Salvation vs : service.

setst777 · Jul 2, 2021

Hi GOD Shines Forth!

So, do you still feel the Four Gospels contains no Gospel Message to us, and everything Lord Jesus taught in them, including The Great Commission, was only for the Jews under the Law? You did check that you agreed with that.

What do you think of the discussion so far?

Did you notice that Sidon dodged the following message every time, even though quoted three times?

setst777 said:
You are totally wrong. Lord Jesus was teaching the Gospel. Lord Jesus did not distinguish that His message was only only for the Jews, as He taught the same Message in Revelation.

For instance:

Revelation 3:1-5 (WEB)
1 I know your works, that you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up and keep the things that remain, which you were about to throw away, for I have found no works of yours perfected before my God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it and repent.
If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you. 4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that didn’t defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.
5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

And we know your teaching is false because all the Apostles taught the same thing.

Acts 26:19-20 (WEB) 19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to them of Damascus, at Jerusalem, and throughout all the country of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, doing works worthy of repentance.

Ephesians 5:3-7 (WEB)
3 But sexual immorality, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not even be mentioned among you, as becomes saints; 4 nor filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not appropriate; but rather giving of thanks.
5 Know this for sure, that no sexually immoral person, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words. For because of these things, the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Blessings

BNR32FAN · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
Jesus came not to the gentiles, but to the "house of Israel".

Also, Jesus can't be preaching the Cross to the House of Israel, when He has not died on it yet.

So, the Gospel, is.....Jesus on the Cross.
If He is not there yet, then He can't be talking about it as the "gospel" to the "House of Israel".
Those are all the verses you generally abuse, to try to teach your particular gospel.

John 3:16 is the gospel spoken by Jesus before His crucifixion.

setst777 · Jul 2, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
John 3:16 is the gospel spoken by Jesus before His crucifixion.

Exactly.

The Great Commission itself, which Sidon says was for the Jews under the Law specifically states that this message was to be preached to all nations.

Matthew 28:19-20 (WEB) 19 Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to obey all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

All nations does not just mean Jews.

As well, Lord Jesus states that, even though the Gospel was to be preached starting with Israel, that same Gospel was to be preached to the whole world.

John 10:16 (NIV)
16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

Luke 24:46-47 (WEB)
46 He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name to all the nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

The Lord's Supper itself is for the New Covenant, before Christ was crucified (Matthew 26:28).

Anyway, the whole teaching of Lord Jesus, His parables, admonitions, all that he preached to the people was the Gospel. We are to repent, and believe in Lord Jesus, following Him.

Ligurian · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
Salvation is God on the Cross.
If you want it, you go there.

So what do you think happened to people before the cross? Why did David say take not thy spirit from me? How was Noah considered righteous before the cross? You're one of those guys who think everyone was held in some kind of holding pen until the cross? It's either that or you're not interested at all in the gentiles being saved.

Ligurian · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
Jesus came not to the gentiles, but to the "house of Israel".

Also, Jesus can't be preaching the Cross to the House of Israel, when He has not died on it yet.

So, the Gospel, is.....Jesus on the Cross.
If He is not there yet, then He can't be talking about it as the "gospel" to the "House of Israel".
Those are all the verses you generally abuse, to try to teach your particular gospel.

It's almost heartwarming to see you climb aboard the "different gospels" train, Sidon. But you really shouldn't be ragging people for the same thing you've been doing every day.

BNR32FAN said:
John 3:16 is the gospel spoken by Jesus before His crucifixion.

Ding Ding Ding.
Which makes Paul's gospel to the gentiles... pretty much for a specific time period, too.

Because the gospel after Jesus' Resurrection, and before the end, is this one:

Matthew 24:14 And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

So when exactly is the correct time to be preaching this Gospel of the Kingdom?
I'm saying now.

BNR32FAN · Jul 2, 2021

setst777 said:
Exactly.

The Great Commission itself, which Sidon says was for the Jews under the Law specifically states that this message was to be preached to all nations.

Matthew 28:19-20 (WEB) 19 Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to obey all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

All nations does not just mean Jews.

As well, Lord Jesus states that, even though the Gospel was to be preached starting with Israel, that same Gospel was to be preached to the whole world.

