FaithWillDo

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Thanks for sharing your view Joe but I believe your interpretation of the scriptures you post here is not biblical but allow me to explain why so it might be helpful. God's salvation according to the scriptures is conditional on us believing and following what Gods' Word says. So the scriptures you post here are not the problem it is your interpretation of them that is the problem. What you will notice is that each scripture you provided is in context to those who believe and follow what God's Word says not to those who do not believe and do not follow what Gods' Word says. James in James 2:17-26 calls a faith that does not believe and follow what God's Word says the dead faith of devils and Paul says in Romans 3:31 that faith does not abolish Gods' law it establishes God's law. According to the scriptures we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. At the second coming Christs reward is with him *Revelation 22:12. The righteous receive their reward of eternal life *Revelation 22:14 and the wicked, the lake of fire. All men will not be saved.

Hope this is helpful

You said:
God's salvation according to the scriptures is conditional on us believing and following what Gods' Word says.

Yes, you are absolutely right. But what you are missing is that mankind CANNOT believe or follow God's Word (or even understand God's Word for that matter) without the gift of the Holy Spirit.

You said:
According to the scriptures we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith.

Grace is God's unmerited favor. His Grace is manifested by Christ's work within us. Christ's work is to come individually to all mankind and give us the gift of the Holy Spirit (among other things). If He did not come to us with His gifts, no one would be saved. But He "is, was and will be coming" to every person who has ever lived and He comes because of Grace.

Whenever someone believes that Christ's gifts are conditional and require something from them first (like a confession of faith), they are mixing faith with "works" and will remain under Law. Christ is the one who gives us the answer of our tongue. Mankind has no ability to seek Christ or to accept Him as Lord in our created state. By a person claiming they were saved by speaking a confession of faith by their own Free Will, they are stealing from the work of Christ. If they did need to contribute anything first (even just a confession of faith), they would have something to boast about since it would differentiate them from unbelievers. But mankind cannot contribute anything - we are that lost. We are saved by Christ doing His work within us and nothing else. All our thoughts/beliefs/decisions that lead to our salvation come from Christ's work within us. He is changing us "spiritually". Mankind's old flawed spirit who hates and rejects Christ must be destroyed so that we can walk by a new spirit (the Holy Spirit). Christ made us flawed for a reason and when that reason has run its course, He will make us spiritually perfect. It is 100% His work. It always has been and always will be.

Also, God's Grace does not empower us to "be obedient". Grace is the reason why Christ will come to each of us and do His work. From His work "within" us, we are then empowered to be obedient.

You said:
According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. At the second coming Christs reward is with him *Revelation 22:12. The righteous receive their reward of eternal life *Revelation 22:14 and the wicked, the lake of fire. All men will not be saved.

Once we commit our first sin, we become a child of the devil. We will stay in that condition UNTIL Christ destroys our flawed spiritual nature and gives us the Holy Spirit. This life changing event is called "conversion". It is what happened to the apostles on the Day of Pentecost and what happened to Paul after He had been in Damascus for three days. Conversion is also called the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, the Latter Rain of the Spirit and the second coming of Christ.

Mankind expects a visible return of Christ to the world at some future date but Christ will not return in that manner. When Christ returns, He only comes "spiritually" within each person (is, was and will be coming) and He brings salvation with Him. Christ will never be seen again with physical eyes again. To "see" Him now, we must be given spiritual "eyes".

Christ's second coming first happened to His apostles on the Day of Pentecost and then to all His chosen Elect since that time.

Here is the GREAT MYSTERY OF CHRIST AND HIS CHURCH:

To be saved, mankind's salvation requires TWO comings of Christ - the Early and Latter Rain.

The Early Rain is the event when Christ calls us out from the world. At the time, Christ does not "appear" to the new believer. Christ remains hidden from their understanding. In other words, the new believer is spiritually blind and cannot "see" Christ (can't receive truth from the Word of God). Paul "typed" this Early Rain event while traveling on the Damascus Road. Paul could not see who the voice was who was speaking to him. He had to be told who the voice was. Paul also became blind to "type" the spiritual blindness we all experience at the time. He then had to be led by the hand into the city (the blind leading the blind). As a result of our blindness after being "called out" (Early Rain), over 2000 different denominations/sects have been created in the world, all with their own version of the truth. They are truly places where the blind are leading the blind.

Shortly after receiving the Early Rain, Satan will come to us (Parable of the Wheat and the Tares) and deceive us into approaching Christ by faith mixed with works. When this happens, we "fall away" and commit the sin that leads to death. In other words, we lose our salvation. Since we cannot be renewed by repentance, our only hope is for Christ to "come again" (Latter Rain).

The Old Testament also teaches the Early Rain. The Old Testament Early Rain is when the Nation of Israel was "called out" and they were baptized unto Moses:

1Cor 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

The verse says they were baptized "in the cloud". The "cloud" represents their spiritual blindness upon receiving the Early Rain. God was veiled from Israel by the cloud. And just like Paul on the Damascus Road, they could hear a voice (via Moses) but could not see who was actually speaking to them.

Look at this verse:

Acts 3:20-21 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: WHOM THE HEAVEN MUST RECEIVE until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Christ remains "in heaven" until all mankind is saved. He only operates "spiritually" within mankind while He is doing His work within us. Once all mankind has been saved, it will no longer be necessary for Christ to appear to us that way.

And since Christ is going to save all mankind, "every eye" will see Him in this manner. This event of "seeing" Him happens when He appears to us at the Latter Rain (the second coming).

This verse applies:

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Christ first "appeared" to mankind in the flesh when He did His work on the cross. The "second time" He appears is at the Latter Rain event when He brings salvation to us. At the time of the Early Rain, He does not appear to us. He remains veiled.

There are many more verses which teach the truth of the Early And Latter Rain but the truth is hidden in spiritual language. This is why Christ and His church are a great mystery. Only those who are given "eyes that can see" at the time of the Latter Rain can unlock this great mystery.

