Personal responsibility and school lunches

iluvatar5150

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You don't see a problem in parents being irresponsible? The best practical solution is for parents to take responsibility for their children and their children's nutritional needs. Placing unpalatable as well as unhealthy food in front of them and pretending they will eat it and be properly nourished instead of discarding it is hardly a practical solution.

2/3 of American adults are overweight; 1/2 of them (i.e. 1/3 of adults) are obese. 19% of children are obese. A not insignificant number of people complained about an attempt by a Democratic first lady to make government-provided lunches more healthy.

The practical solution you propose of parents taking responsibility for their children's nutritional needs is obviously not happening.

What's perceived as "unpalatable" is learned. Asian countries eat all kinds of stuff that westerners find disgusting. I think ranch dressing and most of what Cracker Barrel sells are gross, but that opinion is liable to get me ostracized in the south. IIRC, kids were throwing out apples and other fruit - that's not the fault of the schools (who do share blame for other, unappealing preparations), but of the kids.

"There is always more than one thing happening in every situation."

Many of those areas are "food deserts" in which healthy foods are hours of travel away. And most of them are in apartments that don't have efficient kitchens. And many of them are working long hours or multiple jobs combined with long public transportation commutes. And healthy food is more expensive, grape for grape, apple for apple, than packaged junk food.

I'm always amazed at how expensive grapes are. Per-pound, they're not too bad, but they're all water, so the weight adds up quickly. One bag can easily run upwards of $8-9.
 
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RDKirk

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To this day I seldom eat baloney. Why? because I had a baloney sandwich, an apple and a bag of chips every stinking day for 13 years of elementary, middle and high school.

Baloney and mayo sandwich -
Baloney and Mustard sandwich -
Baloney, mayo and potato chip sandwich -
Baloney, pickle and onion sandwich -
Baloney and grape jam sandwich - (it was actually good)

I think the difference is that we lead a very sedentary lifestyle.

I walked about a half mile each way to school five days a week, when I got old enough I rode my bike. When it rained I wore boots and a rain jacket. We would get home and do our homework, go play until 5, have dinner and then go back outside until the street lights came on. Saturdays and Sundays we were moving 10 plus hours a day.

It is a completely different world today.

It's never just one thing happening. A more sedentary lifestyle isn't even the major thing. People can't exercise their way out of a bad diet.

The food supply itself is different. Not even baloney today is the same baloney of 30 years ago. Fifty years ago, a McDonald's hamburger was made from locally sourced, grass-fed beef. Today, food is designed to induce more eating, at the least cost, with less real nutrition, and zero concern for long-term effects.

Eating patterns are different--how often during the day a person ingests calories counts. Fifty years ago, people ingested calories only three or four times a day; today people commonly ingest calories every waking hour. Lifestyles and working patterns are different, and those count. Eating while under stress is conducive to fat storage; that happened far less often years when business didn't allow people to eat at their desks than today.

The pundits are currently touting the "Mediterranean Diet." Well, beyond discerning which Mediterranean Diet they may be talking about (Spanish? Italian? Greek? Egyptian?)--there is always more than one thing happening!

Even if a person in America tried to eat a "Mediterranean Diet," he would still get fat if he's sourcing American foods and still living an American lifestyle (which is more than exercise). Most people living on the Med don't, for instance, eat at their desks, being under stress, and they don't ingest calories every waking hour (which includes sugary coffees and sodas). More often, they go home or take long lunches, having plenty of time to decompress, laugh with friends and family, et cetera, during meals.

Eating under stress is a particularly bad problem. Americans tend to use food to comfort stress...which is the precisely wrong thing to do.

What we need to do is what Jesus prescribed: Prayer (meditation for you secular folk) and fasting. Don't eat under stress, skip eating and meditate.
 
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TLK Valentine

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comana

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This stems from the cancer thread because I find this topic really interesting.

Obviously healthy food that tastes great would be ideal but we're not there yet. However, I think the bigger problem is that the schools are responsible for the children's nutrition to the extent that they are in the first place.
There is plenty of healthy food that tastes great but it is competing against decades of the food industry training our tastes to prefer processed foods loaded with sugar and salt. Children are often raised on this type of diet and it is passed down the generations.

Schools gave our children most of the day, 5 days a week. This is an excellent opportunity to engage children with healthier food choices. Age appropriate cooking classes let children learn food preparation/cooking and would be much more engaging and meaningful that a change of food offerings in the cafeteria alone.
 
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keith99

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"There is always more than one thing happening in every situation."

Many of those areas are "food deserts" in which healthy foods are hours of travel away. And most of them are in apartments that don't have efficient kitchens. And many of them are working long hours or multiple jobs combined with long public transportation commutes. And healthy food is more expensive, grape for grape, apple for apple, than packaged junk food.