John 10:16 (NIV)
16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

Luke 24:46-47 (WEB)
46 He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name to all the nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

The Lord's Supper itself is for the New Covenant, before Christ was crucified (Matthew 26:28).

Anyway, the whole teaching of Lord Jesus, His parables, admonitions, all that he preached to the people was the Gospel. We are to repent, and believe in Lord Jesus, following Him.

Well according to Sidon the Great Commission failed as soon as the apostles died because after that the very disciples of the apostles and the churches they established apparently all conspired together to preach a false gospel and get this, they even endured persecution, beatings, imprisonment and martyrdom all to spread this “false gospel” that they conjured up on their own. And the best part is that no one objected to this idea, there was no resistance whatsoever throughout the entire church. How unbelievably amazing is that?

BNR32FAN · Jul 2, 2021

Ligurian said:
It's almost heartwarming to see you climb aboard the "different gospels" train, Sidon. But you really shouldn't be ragging people for the same thing you've been doing every day.

Ding Ding Ding.
Which makes Paul's gospel to the gentiles... pretty much for a specific time period, too.

Because the gospel after Jesus' Resurrection, and before the end, is this one:

Matthew 24:14 And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

So when exactly is the correct time to be preaching this Gospel of the Kingdom?
I'm saying now.

Yeah I’m saying from the time Jesus began His ministry until judgement day.

Ligurian · Jul 2, 2021

setst777 said:
You are totally wrong. Lord Jesus was teaching the Gospel. Lord Jesus did not distinguish that His message was only only for the Jews, as He taught the same Message in Revelation.

Jesus came unto His own, and they tried to kill Him early on, so Jesus stopped walking in Jewry John 7. It's not the Jews that Jesus came unto, it's lost sheep. Because He says He came to call sinners to repentence, not the Jews who were keeping the sacrificial system.

Ligurian · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
All your verses are talking to the house of Israel, before Christ died on the Cross.
The one verse you posted that is related to the "time of the gentiles", is when we are given the great commission.

So, as i told you , you can't apply Jesus's verses that he's speaking to the JEWS, as "the house of Israel",
Before He dies.... as doctrine for the body of Christ, in the time of the Gentiles.

Try not to do that 20 more times today.

John 1:11 He came unto His own, and His own received Him not.
John 7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for He would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill Him.
Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.
Matthew 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw [it], they said unto His disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? 12 But when Jesus heard [that], He said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13 But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Therefore, Jesus is not preaching to the Jews.
The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel are not Jews.
The Pharisees were righteous under the sacrificial system.

Ligurian · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
That is John saying....>>"if we say we have no sin", and he's not talking about himself, he's talking to those he's talking to about that situation.

I keep telling you that you don't know Kingdom Gospel and you keep proving me right.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and His word is not in us.
(We confess our sins: Matthew 5:23-24, and forgive others: Matthew 18:22)

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

You should steer clear of 1st John... unless you really want people to make this connection.

Ligurian · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
Be serious now.

I get lots of "likes" here., from people who understand the CROSS.

My Threads are extremely well read, and there is only the handful that are caught in the net of self saving and self righteousness, who keep yelling about it on my Threads.
This is always the case when im on a new forum giving Jesus all the Credit due Him for Salvation.
See, a legalist takes a painful hit when i dont give their savior = self effort and commandment keeping, the praise they want it to have.....
This makes them angry.

Now to your other issue....

You've not been taught very well, the NT.
That is not your fault, utterly, because you dont yet understand what is not true.
You were taught that if it has a pulpit and its called a Priest, or similar then they are always telling you the truth.
Well, guess what.........
Im the one you finally found who is showing you what you need to believe.

See, here is the thing about truth.

Truth and untruth went swimming
When Truth's back was turned, untruth stole Truth's clothes.
Now, untruth parades about as truth, and TRUTH goes about as the naked Truth.

See that?

Here is what im showing you.
When you find yourself in the endless denominational maze of theology, and in the bottomless confusion pit of "church fathers", and thousands of denominations, and want to know what is RIGHT ..what is TRUE.

Here is how you find that out, setst77.

You go to Paul and stay there, and when you decide to do that, i can help you.

