savedbygrace2021

New Member
Jun 26, 2021
1
0
29
Warsaw
✟8,163.00
Country
Poland
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
When do 2 Witnesses die and lay there on ground for 3,5 days?


Do I understand it correctly that 7 year tribulation starts , 2 witnessess are send and they preach untill Middle of the week , then they are overcomed by the Beast who is doing Abomination of Desolation same day and then 3,5 days after they resurrect ?

Are they warning people to not take the Mark of Beast ?
 

Ligurian

Cro-Magnon
Apr 21, 2021
3,589
536
America
✟22,234.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Private
When do 2 Witnesses die and lay there on ground for 3,5 days?


Do I understand it correctly that 7 year tribulation starts , 2 witnessess are send and they preach untill Middle of the week , then they are overcomed by the Beast who is doing Abomination of Desolation same day and then 3,5 days after they resurrect ?

Are they warning people to not take the Mark of Beast ?

Revelation 9:1, Revelation 11:7, Revelation 17:8, Matthew 24:15-16.

Daniel 9:27 And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away: and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of time an end shall be put to the desolation.LXX

So... I don't think the first beast that comes out of the pit is responsible for the abomination of desolations, I think it's the false prophet who does that. Nor do I think that "my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away" means the sacrificial system. The same word for drink-offering in KJV shows up in Isaiah 1:13... by Isaiah 66:3... if we didn't know before, we would by now, that God never wanted the sacrificial system. However, the two witnesses are taken out of the way... by their deaths at the hands of the beast from the pit, followed by the Resurrection of Life. These two witnesses are also two candlesticks, which are defined in Revelation 1:20.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: pdudgeon
Upvote 0

FreddyFreddo

Thankful Sinner
Jun 26, 2021
18
19
54
Verviers
✟15,760.00
Country
Belgium
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
When do 2 Witnesses die and lay there on ground for 3,5 days?


Do I understand it correctly that 7 year tribulation starts , 2 witnessess are send and they preach untill Middle of the week , then they are overcomed by the Beast who is doing Abomination of Desolation same day and then 3,5 days after they resurrect ?

Are they warning people to not take the Mark of Beast ?
There is an interesting passage in Zechariah 4 that gives an idea of the two witnesses of Revelation. Zechariah has a vision where he sees a solid gold lampstand. On top is a bowl of oil, and an olive tree stands on each side (verses 3–4). The lampstand gives its light without human maintenance, being constantly supplied by the olive oil flowing from the trees into the bowl. God’s message to Zechariah was that God’s work (rebuilding the temple) would be accomplished “not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit” (verse 6).
Zechariah asks about the meaning of the olive trees and the branches supplying the oil, and the angel who speaks to him says “These are the two anointed ones who stand by the Lord of the whole earth” (Zechariah 4:14 ). In other words, God’s power to sustain His work is flowing through two individuals set apart for the task. In Zechariah’s context, these two individuals are Joshua (the current high priest) and Zerubbabel (the current governor of Judah). There's a foreshadowing of Jesus Christ, as the Messiah would combine the offices of priest and king. Then to Revelation 11:4. In the description of the two witnesses, John says, “They are ‘the two olive trees’ and the two lampstands, and ‘they stand before the Lord of the earth.’” John quotes from Zechariah 4. The two witnesses of Revelation, like Joshua and Zerubbabel, will have God’s power flowing through them to accomplish God’s work.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Ligurian
Upvote 0

Ligurian

Cro-Magnon
Apr 21, 2021
3,589
536
America
✟22,234.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Private
Are they warning people to not take the Mark of Beast ?

IMHO, they will be preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, which may or may not include the Revelation... because the Seven Thunders are sealed.


What is your understanding of the Mark of the Beast?
 
  • Like
Reactions: FreddyFreddo
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,689
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,795.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
When do 2 Witnesses die and lay there on ground for 3,5 days?
Here is the straight answer. In words you can understand.

The two witnesses will lay there dead on the ground from day 1260 to day 1263.5 on the 2520 day, 7 year time line.

They then are brought back to life and called up to heaven. Leaving the beast to rule unhampered for the remaining 1256.5 days, which the bible rounds off and refers to as 42 months in Revelation 13:5.

Do I understand it correctly that 7 year tribulation starts , 2 witnessess are send and they preach untill Middle of the week ,
yes, that is correct.

then they are overcomed by the Beast who is doing Abomination of Desolation same day and then 3,5 days after they resurrect ?

Since it is the beast who kills them on day 1260, the person will have to become the beast before then. The person becomes the beast by a series of actions.

1st, as the Antichrist, the King of Israel, at around the 3 year mark, he goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood 2Thessalonians2:4 kjv. The Jews will be mortified, and will refuse him from continuing as their King of Israel - ending his time as the Antichrist.

2nd, having revealed himself, by that act, of being the man of sin - and not the King of Israel messiah after-all.... God has strangers to him kill him for his audacious act. Likely he will be assassinated. We can get this from Ezekiel 28:1-10 kjv, which the person is code named the prince of tyre in those verses.

3rd, the slain man of sin, who claimed to have achieved God-hood will have a funeral, while his soul is in hell, in Isaiah 14:15-20 kjv. God in disdain for the person - a Jew, who destroys his land and his people does not let his soul remain in hell, and brings the person back to life - the mortally wounded but healed head in Revelation 13:3 kjv.

Brought back to life, he is now the beast. Who will have the two witnesses killed.