Joe
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Not sure I can agree with that:
For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law but under grace Romans6:14
Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

We receive grace through our faith that God gives as a gift to those who He saves.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God Ephesians 2:8

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. James 2:17

Before we receive God’s grace we have to go through Christs righteous Judgement
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
 
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FaithWillDo

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Not sure I can agree with that:
For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law but under grace Romans6:14

Dear John,
Grace is God's unmerited favor. God's unmerited favor is manifested in the work of Christ. He does His work within mankind even though we have done nothing to deserve it.

Christ is the One who comes to us and gives us faith, belief, acceptance, understanding, and the Holy Spirit with all of its gifts. Christ even gives us the "answer of our tongue" which comes from the gifts He gives us. We have NO works that can earn God's favor. Christ gives us EVERYTHING necessary for our salvation. If a person is not saved, it is ONLY because Christ has not come to them yet. But He promises that He will:

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

In this age, Christ is ONLY coming to His First-Fruits of His harvest of mankind. They are also called the Elect, the overcomers, the heirs, the saints, etc. They are the only ones who Christ is coming to in this age with all the gifts necessary for their salvation. "Many are Called (out), few are chosen". Everyone else (including the many who are called but not chosen) will have to wait for His appearing at the end of the final age for salvation. Then God will be "all in all".

1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Another point I wanted to make is that when we are "in Christ", we are fulfilling the Sabbath Day. In other words, we rest from our works because Christ is doing all the work to make us acceptable. Christ must do all the work because:

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

In our unbelieving state, mankind cannot even ask God for His gifts because we have NO belief and no ability within ourselves to acquire it. Christ must come to us and give it to us. Only then do we respond with a confession of faith. It happens every time. Anyone who has truly been given the Holy Spirit can no longer call Jesus accursed. Our salvation is 100% the work of Christ.

The Law is mankind's "work" which tries to make us clean on the outside so that we can be acceptable to God. Adam was the first to try it when he made an apron of figs leaves to hide his nakedness. That is religion and religion is rejected by God. And like Adam, we too, prefer the Old Wine over the New Wine. After we first believe, our Old Man does not die and we remain carnally minded. The Early Rain is not sufficient to save us. Because our Old Man does not die (the deadly wound was healed, Rev 13:3), we all return to what we prefer which is the Old Covenant of works. When we return to our works for salvation, it causes us to "fall away" and be "broken". This is the sin that leads to death. Everyone follows this path. But with the Elect, Christ will come a second time to them and bring the Latter Rain. This is the point of man's conversion.

The Law cannot save anyone and that is why Christ had to come. And He comes because of the Grace of God and not because we have done to earn His favor.

Joe
 
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SabbathBlessings

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,

Another point I wanted to make is that when we are "in Christ", we are fulfilling the Sabbath Day. In other words, we rest from our works because Christ is doing all the work to make us acceptable. Christ must do all the work

Hi FaithWillDo,

I have never heard of Christ keeping the law so we don’t have to. If that was the case than we would not be in the situation we are in as there would be no sin and that certainly is not the case and goes against every principle of our Savior who gives us free will. Jesus gives us the Holy Spirit to help us obey for those who want to. John 14:15-18. Acts 5:32

We are told to be doers of the Word.

James 1: 22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

Jesus certainly did not do away with God’s laws and when Jesus says:

If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15
seems pretty self-explanatory and I know I love Jesus.

Mathew 5: 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

One of the last verses in the Bible:

Revelations 22: 12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and theEnd, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

The verses you quoted from Paul does not delete God’s laws. In fact Paul makes this very point when he said: but keeping the commandments of God is what matters 1 Corinthians 7:19
 
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FaithWillDo

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I have never heard of Christ keeping the law so we don’t have to. If that was the case than we would not be in the situation we are in as there would be no sin and that certainly is not the case and goes against every principle of our Savior who gives us free will.

We are told to be doers of the Word.

James 1: 22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

Jesus certainly did not do away with God’s laws and when Jesus says:

If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15
seems pretty self-explanatory and I know I love Jesus.

Mathew 5: 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

One of the last verses in the Bible:

Revelations 22: 12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and theEnd, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

The verses you quoted from Paul does not delete God’s laws. In fact Paul makes this very point when he said: What matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Corinthians 7:19

Dear Sabbathblessings,
Christ "fulfilled" the Law. This is referring to the laws of the temple, the sacrifices, the offerings, the feasts, etc. These ended at the cross when the New Covenant started. Christ is the final sacrifice. The rest of the Law is summed up with "love God with all your heart, mind and soul and love your neighbor has yourself. That's it.

Joe
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Dear Sabbathblessings,
Christ "fulfilled" the Law. This is referring to the laws of the temple, the sacrifices, the offerings, the feasts, etc. These ended at the cross when the New Covenant started. Christ is the final sacrifice. The rest of the Law is summed up with "love God with all your heart, mind and soul and love your neighbor has yourself. That's it.

Joe
“Fulfill” does not mean destroy as the very Words stated from our Savior.

Mathew 5: 17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

If you read this passage in context it very clearly states Jesus did not come to destroy God’s laws. When I am faithful to my husband I am fulfilling my marriage vows. Just like when I drive the speed limit I am fulfilling the law. If I go over the speed limit than I am breaking the law.

Jesus clearly tells us to keep the commandments.

Mathew 19: 16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and,‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

Jesus directly quoted from God’s Ten Commandments. You certainly do not want to hear these Words from our Savior on that great day when Jesus comes:

Mathew 7: 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

I agree some laws ended at the cross with Christ as our sacrifice which include the ceremonial ordinances Colossians 2:14-17 not God’s eternal commandments Psalms 89:34. Which is clearly demonstrated by these scriptures in the New Covenant, that is God’s laws now written in our hearts and we fulfill these laws when we obey because of our great love for our Savior!

Maybe something to consider in prayer?

God bless!
 
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So following this theses to its natural conclusion, only SDA's get to heaven because they have kept all the commandments including the seventh day Sabbath.

That is the real issue here.

It is more than a matter of promoting Law, it is a judgement on all who do not keep the 'whole' Law from their point if view.

Forget that Jesus freed us from the curse of the Law - what we are hearing is obey the 10 or be damned.

So the motive for keeping the Law becomes fear of not being saved.

What is missing is the real motive for obedience is Love, not fear.

Jesus within the truely born again constrains us to avoid sin, and even if we do sin, makes provision for our reconciliation. He does this work within us because He loves us.