I'm not so sure that healthy food is more expensive in general. Especially if one shops well, buying the healthy food on sale this week.

But your point is spot on in 'food deserts'.

I think it is also worth pointing out that as a part of lacking efficient kitchens the lack of freezer space is significant. No picking up 5 pounds of butter when it is at $2.50 a pound. (The current sale price at 2 local stores. One a major chain, the other has had it as low as $1.99 in the last six months). No buying 10-20 pounds of chicken quarters at 2 pounds for 99 cents. Only as much as they will eat withing a couple of days.

Packaged food that will not spoil bacomes far more attractive when there is no way to store healthy food. A nasty positive feedback loop. The oasis stores in the desert then stock stuff that will not spoil. E.g. packaged food.
 
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Sodafox

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Is it fair to consider - in a nation - all children all of our responsibility? All people all of our responsibility?

(I wonder where that conversation leads haha).

Personally, I prefer more freedom than less which is what this comes down to. If one wants to be taken care of then the caretakers should get a say in how that care is administered. I don't really want to impose what I believe is right in someone else but that means they need to take responsibly for their own life. Same as I want to do what I think is right even if I have to struggle with the consequences of those decisions whatever they may be.
 
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grasping the after wind

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And so your default is "tough love," which demands little or nothing of the "lover" and has the added benefit of seeming justified and self-righteous.

The small government, small heart solution.

I don't do a default . I examine the facts and come to conclusions based upon them and the assumptions that I consider self evident. I don't equate authoritarianism with a big heart. I also said not a thing close to being considered "tough love". I don't think it is unreasonable or unkind to expect people that bring children into the world to take responsibility for those children's welfare. I do think it is unreasonable and unfair to expect strangers to do that for one.

Ar least they have statistical analysis to back it up.

They do not have any statistical analysis to back up the silly assertion that marriage is a middle class construct. Marriage having existed much longer than the notion or existence of any middle class would seem to rule out the idea that it is a middle class construct.


Keeping children hungry to prevent single pregnancy (when there are many medical means to prevent conception, many opposed by churches) seems sillier, and certainly more cruel.

It sure would seem extremely silly to expect one would lead to the other. How could keeping children hungry prevent single pregnancy. Preventing single pregnancy might well be a way to keep many children from being born into a situation where they become hungry due to irresponsible people being their parents. In that way one might reduce the number of children who are hungry in the world. As you point out, there are many medical means to prevent conception and there are also many other ways to be assured one does not become pregnant that do not require a physicians assistance. Refusing to take advantage of any of those avenues, when they are readily available and in some cases covered completely by insurance or in others being given out free of charge or totally without monetary cost , seems irresponsible don't you think? I do not know that any churches oppose every means of contraception. I believe there is one method that every church approves of. Most churches have no stand against several means. I really don't see anything cruel about asking parents to care for their own children or asking people to be responsible for their own actions.
 
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mala

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In what way is this a problem?

We could insist that each child's parent(s) be solely responsible, but for those whose aren't, such insistence would just punish the child. What is the best practical solution?
have the hungry children eat the sated ones who will be weighed down by the food in their stomachs.
 
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grasping the after wind

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Taste is taught. What children today are taught is how to eat foods explicitly and deliberately designed to be addictive to the palate, yet devoid of substantive nutritional value.

Moreover, the government is hand-in-glove with that process. It's one of the reasons the corn lobby is so powerful and corn products are in so many foods...not to mention gasoline. Back in the 70s, the corn industry (which is the bulk as well of the sugar industry) won a decisive victory against the beef industry and, lo, the current FDA "food pyramid" was born. Coincidentally--or maybe not so coincidentally--obesity and type-2 diabetes rates in the US began to climb at the same time.

Nothing there I disagree with. Which is why I doo not understand why anyone would want to trust the government on issues of nutrition or environmental policy.
 
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hislegacy

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I would debate it is 100% effective, or that it is for everyone.

If we are speaking about becoming pregnant, not having intercourse is absolutely 100% effective.

"There is always more than one thing going on in any situation."

Your remark indicates you're only concerned about people spending money on vices instead of food, as though that one thing would solve the problem.

you have a four year old. You have enough money to either purchase food or a case of beer. What does a good parent do?

let me put it another way.

you have a four year old. You can spend money on cable tv or food for your child. What does a good parent do?
 
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grasping the after wind

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"There is always more than one thing happening in every situation."

Many of those areas are "food deserts" in which healthy foods are hours of travel away. And most of them are in apartments that don't have efficient kitchens. And many of them are working long hours or multiple jobs combined with long public transportation commutes. And healthy food is more expensive, grape for grape, apple for apple, than packaged junk food.

