It is permissive for Christians to eat meat today

Fervent · Jul 2, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
There is nothing in Galatians or Colossians that deletes the 4th commandment.

Lets look at the verse again:

Colossians 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

God's laws was not contrary to us this is a direct reference to the law of Moses that was written by Moses Deuteronomy 31:24, contained curses "contrary" Deuteronomy 29:20-21 and was placed outside the ark Deut 31:26 because it was temporary Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 8:13

God's laws is perfect Psalms 19:7, Holy Romans 7:12, Love 1 Timothy 1:5, Righteous Romans 8:4, Pure Psalms 19:8 and ETERNAL Psalms 89:34, Mathew 5:18

There is more than one Sabbath in the bible and one refers to foods and drink like in context to Colossians 2:16 that is part of the law of Moses found in Leviticus 23 the annual feast days and the other is part of an eternal covenant Psalms 89:34 and is a commandment of God Exodus 20:8-11 which has nothing to do with food or drink. It definitely did not end at the cross like our Savior promised Exodus 31:16 because it will continue to be God' s only holy day and the day we are to worship our Savior for eternity Isaiah 66:23. Jesus kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16, the disciples kept the Sabbath Acts 18:4 and its sign between our Savior and His people Ezekiial 20:20 God bless

You're twisting yourself into pretzels and creating divisions in the law that do not exist. Circumcision is representative of the whole law, 10 commandments included, not simply portions of the law. No where is the law divided up within the Bible, if some of it must be kept all of it must be kept and to break a single ordinance is to break the whole law. Insisting on its keeping doesn't make you righteous, it makes you a lawbreaker.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 2, 2021

Fervent said:
You're twisting yourself into pretzels and creating divisions in the law that do not exist. Circumcision is representative of the whole law, 10 commandments included, not simply portions of the law. No where is the law divided up within the Bible, if some of it must be kept all of it must be kept and to break a single ordinance is to break the whole law. Insisting on its keeping doesn't make you righteous, it makes you a lawbreaker.

Not at all. Maybe this will make it easier for you.

How many laws did God personally write with His own finger and on stone? How many laws was placed inside the ark of the Covenant and placed in the Most Holy of God's Temple because of their significance?

Do you think breaking God's laws makes you more righteous than keeping God's laws? I do not keep God's commandments to be righteous, I keep them because I love My savior and this is His will for us. Do you think we show love to God when we worship other gods, vain His name, bow down to idols and break His Sabbath? Do we show love to our neighbor when we steal, or covet or murder?

The Liturgist · Jul 2, 2021

Fervent said:
I should clarify, I agree that as you have presented there is a distinction between the veneration of saints including Mary and true worship. My objection is that the practice, as I have seen it, often fails to make that distinction to those who do not engage with the theological elements which is the majority of parishoners in a church. While the official position creates a distinction, many I have intereacted with from the Catholic church do engage in Mary worship out of an ignorance of the official teachings combined with the excesses of Marian devotion that have been allowed to appeal to goddess cultures. This is especially prevalent among Hispanics.

Ok, I see what you are talking about, and I am inclined to agree this problem does occur, due to poor catechesis, and while Pope Benedict XVI cared a lot about correcting it, Pope Francis doesn’t seem to care, which is a worry. Some catechists like @Root of Jesse are clearly on the ball, focused on the basics of the faith, and some aren’t.

The main case in point is actually not in Latin America but Medjugorje, in Herzegovina, where the local Fransiscan province, which was supposed to transfer control of all of the local parishes to the dioceses after that land was liberated from the Turks by Austria-Hungary 150 years ago, has held on to the parish of St. James in the town of Medjugorje by promoting an alleged apparition of the Virgin Mary to some teenagers who admitted to using marijuana, and not one of whom has had a vocation as a monk, nun or priest (one entered seminary but dropped out), and all of this in opposition to the local bishop, which violates all of the ancient canons of the Church that the Orthodox still follow, but that the RCC revised or replaced several times, although my understanding is that the situation is still uncanonical and the local Franciscans have been there uncanonically. But whereas Pope Benedict ordered an inquiry and appeared minded to shut it down, Pope Francis has allowed it to continue.

Fervent · Jul 2, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Not at all. Maybe this will make it easier for you.

How many laws did God personally write with His own finger and on stone? How many laws was placed inside the ark of the Covenant and placed in the Most Holy of God's Temple because of their significance?