We are called to freedom as friends in a love relationship, not slaves to the Law.

The Gospel is good news, that Jesus has dies for our sins, and keeps us in righteousness by His Grace.

The Law then is replaced by loving God and our neighbour and in so doing we fulfil the Law of the Spirit.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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So following this theses to its natural conclusion, only SDA's get to heaven because they have kept all the commandments including the seventh day Sabbath.

That is the real issue here.

It is more than a matter of promoting Law, it is a judgement on all who do not keep the 'whole' Law from their point if view.

Forget that Jesus freed us from the curse of the Law - what we are hearing is obey the 10 or be damned.

So the motive for keeping the Law becomes fear of not being saved.

What is missing is the real motive for obedience is Love, not fear.

Jesus within the truely born again constrains us to avoid sin, and even if we do sin, makes provision for our reconciliation. He does this work within us because He loves us.

We are called to freedom as friends in a love relationship, not slaves to the Law.

The Gospel is good news, that Jesus has dies for our sins, and keeps us in righteousness by His Grace.

The Law then is replaced by loving God and our neighbour and in so doing we fulfil the Law of the Spirit.

The real issue is obeying God's authority over man. Not once did I claim only Adventists go to Heaven or even quote from Adventist doctrine, it was all God's Word. As much as I would like to think all Adventist go to Heaven, I am pretty sure that is not the case. According to Jesus if you break one law you break them all, so for example, if an Adventist is keeping God's Sabbath, but places money above God than unless the Adventist repents for their sin, they will probably not be in heaven.

You do not need to be an Adventist to keep God's Sabbath day holy or other commandments. The Adventist church is one of the few churches though that teaches the Ten commandments and believes in the whole bible.

God judges us based on our knowledge, so I am sure there will be many saved from many denominations who did not know the Truth. God does not wink though at sin once we have the knowledge and Truth . God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:24

I agree we obey Jesus because of our love which is what the New Covenant is about. God's laws written in our hearts, we obey because of our love, not because He commanded us. The Ten commandments is based on love. When I love Jesus I want to not worship any other god, or bow down to images, or vain his name or not profane His holy day. This is all based on my great love for my Savior. When I love my neighbor, I will show them this though not stealing from them, or lying to them, or coveting what they have and I certainly won't murder them. You see all of God's commandments are based on love.

Hope this helps. God bless.
 
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FaithWillDo

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“Fulfill” does not mean destroy as the very Words stated from our Savior.

Mathew 5: 17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

If you read this passage in context it very clearly states Jesus did not come to destroy God’s laws. When I am faithful to my husband I am fulfilling my marriage vows. Just like when I drive the speed limit I am fulfilling the law. If I go over the speed limit than I am breaking the law.

Jesus clearly tells us to keep the commandments.

Mathew 19: 16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and,‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

Jesus directly quoted from God’s Ten Commandments. You certainly do not want to hear these Words from our Savior on that great day when Jesus comes:

Mathew 7: 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

I agree some laws ended at the cross with Christ as our sacrifice which include the ceremonial ordinances Colossians 2:14-17 not God’s eternal commandments Psalms 89:34. Which is clearly demonstrated by these scriptures in the New Covenant, that is God’s laws now written in our hearts and we fulfill these laws when we obey because of our great love for our Savior!

Maybe something to consider in prayer?

God bless!

Dear Sabbathblessings,
Christ is the ONLY one who keeps the Law. Mankind cannot. The Law was given to man to prove this point to us and to lead us to Christ. At a time of Christ's choosing, Christ will come to each person who has ever lived and write the Law in their hearts. This is the New Covenant and it is salvation.

The New Covenant is spiritual and not "outward" like the Old Covenant is. The spiritual happens "within" man because that is where our sin problem originates. The Law only attempts to make a person clean on the outside. But in order to be truly clean, we must be cleansed on the inside. This is the work of Christ as I have been stating in my posts. Mankind has no ability to cleanse themselves on the inside.

Only after Christ comes to a person with the Early and Latter Rain and has the Law written in their heart, are they able to keep the commandants. But it is not man who keeps the commandants, it is Christ "in us" who does the keeping.

The Law is summed up by two commandants:

Mat 40:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The temple sacrifices and all that goes along with them (including tithing) ended at the cross BECAUSE it was "fulfilled" by Christ's work on the cross. The remaining portion of the Law, the ten commandants, must still be obeyed and they are obeyed when we love God and love our neighbor. The only exception is the Sabbath Day law.

The Sabbath Day is obeyed when we enter into the "rest" of Christ by "faith". In other words, we no longer have any "works" to perform to be acceptable to God. We are saved by "faith" (which Christ gives us) in the knowledge that Christ will do all the works necessary to restore us to God. That does not mean that we don't have good works or works of faith. But those works are the "works of Christ" He does from "within" us. We are saved by "faith" and the evidence of that faith is good works.

Isa 26:12 O Jehovah, Thou appointest peace to us, For, all our works also Thou hast wrought for us.

God "appointest peace to us" when we are "in Christ". This "peace" comes to us because we rest from our "works" (Old Covenant). We walk by the "faith" that Christ is doing all the works necessary for our salvation. Our "works" have become His "works" and Christ never fails. We can now be at peace.

Under the Old Covenant, the Sabbath Day is "outward" and had to be observed in an outward manner. But under the New Covenant, the Sabbath Day is kept "inwardly". We are at rest 24/7 when we are "in Christ". We no longer need to keep the shadow of the Sabbath Day (keeping the Sabbath one day a week). We now keep the fulfillment of the Sabbath Day when we enter into the rest of Christ.

Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

No longer does man have any works to perform in order to be acceptable to God. Christ is the only one who keeps the Law and is acceptable to God. When we are "in Christ", only then can we keep the Law because Christ keeps it through us.

We keep the Law when Christ writes the Law in our hearts. The Law is spiritual and not outward. We obey the whole Law simply by loving God and loving our neighbor. There is nothing else to keep.

Here is Christ's teaching on when He writes His Law in our hearts:

John 8:3-10 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

A “woman” in scripture represents God’s wife who is mankind.

Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

From the very start of Adam’s creation, his marriage relationship with God was based upon faith. However, Adam was created spiritually weak and spiritually blind. He quickly became carnally minded. Because of these flaws, Adam soon sinned by committing adultery with Satan (believing Satan instead of God). Rather than going to God in faith and asking for forgiveness, Adam turned to the ways of Satan and tried to hide (apron of fig leaves, filthy rags) his adultery through his own “works”. If Adam would have come to God in faith and simply asked for forgiveness, he would have been forgiven and the marriage relationship would have been restored. But Adam turned to his own works and strayed from approaching God by faith alone. Because of Adam’s adultery with Satan, the marriage ended and God cast him out of the Garden. Ever since that time, God has been working to restore His marriage relationship with mankind.

In the story from John 8:3-10, the woman represents Adam (mankind). When Christ first writes in the earth it represents the time when He first writes His law in our hearts.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This verse is speaking of the New Covenant which is spiritual.

When Christ first writes the Law in our hearts, it is the time of the Early Rain when we are “called out from the world”. Now, instead of by approaching God by "works", we are to approach Him by "faith" alone. However, shortly after receiving the Early Rain, Satan comes to us and deceives us. This happens because we remain spiritually blind. Because of Satan's deception, we fall away from faith alone and mix in our own works (like Adam did). This is the sin that leads to death and we remain under the Law. Because this happens, the Pharisees do not drop the stones after Christ first writes in the earth. The Law is still accusing us.

Then in verse 8, Christ stoops down again and writes His Law upon our hearts a second time (the Latter Rain). It is at this point that Christ heals our spiritual blindness and we come out from Satan’s deception. We begin to walk by faith alone and as a result, the Law can no longer accuse us. After this change from Law to Faith, the Pharisees drop their stones and leave. The Law is now of no effect over the woman (mankind) and we are restored to God.

Here is a verse you quoted:
Mathew 7: 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

The believers who are rejected are the believers who have only received the Early Rain. They remain under Law. And since they cannot keep the Law, they are said to "practice lawlessness".

In this age, Christ is only coming to His Elect with both the Early and Latter Rain. "Many' are called out, but only a "few" are chosen to be saved at this time. The believers who are rejected are part of the "many" who are not chosen. They will remain under the Law and will be judged by the Law.

I hope what I stated in this post can help you understand the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. If you have any specific questions, I would be happy to try and answer them.

Joe
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Dear Sabbathblessings,
Christ is the ONLY one who keeps the Law. Mankind cannot. The Law was given to man to prove this point to us and to lead us to Christ. At a time of Christ's choosing, Christ will come to each person who has ever lived and write the Law in their hearts. This is the New Covenant and it is salvation.

The New Covenant is spiritual and not "outward" like the Old Covenant is. The spiritual happens "within" man because that is where our sin problem originates. The Law only attempts to make a person clean on the outside. But in order to be truly clean, we must be cleansed on the inside. This is the work of Christ as I have been stating in my posts. Mankind has no ability to cleanse themselves on the inside.

Only after Christ comes to a person with the Early and Latter Rain and has the Law written in their heart, are they able to keep the commandants. But it is not man who keeps the commandants, it is Christ "in us" who does the keeping.

The Law is summed up by two commandants:

Mat 40:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The temple sacrifices and all that goes along with them (including tithing) ended at the cross BECAUSE it was "fulfilled" by Christ's work on the cross. The remaining portion of the Law, the ten commandants, must still be obeyed and they are obeyed when we love God and love our neighbor. The only exception is the Sabbath Day law.

The Sabbath Day is obeyed when we enter into the "rest" of Christ by "faith". In other words, we no longer have any "works" to perform to be acceptable to God. We are saved by "faith" (which Christ gives us) in the knowledge that Christ will do all the works necessary to restore us to God. That does not mean that we don't have good works or works of faith. But those works are the "works of Christ" He does from "within" us. We are saved by "faith" and the evidence of that faith is good works.

Isa 26:12 O Jehovah, Thou appointest peace to us, For, all our works also Thou hast wrought for us.

God "appointest peace to us" when we are "in Christ". This "peace" comes to us because we rest from our "works" (Old Covenant). We walk by the "faith" that Christ is doing all the works necessary for our salvation. Our "works" have become His "works" and Christ never fails. We can now be at peace.

Under the Old Covenant, the Sabbath Day is "outward" and had to be observed in an outward manner. But under the New Covenant, the Sabbath Day is kept "inwardly". We are at rest 24/7 when we are "in Christ". We no longer need to keep the shadow of the Sabbath Day (keeping the Sabbath one day a week). We now keep the fulfillment of the Sabbath Day when we enter into the rest of Christ.

Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

No longer does man have any works to perform in order to be acceptable to God. Christ is the only one who keeps the Law and is acceptable to God. When we are "in Christ", only then can we keep the Law because Christ keeps it through us.

We keep the Law when Christ writes the Law in our hearts. The Law is spiritual and not outward. We obey the whole Law simply by loving God and loving our neighbor. There is nothing else to keep.

Here is Christ's teaching on when He writes His Law in our hearts:

John 8:3-10 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

A “woman” in scripture represents God’s wife who is mankind.

Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

From the very start of Adam’s creation, his marriage relationship with God was based upon faith. However, Adam was created spiritually weak and spiritually blind. He quickly became carnally minded. Because of these flaws, Adam soon sinned by committing adultery with Satan (believing Satan instead of God). Rather than going to God in faith and asking for forgiveness, Adam turned to the ways of Satan and tried to hide (apron of fig leaves, filthy rags) his adultery through his own “works”. If Adam would have come to God in faith and simply asked for forgiveness, he would have been forgiven and the marriage relationship would have been restored. But Adam turned to his own works and strayed from approaching God by faith alone. Because of Adam’s adultery with Satan, the marriage ended and God cast him out of the Garden. Ever since that time, God has been working to restore His marriage relationship with mankind.

In the story from John 8:3-10, the woman represents Adam (mankind). When Christ first writes in the earth it represents the time when He first writes His law in our hearts.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This verse is speaking of the New Covenant which is spiritual.