I am unaware of anyplace in the US where healthy food is hours of travel away. I am also unaware of any apartments without a kitchen that is serviceable except perhaps in government run housing. If you have examples of these things I would be happy to be made aware of them. Healthy food is for the most part cheaper lb. for lb. than junk food. Food deserts do exist in that fresh fruits and vegetables are not available within a certain distance but in my experience not hours away from some neighborhoods . I suspect that this is true as a matter of lack of demand rather than purposeful constriction of supply.

One of the biggest travesties I have run across is charities claiming they are responding to food deserts that then deliver the same kind of canned, boxed over pre processed food. corn , grain and sugar filled products that is available within minutes of where they are distributing it.
There are wonderful people doing great work in providing farmer's markets and community gardens to assist actual food desert areas, so these providers of junk food in disguise are not only not helping but taking resources that might be used to provide actual healthy food for people.
 
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Confused-by-christianity

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you have a four year old. You have enough money to either purchase food or a case of beer. What does a good parent do?

let me put it another way.

you have a four year old. You can spend money on cable tv or food for your child. What does a good parent do?
Ha - You’re stuffed. If your choices are between food and beer - you’re basically going down financially. You’re going into debt sooner or later - sounds like a slow decent into poverty to me.

btw - the “ha” wasn’t me laughing at peoples misfortunes - I actually feel really bad for them
 
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Fantine

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One problem is that your idea punishes the children, not the parents. And good education is the pathway out of poverty for them. Hungry children don't learn well, which is why charities send the hungriest home with healthy snacks on the weekend in our state.

Most food banks need items with long shelf lifes. On our town, the regional food bank occasionally has chicken giveaways or fresh veggie giveaways but they have to be picked up in a short time window.

Your idea about abstinence is similar. Make birth control unavailable and punish the children for their parents' sexual activity.

Draconian policies do not result in abstinent parents. High teen pregnancy goes hand in hand with draconian policies.
 
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keith99

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To this day I seldom eat baloney. Why? because I had a baloney sandwich, an apple and a bag of chips every stinking day for 13 years of elementary, middle and high school.

Baloney and mayo sandwich -
Baloney and Mustard sandwich -
Baloney, mayo and potato chip sandwich -
Baloney, pickle and onion sandwich -
Baloney and grape jam sandwich - (it was actually good)

I think the difference is that we lead a very sedentary lifestyle.

I walked about a half mile each way to school five days a week, when I got old enough I rode my bike. When it rained I wore boots and a rain jacket. We would get home and do our homework, go play until 5, have dinner and then go back outside until the street lights came on. Saturdays and Sundays we were moving 10 plus hours a day.

It is a completely different world today.

These days I would not let a kid in my family walk to school.

I happen to ride by bike for excercise and a few times I have gone by schools when they are either starting or ending. The parents coming to pick up or drop off their kids are flat out unsafe for any kid walking or riding.

Out of a dozen or elementary schools I ride past there is only one exception. That one has a back way in that should be safe. But I'd still want to check that back way to be sure.
 
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mark46

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Lots of uninsured and underinsured. You don't get screenings if your policy has a $6000 deductible.
.

I guess that we disagree with the basic definition of insurance. I pay my medical insurance once a month. Is that expected to cover all my costs? If so, then it isn't "insurance" at all. It is a method to pay for medical costs.

For decades, we each decide how much risk to take. Some indeed prefer to pay for almost all medical costs out of pocket. In this case, they buy insurance for only extraordinary costs. Some medical professionals charge less for those who pay cash. There are testing services that do the same. I have Medicare. I CHOOSE to pay for a supplemental policy with no deductibles. The monthly costs are relatively high. I have almost no medical costs. My brother CHOOSES not to have a supplemental policy. He has significant out of pocket costs.

I presume that your concern is government-provided health care for the poor. IMO, that is not really an issue of insurance. It is an issue of making sure the poorest among us can afford medical coverage. Under Medicare, there are managed care options that do much of this. Of course, these plans are heavily subsidized.
 
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hislegacy

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Draconian policies do not result in abstinent parents. High teen pregnancy goes hand in hand with draconian policies.

High teen pregnancy goes hand in hand with a sever lack of righteousness.
 
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TLK Valentine

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If we are speaking about becoming pregnant, not having intercourse is absolutely 100% effective.



you have a four year old. You have enough money to either purchase food or a case of beer. What does a good parent do?

let me put it another way.

you have a four year old. You can spend money on cable tv or food for your child. What does a good parent do?

If the child doesn't have food, could it be for reasons other than bad parenting?
 
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