Do you think breaking God's laws makes you more righteous than keeping God's laws? I do not keep God's commandments to be righteous, I keep them because I love My savior and this is His will for us. Do you think we show love to God when we worship other gods, vain His name, bow down to images and break His Sabbath? Do we show love to our neighbor when we steal, or covet or murder?

Where is this distinction you're making made in the Bible? Where does the Bible say that the laws written on stone are more important than those given directly by God's mouth? You're making arbitrary distinctions that are nothing more than ad hoc reasonings and have no basis in what's written, and is in fact contrary to what is written. To make one law more significant than another is to make yourself a judge of the law not a doer of the law, and placing yourself under the law is to treat the blood of Christ as unholy. Instead of recognizing your savior as your savior you are in fact saying "I can save myself through my performance and law keeping" which makes you a law breaker.

The Liturgist · Jul 2, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Not at all. Maybe this will make it easier for you.

How many laws did God personally write with His own finger and on stone? How many laws was placed inside the ark of the Covenant and placed in the Most Holy of God's Temple because of their significance?

Do you think breaking God's laws makes you more righteous than keeping God's laws? I do not keep God's commandments to be righteous, I keep them because I love My savior and this is His will for us. Do you think we show love to God when we worship other gods, vain His name, bow down to images and break His Sabbath? Do we show love to our neighbor when we steal, or covet or murder?

How many laws did God speak with His own voice so that everyone could hear them? And which Person of the Holy Trinity has a finger with which to write?

The Liturgist · Jul 2, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Colossians 2:14 speaks of ordinances, not commandments. There are two different Sabbaths in the bible. One that is special to God that started from Creation Genesis 2:2-3 and a commandment of God Exodus 20:8-11 that is part of an eternal covenant.
God bless

That covenant was broken by Israel, which is why the Only Begotten Som and incarnate Word of God said at the Institution of Holy Communion “This is my blood of the New Covenant.” The old covenant was sealed with stone tablets which were later destroyed, while the new commandment is sealed with the blood of the Word of God shed on the Cross, which endures forever.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 2, 2021

Fervent said:
Where is this distinction you're making made in the Bible? Where does the Bible say that the laws written on stone are more important than those given directly by God's mouth? You're making arbitrary distinctions that are nothing more than ad hoc reasonings and have no basis in what's written, and is in fact contrary to what is written. To make one law more significant than another is to make yourself a judge of the law not a doer of the law, and placing yourself under the law is to treat the blood of Christ as unholy. Instead of recognizing your savior as your savior you are in fact saying "I can save myself through my performance and law keeping" which makes you a law breaker.

The distinction between God's laws written personally by God and the laws of Moses written by Moses is spelled out in the scriptures. I will spend some time a little later when I have more time writing the differences although I already provided a lot of scripture references for you in my previous post. Many when they get to Paul's writings assume they are referring to God's laws when they are actually referring to the laws of Moses.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 2, 2021

The Liturgist said:
That covenant was broken by Israel, which is why the Only Begotten Som and incarnate Word of God said at the Institution of Holy Communion “This is my blood of the New Covenant.” The old covenant was sealed with stone tablets which were later destroyed, while the new commandment is sealed with the blood of the Word of God shed on the Cross, which endures forever.

Are you saying it's okay to vain God's name, or worship other gods now?

The Liturgist · Jul 2, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
The distinction between God's laws written personally by God and the laws of Moses written by Moses is spelled out in the scriptures. I will spend some time a little later when I have more time writing the differences although I already provided a lot of scripture references for you in my previous post. Many when they get to Paul's writings assume they are referring to God's laws when they are actually referring to the laws of Moses.

You skipped right over his main point, which is that the inherent
authority of anything spoken recently by Jesus Christ, who is The Word of God. @Fervent is completely right on this issue.

XZQ13 · Jul 2, 2021

I dont understand why any Christian would take the chance of supporting the death industry. How can you know that evil forces are not conspiring to destroy you by making you do evil as well? I was recommended by spirit not to eat meat 8 years ago.

The Liturgist · Jul 2, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Are you saying it's okay to vain God's name, or worship other gods now?

I won’t answer that question until you clarify your position on whether or that spoken by Jesus Christ has equal authority to the Ten Commandments.

The Liturgist · Jul 2, 2021

XZQ13 said:
I dont understand why any Christian would take the chance of supporting the death industry. How can you know that evil forces are not conspiring to destroy you by making you do evil as well? I was recommended by spirit not to eat meat 8 years ago.