When Christ first writes the Law in our hearts, it is the time of the Early Rain when we are “called out from the world”. Now, instead of by approaching God by "works", we are to approach Him by "faith" alone. However, shortly after receiving the Early Rain, Satan comes to us and deceives us. This happens because we remain spiritually blind. Because of Satan's deception, we fall away from faith alone and mix in our own works (like Adam did). This is the sin that leads to death and we remain under the Law. Because this happens, the Pharisees do not drop the stones after Christ first writes in the earth. The Law is still accusing us.

Then in verse 8, Christ stoops down again and writes His Law upon our hearts a second time (the Latter Rain). It is at this point that Christ heals our spiritual blindness and we come out from Satan’s deception. We begin to walk by faith alone and as a result, the Law can no longer accuse us. After this change from Law to Faith, the Pharisees drop their stones and leave. The Law is now of no effect over the woman (mankind) and we are restored to God.

Here is a verse you quoted:
Mathew 7: 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

The believers who are rejected are the believers who have only received the Early Rain. They remain under Law. And since they cannot keep the Law, they are said to "practice lawlessness".

In this age, Christ is only coming to His Elect with both the Early and Latter Rain. "Many' are called out, but only a "few" are chosen to be saved at this time. The believers who are rejected are part of the "many" who are not chosen. They will remain under the Law and will be judged by the Law.

I hope what I stated in this post can help you understand the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. If you have any specific questions, I would be happy to try and answer them.

Joe

Hi there,

My response will have to be brief right now because I have a busy day and won't be able to respond until later this week.

I will leave you with these thoughts:

Christ is not going to keep God's laws for us, that would make us robots and not have free will, that is really important to God otherwise we would not have sin. God did not command Christ to obey Him, those commandments are for us. Exodus 20

Jesus is not going to ask us to do something that we cannot do. Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15 and than goes on to say I will give you a Helper so we can obey John 14:15-18 Basically you are disregarding everything Jesus told us to do.

It seems like you believe your sin is greater than our God. I do not believe this, Jesus said: “The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.” Luke 18:27 Do you not believe Him? Scriptures states His saints keep the commandments Revelation 14:12

Regarding the New Covenant, yes God's laws are written in our Hearts and Minds in the New Covenant and we fulfill those laws with love when we obey. Which is why it is still a sin to break any of God's commandments even in the NT. 1 John 3:4 And why Jesus quotes directly from the Ten. Mathew 19:17-19

Also regarding Christs rest, you need to read Hebrews because it is given to those who obey Him which includes keeping the seventh day Sabbath holy (4th commandment) as our Creator and Savior commanded us. Exodus 20:8

I will fill in the rest of the scriptures I referenced when I have more time.

God bless!
 
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Danthemailman

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Dear Sabbathblessings,
Christ "fulfilled" the Law. This is referring to the laws of the temple, the sacrifices, the offerings, the feasts, etc. These ended at the cross when the New Covenant started. Christ is the final sacrifice. The rest of the Law is summed up with "love God with all your heart, mind and soul and love your neighbor has yourself. That's it.

Joe
Certain people today seem determined to remain under the law and be justified by the law just like the Israelites in Romans 10:1-4.
 
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Freth

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I would defer to Jesus Himself, who gave His Revelation to John, which came from God the Father.

Revelation 1:1-2

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.​

Revelation 22:10-16

And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Let's break this down:
  • Revelation 1:1-2 Jesus received His Revelation from God the Father. This is God's message, through Jesus. This negates any sort of discrepancy between God's law and Jesus' law. They are one and the same.
  • Revelation 22:10 The time is at hand. Now is the time to heed the Revelation. We are in the end time. The book is opened, not sealed.
  • Revelation 22:11 Probation will close and your choice will be solidified and unchangeable.
  • Revelation 22:12 Jesus comes with just reward according to your works. Eternal life or destruction. It's your choice.
  • Revelation 22:13 Jesus asserts His utmost authority, giving urgency and gravity to His message. He shouldn't have to reiterate His authority, but He makes it a point to.
  • Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do His commandments that they may have right to the tree of life (eternal life) and may enter in through the gates into the city. These are conditional statements (may) hinging on obedience of God's commandments. Remember, this message is from God, through Jesus, given to John.
  • Revelation 22:15 For without are sinners. Partakers of abominations. Breakers of the commandments of God (the Ten Commandments et al). This is laid out very clear. Even some of the commandments and abominations are listed here so that you can know what it's referring to.
  • Revelation 22:16 Jesus asserts His authority yet again and specifically says that this message is to the churches.
  • Revelation 22:18-19 Jesus warns of the dire consequences of adding or taking away from scripture. This is also a clear indicator that He did not take anything away from His teachings (or God's teachings; i.e. God's law). God doesn't do a bait and switch, neither does Jesus.
It is clear to me that we are to obey the law of God.
 
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FaithWillDo

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Hi there,

My response will have to be brief right now because I have a busy day and won't be able to respond until later this week.

I will leave you with these thoughts:

Christ is not going to keep God's laws for us, that would make us robots and not have free will, that is really important to God otherwise we would not have sin. God did not command Christ to obey Him, those commandments are for us. Exodus 20

Jesus is not going to ask us to do something that we cannot do. Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15 and than goes on to say I will give you a Helper so we can obey John 14:15-18 Basically you are disregarding everything Jesus told us to do.

It seems like you believe your sin is greater than our God. I do not believe this, Jesus said: “The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.” Luke 18:27 Do you not believe Him? Scriptures states His saints keep the commandments Revelation 14:12

Regarding the New Covenant, yes God's laws are written in our Hearts and Minds in the New Covenant and we fulfill those laws with love when we obey. Which is why it is still a sin to break any of God's commandments even in the NT. 1 John 3:4 And why Jesus quotes directly from the Ten. Mathew 19:17-19

Also regarding Christs rest, you need to read Hebrews because it is given to those who obey Him which includes keeping the seventh day Sabbath holy (4th commandment) as our Creator and Savior commanded us. Exodus 20:8

I will fill in the rest of the scriptures I referenced when I have more time.

God bless!

Dear Sabbathblessings,
You said:
Christ is not going to keep God's laws for us, that would make us robots and not have free will, that is really important to God otherwise we would not have sin.

Why do you believe mankind has a free will?

There are zero scriptures that say we do.

Mankind has a "will" and we can make choices BUT God is the cause behind the choices we make.

