Does God exist in a timeless heaven?

Carl Emerson

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When Jesus said "before Abraham was I AM" he didn't say 'I WAS' this would seem to signify continuous present is part of His nature.

Then there is...
2 Peter 3:8
But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

Again this verse seems to indicate God's experience of time is both instantaneous and encompassing and not linear as we know it.

Then there is eternal life which for the truely saved starts now along with entering His eternal rest.

And lastly the Cross as a timeless event anchored in History but active for all believers in any moment of time.

So you comment please - Is God constrained by time?
 
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GallagherM

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I believe according to this scripture ; Carl

Isaiah 9:
6For unto us a child is born,

unto us a son is given,

and the government will be upon His shoulders.

And He will be called

Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,

Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

7Of the increase of His government and peace

there will be no end.


He will reign on the throne of David

and over his kingdom,

to establish and sustain it

with justice and righteousness

from that time and forevermore.

The zeal of the LORD of Hosts will accomplish this.​

I believe that this kingdom is Spiritual and that it will last forever and the increase of it means that people will be coming into the kingdom forever because the increase never stops. That means there will be no end to this world either except for death and we pass on from this life but life will never end here because that would mean a stop of increase to the kingdom.
 
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Carl Emerson

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I believe that God has always existed in an eternal heaven before the creation came into being, and time and space began.

I do not believe God in His heaven is limited by time or space as these are matters that He created.

To be the creator He must pre-exist the creation.

I believe His heavenly dimension is beyond both time and space.

The 24 elders who bow before His throne saying "Holy Holy..." have been doing that forever, even before anything was created.
 
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Mark Quayle

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I believe that God has always existed in an eternal heaven before the creation came into being, and time and space began.

I do not believe God in His heaven is limited by time or space as these are matters that He created.

To be the creator He must pre-exist the creation.

I believe His heavenly dimension is beyond both time and space.

The 24 elders who bow before His throne saying "Holy Holy..." have been doing that forever, even before anything was created.
Time is part of the creation. It is God's 'invention'.
 
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GallagherM

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That is very thoughtful insight Carl, I would lean in on to agree that God would be timeless. He through His Word did create them (space, time, matter). I was reading Colossians 1 today with my mother it was a good read it talks about how that through Christ Jesus all things where created.

Colossians 1: For by Him (The Word/ Christ Jesus) all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created by Him and for Him.

Have you ever heard anyone else tell you anything different about the topic you are presenting ?
 
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Carl Emerson

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That is very thoughtful insight Carl, I would lean in on to agree that God would be timeless. He through His Word did create them (space, time, matter). I was reading Colossians 1 today with my mother it was a good read it talks about how that through Christ Jesus all things where created.

Colossians 1: For by Him (The Word/ Christ Jesus) all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created by Him and for Him.

Have you ever heard anyone else tell you anything different about the topic you are presenting ?

Yes it doesn't fit with the theories of our SDA friends it seems.
 
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covid-19v1

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I've got a small project suggestion for you...

1) Make up a short story in your mind

2) Make yourself a decent length writing scroll...long enough to fit the short story you have just made up.

3) Write the short story on your scroll, making sure you orient it in a way you will scroll up or down to write and read on it.

Congratulations on your work! You now have on your hand a way to simulate how God is not bound by time. The "book" that you've just written has a beginning and ending. You have control over which part of the book is opened/unscrolled for reading.
 
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Carl Emerson

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I might add that the faith of Abraham was characterised but being able to believe that God could create something out of nothing.

Fundamentally all true believers have the faith of Abraham - the Father of all who have faith - and believe that Jesus was raised in the flesh.

Corpse - no hope - nada - nothing.

But we agree 'He is risen indeed...'
 
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Taodeching

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So you comment please - Is God constrained by time?

No, God is not bound by the construct of time. God can see past, present, and future at the same time being absolutely outside of time
 
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hedrick

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From a physics point of view, time and space are part of the same thing. I do t see any way to be in time without also being physically in the universe. It’s worth noting that the OT often speaks of God learning things snd changing his mind. As I understand it, the most attractive concepts of God in current philosophy involve panentheism. In that, God is both outside and within the universe. Thus a simple answer may not be the best.

I agree that it may be wrong to think of heaven (or the renewed earth) as being normal linear time but extended indefinitely.
 
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bling

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When Jesus said "before Abraham was I AM" he didn't say 'I WAS' this would seem to signify continuous present is part of His nature.

Then there is...
2 Peter 3:8
But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

Again this verse seems to indicate God's experience of time is both instantaneous and encompassing and not linear as we know it.

Then there is eternal life which for the truely saved starts now along with entering His eternal rest.

And lastly the Cross as a timeless event anchored in History but active for all believers in any moment of time.

So you comment please - Is God constrained by time?
God is otside of human time but that does nnot mean there is no sequencing of events in heaven.
 
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Paul4JC

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Of course, he does. Our problem and danger are to under spiritualize spiritual dimensions into make-believe and fantasy and space. No, these are real dimensions and realms, equal to or more real than our physical earthly realm. He is from everlasting to everlasting, in all his perfections and glory.

[Psa 106:48 NIV] Praise be to the LORD, the God of Israel, from everlasting to everlasting. Let all the people say, "Amen!" Praise the LORD.

[Phl 2:10 NIV] that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
 
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Bobber

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From a physics point of view, time and space are part of the same thing. I do t see any way to be in time without also being physically in the universe. It’s worth noting that the OT often speaks of God learning things snd changing his mind. As I understand it, the most attractive concepts of God in current philosophy involve panentheism. In that, God is both outside and within the universe. Thus a simple answer may not be the best.

I agree that it may be wrong to think of heaven (or the renewed earth) as being normal linear time but extended indefinitely.
So what would this mean that God is outside but within the universe. And are you connecting that to what you expressed that the OT speaks of God learning things or changing his mind. How would all this work?
 
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com7fy8

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When Jesus said "before Abraham was I AM" he didn't say 'I WAS' this would seem to signify continuous present is part of His nature.
But He does say "before" the earth "was". So, I would say Heaven would be aware of things before and during and later. But there would have been no sun for measuring time by its relative position around the earth.

My personal opinion now is that time is eternity. And a part of time, like a minute, is a part of eternity which can be measured by where the earth and sun are in relation to each other.

And Jesus speaks in the past tense about when He had glory with our Father before the earth was >

"'And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.'" (John 17:5)

So, I would say there is timing.

I now think of this, Carl > possibly Jesus says "AM" to show how He Himself does not change with time . . . time which does have past and present and future.
 
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Fervent

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Is God bound by time? No, God is not subject to any of the restrictions of creation.

Does God exist in a timeless reality? No, God exists in ALL times immediately. He is present in an unchangeable sense in all places and times, essentially existing not as potential but as pure action. God is time and space, yet He is not confined to time and space. He is what gives creation its substance.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Does God exist in a timeless reality? No, God exists in ALL times immediately.
That is a way to put it, but not likely THE way. We really don't know, except we do know he is not restricted or governed by any outside principle. THAT is one of the reasons people like me conceive of him operating in a timeless economy. Yet I am happy to admit that my concept is by nature of the fact I conceive of it, incomplete at best.
 
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