Jesus ate meat, so I don’t have a problem with it. The Apostles in Acts 15 expressly permitted it, with the exception of the drinking of blood or the eating of things strangled.

Fervent · Jul 2, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
The distinction between God's laws written personally by God and the laws of Moses written by Moses is spelled out in the scriptures. I will spend some time a little later when I have more time writing the differences although I already provided a lot of scripture references for you in my previous post. Many when they get to Paul's writings assume they are referring to God's laws when they are actually referring to the laws of Moses.

The laws of Moses? Where do you get that a law given by Moses was not given by the Lord? And where does Paul make such a distinction? It seems you're simply trying to justify for yourself doing exactly what is opposite of what is written.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 2, 2021

The Liturgist said:
I won’t answer that question until you clarify your position on whether or that spoken by Jesus Christ has equal authority to the Ten Commandments.

You are not making sense.

God spoke the Ten Commandments and is His written will for His children.

God is our Creator and Savior and has authority over everything.

That's why when we obey God and keep His Sabbath holy Exodus 20:8-11 we are obeying God's authority and not traditions that Jesus warned us about. Mathew 15:9

Fervent · Jul 2, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
You are not making sense.

God spoke the Ten Commandments and is His written will for His children.

God is our Creator and Savior and has authority over everything.

That's why when we obey God and keep His Sabbath holy Exodus 20:8-11 we are obeying God's authority and not traditions that Jesus warned us about. Mathew 15:9

Treating the Sabbath as an obligation of the law defeats the purpose of the Sabbath by diminishing the act.

As Jesus said, the Sabbath is for man not man for the Sabbath. To keep it because we are obligated is not to keep it at all, just as there is no romance in getting flowers for a loved one because of a sense of duty.(It's valentines day honey, what choice did I have but get you flowers?)

Anthony2019 · Jul 2, 2021

For me, the idea of becoming vegetarian would mean confining myself to a life of culinary boredom.

But each to their own.

Give me a freshly cooked T-bone steak or rack of ribs, then I'll be as happy as Larry.....

SabbathBlessings · Jul 2, 2021

Fervent said:
Treating the Sabbath as an obligation of the law defeats the purpose of the Sabbath by diminishing the act.

Does this theory also apply to lying?

Fervent said:
As Jesus said, the Sabbath is for man not man for the Sabbath. To keep it because we are obligated is not to keep it at all, just as there is no romance in getting flowers for a loved one because of a sense of duty.(It's valentines day honey, what choice did I have but get you flowers?)

Jesus said the Sabbath is made for man Mark 2:27 which means me and you. It is our moral obligation out of our love to keep God's Sabbath holy and all of the other commandments. God never said "If you feel like it, keep My Sabbath holy."

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

We have free fill and God is not going to force you to obey Him. It's been fun chatting but I really need to run. God bless

Fervent · Jul 2, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Does this theory also apply to lying?

Jesus said the Sabbath is made for man Mark 2:27 which means me and you. It is our moral obligation out of our love to keep God's Sabbath holy and all of the other commandments. God never said "If you feel like it, keep My Sabbath holy."

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

We have free fill and God is not going to force you to obey Him. It's been fun chatting but I really need to run. God bless

Love knows no obligations, it cannot be commanded or demanded or else it is not love. When Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man what were the circumstances? Was He instructing His disciples to keep it meticulously, or answering the Pharisee's who accused Him of not keeping it because He did not do so according to law? That you're trying to turn that statement into a statement of law demonstrates the deceptive manner in which you handle Scripture.

SabbathBlessings · Jul 2, 2021

Fervent said:
Love knows no obligations, it cannot be commanded or demanded or else it is not love. When Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man what were the circumstances? Was He instructing His disciples to keep it meticulously, or answering the Pharisee's who accused Him of not keeping it because He did not do so according to law? That you're trying to turn that statement into a statement of law demonstrates the deceptive manner in which you handle Scripture.

Your argument is with Jesus because He tells us that is how we express our love to Him, though our obedience.

John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments
John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Fervent · Jul 2, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Your argument is with Jesus because He tells us that is how we express our love to Him, though our obedience.

John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments
John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Not at all, my argument is with you taking snippets of Scripture out of context to act in defiance of what the whole witness of Scripture presents. John 14 and John 15 are not obligations, they are promises and they do not include piecemealing the Sinai covenant and keeping the parts that are convenient while discarding the parts that are distasteful. To resurrect what has been put aside is not an act of obedience but disobedience.

It is permissive for Christians to eat meat today

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