Scripture clearly says so:

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

John 1:12–13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, BUT OF GOD.

Man's ways of doing things are NOT God's ways. If God left it up to us to make a free will choice to accept Him as Lord, we would never do so because of our flawed created condition.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Since God created mankind "subject to vanity", without our agreement, then why do you believe He needs our free will agreement to make us into a child of God?

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

1 Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Paul's conversion is the pattern all mankind will follow. Christ came to Paul on the Damascus Road and gave Paul the Holy Spirit. Christ did not ask Paul for permission. Paul didn't even seem to be aware that it even happened but we know that it did because Paul called Jesus "Lord".

Paul never made a "free will" decision for Christ to come to him and give him the Holy Spirit. Paul hated Christ and would have never agreed to become a Christian. But Paul's "will" does not stop God's "will" from being done on earth.

Most Christians probably aren't aware of when Christ came to them with the Holy Spirit either. They just know that they made a "decision" to accept Christ. From their spiritually blind state, they believe they made a "free will" decision to accept Christ. But scripture says differently. They became a Christian only because it was God's "will" for it to happen. Mankind has no "free will' as many believe.

After Christ gives us the Spirit, we cannot reject His gift and call Him accursed. Paul was the "chief of sinners" who actively hated Christ. If Paul can't reject the Spirit, then no one else can either. Remember, Christ does not "appear" when He comes with the Early Rain. That is probably why we don't realize the moment of His visitation. But our actions later are proof that He came.

God's "will" is to save all mankind and to do this great work, He will change our "will' to match His. He doesn't do it by force. He does it by sending Christ to us who gives us the gift of the Holy Spirit. Once the Spirit indwells us, our "will" is instantly changed. At that point, we can no longer call Jesus accursed. We can ONLY call Him "Lord".

You said:

Jesus is not going to ask us to do something that we cannot do.

Why do you believe this?

There are no scriptures that teach this belief. But there are scriptures that say the opposite. The Law was given to us to prove to mankind that we cannot obey the commandments of God. From this knowledge, we are lead to Christ. Christ is the only one who can obey the commandments of God. For that reason, Christ MUST come to us and give us the same spirit that indwells Him. It is God's Holy Spirit. Only then will we be able to obey the commandments of God. But God gets all the credit for our obedience. Without Him indwelling us, we cannot obey Him.

Because Christ lives within us and does His work through us, His yoke is easy and His burden is light:

Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

When Christ empowers us to love God and to love our neighbors, we are fully obeying the Law of God which is summed up in these two commandments.

You said:

It seems like you believe your sin is greater than our God. I do not believe this, Jesus said: “The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.” Luke 18:27 Do you not believe Him? Scriptures states His saints keep the commandments Revelation 14:12

I'm not sure why you would say this? Of course, all things are possible with God. A part of our maturing process is to learn to turn to God for everything. We have no ability to obey the commandments of God UNTIL God indwells us and causes us to obey them.

Your belief in free will is a "works based belief system". Why do you believe you are going to be saved but others are not? What is the difference between you and them? Are you smarter, wiser or just not as evil? There must be something within you that is better than those who reject Christ. But I can tell you by the certainty of God's Word, there is nothing within you that makes you better. We have all gone astray and we all fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

The only reason why you are saved is because Christ came to you, uninvited, and changed you from within WITHOUT your permission to do so. You have nothing to boast about concerning your salvation. Once Christ comes to those who are rejecting Him, they too will be changed from within and accept Him as Lord. This is the only way we can be saved. It is not by our works (includes our beliefs and thoughts) that we are saved. It is by the work of God.

And since God loves us all, He will save us all.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

In the end, all mankind will believe in Christ:

Phi 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

This confession of faith and obedience can only happen with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. So if every one has the Holy Spirit, then everyone is saved. After all, that is why Christ came:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Joe
 
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Certain people today seem determined to remain under the law and be justified by the law just like the Israelites in Romans 10:1-4.

Dear Danthemailman,
Yes, that is true but this happens to everyone after we are first "called out from the world". We all turn back to the Old Covenant of works for our salvation:

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

"No man" doesn't leave room for anyone to do differently. We all prefer the Old Wine because of our carnal natures. Only after we receive the Latter Rain of the Spirit can we prefer the New Wine.

Thanks for you post.

Joe
 
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40 Questions against traditional Christianity and the doctrine of Hell - Answered
(Answers provided from questions asked by @Saint Steven thread here)

Who will answer?

Let me say from the start, I do not believe in hellish (as in the doctrine of hell) doctrines from the Roman Catholic Church’s teachings of eternal burning Hell fire, the state of the dead, other false doctrines of salvation in disobedience or sin. The false teachings of Universalism which is a teaching in direct opposition to the bible and teachings designed to lead others away from God and His Word. According to the scriptures Gods’ salvation is conditional on us believing and following what Gods’ Word says and that this is a hard saying for many and is why Jesus says many will be called but only the few will be the chosen ones of God and only a remnant will be saved and not the whole world.

I decided to make this thread as a response to another thread promoting the false teachings of Universalism called 40 Questions against traditional Christianity and the doctrine of Hell (linked) because if I spent all this time addressing 40 questions then my time and posts would only get lost and swallowed up and disappear in the original thread so it is better to have an OP that answers the many of the false claims and accusations provided in the original OP that poses these questions.