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and
went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which
keep the commandments of God,
and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.(Revelation 12:17)

Sidon · Jul 2, 2021

Ligurian said:
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and
went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which
keep the commandments of God,
and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.(Revelation 12:17)

Matt 28

""And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."""

Sidon · Jul 2, 2021

Ligurian said:
I keep telling you that you don't know Kingdom Gospel and you keep proving me right.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and His word is not in us.
(We confess our sins: Matthew 5:23-24, and forgive others: Matthew 18:22)

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

These are not 2 different Gospels..
in John 1 He is preaching the Gospel.

Notice that He first says....>"if we confess our sins, God is faithful to forgive"..
So, that is not talking to the born again as their sins are already forgiven.

and then...

IN John 2:4 you note that John is talking about commandment keeping, vs confessing sin.
That is not a gospel.
That is an accusation.

Sidon · Jul 2, 2021

Ligurian said:
Therefore, Jesus is not preaching to the Jews.
The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel are not Jews.
.

The House of Israel is indeed the Jews.
"Jesus came to his OWN, and his OWN, received Him Not".

Jesus the Jew, came to his Own. = Jews.
Notice that the Mother of Jesus is not an American.

Sidon · Jul 2, 2021

Ligurian said:
So what do you think happened to people before the cross? Why did David say take not thy spirit from me? How was Noah considered righteous before the cross? You're one of those guys who think everyone was held in some kind of holding pen until the cross? It's either that or you're not interested at all in the gentiles being saved.

People before the Cross were not born again.
= "Abraham Bosom".

Also, Jesus refers to it, when he told the dying Thief......"today you will be with me in paradise".

Ligurian · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
You are teaching some devout legalism there, bnr32fan.
[...]
Jesus said """i came for the unrighteous."""
Never does He say...>"try to clean up and then i'll have you".

Don't you care what Jesus said? Here, let me help you, Sidon.

Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Jesus even pronounces the Galilean Apostles clean.

John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

Sidon · Jul 2, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
John 3:16 is the gospel spoken by Jesus before His crucifixion.

Let me help you understand something about the Gospels.

They are the eyewitness history/account of Christ's Ministry.

Also, Jesus is not the one speaking in the verse that says that """God so loved the world.""
And how do you know?
Its because the verse says....."and whosoever believes in Him".

So, Jesus would not refer to Himself as "him".
He would have said...""Me"..

"all scripture is given by inspiration of God".

Sidon · Jul 2, 2021

Ligurian said:
Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Jesus even pronounces the Galilean Apostles clean.
John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

There is no Cross in Matthew 13.

Also Chapter 15 is talking to apostles, and much of that chapter is symbolic.
You'll note this once you hit the "branches" and the "vine", and the "abiding".
Also, once you get into vs 20 and keep going you find Jesus talking about those who hated Him.
So, its not all symbolic.

So, here is how we rightly divide.
We dont take verses aimed at apostles, or aimed at Israel, or aimed at the Great Trib, and misapply them to ourselves.
If you stop doing that, then a lot of your theological confusion will be resolved.

BNR32FAN · Jul 2, 2021

Ligurian said:
Jesus came unto His own, and they tried to kill Him early on, so Jesus stopped walking in Jewry John 7. It's not the Jews that Jesus came unto, it's lost sheep. Because He says He came to call sinners to repentence, not the Jews who were keeping the sacrificial system.

Yeah I don’t see Jesus making any distinction in who He preached to. I mean the first place He went to was Samaria which the Samaritans were despised by the Jews. Granted they were descendants of Joseph but they were not considered to be Jews.

BNR32FAN · Jul 2, 2021

Sidon said:
Let me help you understand something about the Gospels.

They are the eyewitness history/account of Christ's Ministry.

Also, Jesus is not the one speaking in the verse that says that """God so loved the world.""
And how do you know?
Its because the verse says....."and whosoever believes in Him".

So, Jesus would not refer to Himself as "him".
He would have said...""Me"..

"all scripture is given by inspiration of God".

Do you know the definition of the word “gospel”? Being a seminary student I’m confident that you do. So by definition is John 3:16 not the gospel?

Salvation vs : service.

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