcision. Even Paul knows the reason why:
Galatians 2:14-16
Anyway, Paul seems to have forgotten that Peter was never under the gospel of the gentiles. And Jesus never even implies that works aren't necesssary in the Kingdom... in fact, He states the opposite in no uncertain terms. Neither does James say the works are futile, since he calls the law a liberty... meaning freedom from sin is achieved by training. Anyone under the law in the Old Testament was able to be justified, or God wasted His time at Sinai, and a whole lot of people were promised something that could never happen. And that's not even the problem, according to the prophets. Because David sinned big-time, and repented, on his face, in tears. God wants to be merciful. But Judah/Benjamin built a temple.
Did every child but me hear, "Don't eat cookies before dinner"... and run for the cookie jar when mommie left the room? Isn't that what Paul says happened to him? Paul struggled with his nature. Did John? No. Did Nathanael? No. Did even Peter after he got over being afraid of dying? No. People want to say that genetics don't matter. I know for a fact that it does, or the stories in the Old Testament and that of my own life are huge coincidences. Even in the same family, one child will aways rebel. And one child was always the one that Jesus loved.
So Paul was sent to the gentiles, which he calls sinners... his story about the wretched man would actually make him the perfect steward to the gentiles who'd never been trained in self-control. And Peter went to that Israel part of the circumcision... which wasn't Judah's two tribes, leaving them for Paul to convert, if possible. Because genetics fit Peter for that Israel circumcision role, and it fit John and Nathanael et al, too.
So Paul says stay what you were when you were called. 1 Corinthians 7:18
Which is what I'm doing... being true to my nature. And this is why there are two different Gospels. Galatians 2:7-9
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