Let God answer His own words…

1. Why did God create Satan, if he already knew ahead of time all the evil that Satan was going to do?

God creates all of his creation with free will to choose for themselves what they will do or not do. We can of course choose to follow God or choose not to follow God according to the scriptures (Proverbs 16:9; Joshua 24:15; John 7:17; John 1:12-13; 1 Corinthians 10:13; Revelation 3:20; Deuteronomy 30:19-20; Genesis 2:16-17; James 1:13-16 etc). The knowledge of good and evil would be a foreign concept to all those who only know to do good from the heart and for someone that does not have free will. Therefore, even though God knew what Satan would do before His creation God allowed it to happen to teach us that when we do evil and sin the result is suffering against ourselves or others. For example, Joseph suffered due to the sin of his brothers, who sold him into slavery and also due to Potiphar’s wife who falsely accused him of sexual assault, which got him thrown into prison (Genesis 37-40). Job’s suffering was terrible, but God specifically said it was not due to his sin. God described him as “a blameless and upright man” in Job 1:8. God allowed him though to be tested to see if he would remain faithful to God. Jesus said of the man born blind, “It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him” (John 9:3). And of course, Jesus, the sinless one, was murdered on the cross for simply loving others and speaking the Words of God (the truth). Sin or disobedience to Gods’ Word therefore is the cause of all the worlds suffering. We learn from Scripture that the sin of Adam and Eve brought suffering and death (Genesis 3). Paul tells us that “sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin” (Romans 5:12). Scripture also teaches that we all sin, so we are all a part of the problem (Romans 3:23) and that sin separates us from God in Isaiah 59:2. And we are also taught that all who sin die, so we all experience the suffering that sin brings (Romans 6:23; James 1:15). But not only this sin has opened the door for powerful forces of evil to rule this world, so that Satan is now called “the god of this world” in 2 Corinthians 4:4 (John 12:31; 1 John 5:19). And even the non-human creation is disordered and broken due to sin as we read in Romans 8:20-22. So suffering and death are symptoms of sin’s work and presence in the creation and in our lives. Therefore, God wants us to follow him not because we have to but because we want to and we know what is right and what will happen if we choose to do what is wrong. God of course is not willing that any should perish but not all will choose Gods’ ways. God allowed Satan free will as he does all of His creation. God allowed Satan’s actions to play out to teach His creation about good and evil so we can understand the origin of all suffering and unhappiness is found in sin and disobedience to Gods Word and the source of all true happiness is found in believing and following what Gods’ Word say which leads us to love and helping one another.

2. If the majority of the world won’t be saved because of the work of the enemy, then doesn’t Satan win? Why would God allow this if He is “all-powerful” and “all- knowing”?
No, not at all. It is quite the opposite according to the scriptures as Satan does not win at all. Those who follow Satan, and His Angels will end up in the lake of fire at the second coming when God puts an end to all the sin and suffering in this world, where death is also destroyed and those who through faith in Gods’ Word choose to follow him are rewarded with eternal life and those who choose not to believe and follow God’s Word and reject the free gift of Gods’ dear son are destroyed according to the scriptures (see; Revelation 20:10; Revelation 20:15; Matthew 25:41-46; Hebrews 10:26-39; 2 Thessalonians 1:8-10 etc)
Thanks for addressing those questions.

Keeking in mind here that to accept, rather than "reject the free gift of God's dear son" is to believe in and trust on the person and atoning work (blood--Romans 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of one's sin and permanent right standing (position) with God's justice; i.e., "not guilty;" never again to have one's sin charged against them; righteous, sanctifed in their standing (position) before God.
3. Who created evil in the first place? – (Isaiah 45:7)
God is the creator of all things see the answers from the previous sections in regards to free will. The Hebrew and Greek word meanings of evil have many meaning depending on the context it is used. For example in Isaiah 45:7 God is talking to King Cyrus and God uses him to bring judgement on those who reject him. Evil in this context is to adversity and affliction, and the judgements of God, not on moral wrong doing and disobedience to Gods’ Word.
4. Do earthly parents love their children more than God does? – Earthly parents would never torture their children for disobedience, nor would they annihilate them, or separate themselves from their children for all eternity.
True, God is not willing that anyone should perish but is long suffering but that all should come to repentance according to Peter in 2 Peter 3:9. This said as shown earlier there is consequences for our actions and Gods’ salvation is conditional on us believing and following what Gods’ Word says and the wages of unrepentant sin when we have been given a knowledge of the truth of God’s Word and reject it is death to all those who reject the gift of God’s dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing because they do despite to the Spirit of God’s grace *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-31; Romans 6:23. God’s salvation therefore is conditional on us believing and following what God’s Word says. If we to not believe and follow what Gods’ Word says we do not have God’s salvation and the wages of sin is death.
5. Does God actually love all people the same? If so, why are some people given thousands of chances to hear the Gospel and experience his love, while other people are born into the worst conditions, simply trying to survive and begging for food, never coming in contact with a missionary in their lives?
God knows the heart and tries the reigns every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings in Jeremiah 17:10. God see things that we never can and knows our very thoughts and feelings just like those who were destroyed in the floods in the days of Noah because their thoughts were only evil and evil continually *Genesis 6:5 or Sodom and Gomorrah that was destroyed with fire and brimstone because the suffering of man because of sin was so great *Genesis 13:13; Genesis 18:22-23. According to the scriptures God only holds us accountable to what we know not what we do not know (James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31) and
this life is only a life of probation to see who will seek to know and follow God and who will seek to reject and not follow God in order to receive the eternal life to come.
Again, keeping in mind that there is no "following God" apart from faith in and trust on the person and atoning work (blood--Romans 3:25) of Jesus Christ.
6. Does God ask us to forgive our enemies when He is ultimately not willing to do the same in the end?
A question not based on scripture with a false premise. God asks us to forgive those offers mercy for all forgiveness. Luke 17:3-4 says “If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.” God’s also offers forgiveness and mercy to all who seek him. God’s forgiveness and mercy is a free gift that we all receive by holding out the hand of faith (Ephesians 2:8-9; John 3:16) and is conditional on us believing and following what God’s Word says. As it is written in the scriptures “He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy (see Proverbs 28:13; 1 John 1:9). Of course we can pray for others and forgive them if they sin in ignorance and pray for others who sin against us.
7. Is being punished forever for sins committed in a short lifetime really “justice”? Or can we never understand his form of justice?
All life comes from God (Genesis 1) as God is the creator of all things in Heaven and earth *John 1:1-4; 14 and all lives belong to God who gave it. All life and love comes from God because God is love (Genesis 1; 1 John 4:8). Sin (disobedience to Gods’ Word) separates us from God who gives life to those who believe and follow him *Isaiah 59:2 and the wages of sin is death *Romans 6:23 to all those who reject the gift of God’s dear son and do not believe and follow Gods’ Word. As it is written “ He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.” In 1 John 5”12 and again “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God because all have sinned and are naturally separated from God *Romans 3:9-23 and that separation leads to death in those who do not have the son, but God so loved our world and was not willing that any should perish (John 3:16; 2 Peter 3:19) but that all should come to a knowledge of how they can receive Gods’ mercy and forgiveness and be saved, that
he sent his only begotten son to die the death of God’s justice and penalty for sin that we all deserve to die that by believing in Jesus and accepting his death on our behalf God’s justice and penalty for sin is now paid for by the blood of God’s dear son so that we can now receive Gods’ mercy and forgiveness. God’s free gift is now offered of forgiveness and mercy to anyone who will now receive it by holding out the hand of faith and if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us for our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. It is in the cross of Christ where we see Gods’ love for all mankind that God sent his own son to die for our sins to pay the price of God’s justice for sin so that we can all now be reconciled to God. It is only in God’s justice that we can truly see Gods’ love for all mankind which is revealed in Gods’ dear son and love for all mankind.
Yes!!!
8. If we are called to become more like God, but yet we can’t understand his justice, how can we ever strive to reflect his true character?
See previous section on how God’s justice reveals Gods love at the cross
9. Does God operate on a completely different moral scale than us? (His evil is our good, our good is his evil).. or are we truly made in his image?
According to the scriptures mankind was made in the image of God at creation and was sinless. Being sinless man was made in the image of God who was sinless. After the fall of mankind when we sinned we were separated from God (Genesis 1 to Genesis 3) and
no longer made in His image (character wise as God does not sin)
See Genesis 9:6, after the flood.
* see Habakkuk 1:13; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15; 9:28; 1 Peter 2:22. God is love *1 John 4:12-16 and everything that God does is based on love. We cannot understand God’s mind according to the scriptures because we have a selfish sinful mind (Genesis 6:5; Matthew 15:19-20; Matthew 12:34; Isaiah 1:5-6; Isaiah 55:7-9). Therefore as God is sinless and we are sinful and as God’s thoughts are so much higher than our thoughts and his ways from our ways God operates on a completely different moral scale called love *1 John 4:12-20; John 5:42.
10. If God does NOT will for anyone to perish, but already knows ahead of time that they will, why does he still create them? Knowing that they may never even have a chance to hear the Gospel?
So all creation can see and know the justice and love of God for all of His creation and the results of sin and the suffering it causes to God’s creation. Please see the previous sections. As posted earlier. All people everywhere will be judged by what we know not what we do not know (James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31.
11. Is the only purpose of this present life to make it into heaven? If so…
The purpose of life is to fulfill God’s will * Romans 8:28; Psalms 57:2; Acts of the Apostles 13:36; Colossians 1:16; Jeremiah 29:11; Jeremiah 29:19; Proverbs 16:4; Proverbs 19:21; Ephesians 2:10; Ecclesiastes 12:13-14. The purpose of life is to know God and to seek him with all of our heart (John 17:3; John 6:40; 1 John 5:11; Jeremiah 29:13.
12. Do all babies and children go to heaven? Wouldn’t it be more compassionate to abort a baby and ensure its salvation, than allow it to grow up and possibly go to hell?
No. According to the scriptures in times of ignorance God winks at but when a knowledge of the truth is come God calls all men to believe and follow it *James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31. A baby does not lose it’s salvation at death and does not go to hell according to the scriptures and it has no knowledge of good or evil so the question posed here is based on a premise that is not biblical.
..................to be continued
 
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FaithWillDo

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So I notice that my posts are being ignored - I am probobly being considered a lost cause by SDA...

They no longer think it profitable to knock on my door.

I had the same problem with Mormons and JW's.

Dear Carl,
This is the first time I have had a discussion on the forum with a SDA believer. I've always wondered what verses they use to support their beliefs. However, their beliefs are just another form of "works" that most believers rely on for salvation. We all travel that same path for a time so we shouldn't judge them. We all live by everything that comes out of the mouth of God, including the evil that He has us experience. But in the end, He will restore us all to the Father. This is the patience of the saints.

Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Joe
 
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Carl Emerson

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The real issue is obeying God's authority over man. Not once did I claim only Adventists go to Heaven or even quote from Adventist doctrine, it was all God's Word. As much as I would like to think all Adventist go to Heaven, I am pretty sure that is not the case. According to Jesus if you break one law you break them all, so for example, if an Adventist is keeping God's Sabbath, but places money above God than unless the Adventist repents for their sin, they will probably not be in heaven.

You do not need to be an Adventist to keep God's Sabbath day holy or other commandments. The Adventist church is one of the few churches though that teaches the Ten commandments and believes in the whole bible.

God judges us based on our knowledge, so I am sure there will be many saved from many denominations who did not know the Truth. God does not wink though at sin once we have the knowledge and Truth . God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:24

I agree we obey Jesus because of our love which is what the New Covenant is about. God's laws written in our hearts, we obey because of our love, not because He commanded us. The Ten commandments is based on love. When I love Jesus I want to not worship any other god, or bow down to images, or vain his name or not profane His holy day. This is all based on my great love for my Savior. When I love my neighbor, I will show them this though not stealing from them, or lying to them, or coveting what they have and I certainly won't murder them. You see all of God's commandments are based on love.

Hope this helps. God bless.

So your conclusion is that all who fail to keep the seventh day Sabbath are not loving God.

This is a serious judgement on most of the members of CF.

This sets you apart as a sect or worse.

We were warned about not 'rightly dividing the Body of Christ' before communion, leaving judgements to Him, and so to eat of the bread, preserving the Unity of the Body in faith.

We are not to judge one another regarding the sabbath.

I will continue to expose your determination to promote salvation by sabbath keeping.

This is salvation by Law.

Readers beware - Remember what Paul said...

3 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
 
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Carl Emerson

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Dear Carl,
This is the first time I have had a discussion on the forum with a SDA believer. I've always wondered what verses they use to support their beliefs. However, their beliefs are just another form of "works" that most believers rely on for salvation. We all travel that same path for a time so we shouldn't judge them. We all live by everything that comes out of the mouth of God, including the evil that He has us experience. But in the end, He will restore us all to the Father. This is the patience of the saints.

Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Joe

Joe we are in agreement...

I am strong on exposing this because I have concern for readers that may fall for the clever presentation of scriptures in such a way as to bring bondage to Law.

We have many new believers here, trying to process this stuff, and it is potentially very confusing.
 
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