We can know him becoming the beast has to happen before day 1185 on the timeline because from Daniel 12:11-12 kjv, it is 1335 days from the time the abomination of desolation (the statue image of him) is setup on the temple mount till Jesus's return. The image of the beast setup on the temple mount will be signal for the Jews in Judaea to flee to the mountains, Matthew 24:15-21kjv

The two witnesses will be waring with the beast from day 1185 (AoD setup day) to day 1260 when he finally overcomes them and kills them. The two witnesses waring with the beast during that timeframe is to provide cover as the Jews are fleeing.

Are they warning people to not take the Mark of Beast ?
Among other things. Like not to trust the person. He is not the messiah, but Jesus is.

The two witnesses will be preaching what is to come. The same message that is in Matthew 24:15-31.


Here are a couple of charts I made regarding the topic... The top is the beginning of the 7 years, and going down the page is through the 7 years.

upload_2021-6-26_18-45-35.jpeg



.
upload_2021-6-26_18-46-54.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Ligurian

Cro-Magnon
Apr 21, 2021
3,589
536
America
✟22,234.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Private
There is an interesting passage in Zechariah 4 that gives an idea of the two witnesses of Revelation. Zechariah has a vision where he sees a solid gold lampstand. On top is a bowl of oil, and an olive tree stands on each side (verses 3–4). The lampstand gives its light without human maintenance, being constantly supplied by the olive oil flowing from the trees into the bowl. God’s message to Zechariah was that God’s work (rebuilding the temple) would be accomplished “not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit” (verse 6).
Zechariah asks about the meaning of the olive trees and the branches supplying the oil, and the angel who speaks to him says “These are the two anointed ones who stand by the Lord of the whole earth” (Zechariah 4:14 ). In other words, God’s power to sustain His work is flowing through two individuals set apart for the task. In Zechariah’s context, these two individuals are Joshua (the current high priest) and Zerubbabel (the current governor of Judah). There's a foreshadowing of Jesus Christ, as the Messiah would combine the offices of priest and king. Then to Revelation 11:4. In the description of the two witnesses, John says, “They are ‘the two olive trees’ and the two lampstands, and ‘they stand before the Lord of the earth.’” John quotes from Zechariah 4. The two witnesses of Revelation, like Joshua and Zerubbabel, will have God’s power flowing through them to accomplish God’s work.

Yes... and again in LXX:

4:1 And the angel that talked with me returned, and awakened me, as when a man is awakened out of his sleep. 2 And he said to me, What seest thou? And I said, I have seen, and behold a candlestick all of gold, and its bowl upon it, and seven lamps upon it, and seven oil funnels to the lamps upon it: 3 and two olive-trees above it, one on the right of the bowl, and one on the left. 4 And I inquired, and spoke to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these things, my lord? 5 And the angel that talked with me answered, and spoke to me, saying, Knowest thou not what these things are? And I said, No, my lord. 6 And he answered and spoke to me, saying, This is the word of the Lord to Zorobabel, saying, Not by mighty power, nor by strength, but by my Spirit, saith the Lord Almighty. 7 Who art thou, the great mountain before Zorobabel, that thou shouldest prosper? whereas I will bring out the stone of the inheritance, the grace of it the equal of my grace.

8 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 9 The hands of Zorobabel have laid the foundation of this house, and his hands shall finish it: and thou shalt know that the Lord Almighty has sent me to thee. 10 For who has despised the small days? surely they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet of tin in the hand of Zorobabel: these are the seven eyes that look upon all the earth. 11 And I answered, and said to him, What are these two olive-trees, which are on the right and left hand of the candlestick? 12 And I asked the second time, and said to him, What are the two branches of the olive-trees that are by the side of the two golden pipes that pour into and communicate with the golden oil funnels? 13 And he said to me, Knowest thou not what these are? and I said, No, my lord. 14 And he said, These are the two anointed ones that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.LXX

And the seven lamps?...:

Revelation 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from Him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before His throne;

Notice the similarity between this verse and the one about the first beast? "was, and is not, and shall come." It's like the rider on the white horse borrowing godlike verses with "conquering and to conquer"... similar to "blessing I will bless you and multiplying I will multiply you." These are both copies pretending to be the real thing. The rider on the white horse must be the fake of Matthew 24:11... while Matthew 24:24 is the beast and the false prophet... the riders on the red and black horses... with the pale horse as the serpent's last ride.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: pdudgeon
Upvote 0

Marilyn C

Pre-tribulation.
Supporter
Dec 26, 2013
4,814
596
Victoria
✟593,109.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
When do 2 Witnesses die and lay there on ground for 3,5 days?


Do I understand it correctly that 7 year tribulation starts , 2 witnessess are send and they preach untill Middle of the week , then they are overcomed by the Beast who is doing Abomination of Desolation same day and then 3,5 days after they resurrect ?

Are they warning people to not take the Mark of Beast ?

Hi savedbygrace,

The A/C rules in the last part of the trib. (Rev. 13: 5) and thus the 2 witnesses are killed by him at the end of his rule, just before the Lord comes in power and great glory with His mighty angels.`

regards, Marilyn.
 
Upvote 0

Ligurian

Cro-Magnon
Apr 21, 2021
3,589
536
America
✟22,234.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Private
1st, as the Antichrist, the King of Israel, at around the 3 year mark, he goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood 2Thessalonians2:4 kjv. The Jews will be mortified, and will refuse him from continuing as their King of Israel - ending his time as the Antichrist.


Daniel 9:27 And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away: and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of time an end shall be put to the desolation.LXX

Isaiah 28:14 Therefore hear ye the word of the Lord, ye afflicted men, and ye princes of this people that is in Jerusalem. 15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with Hades, and agreements with death; if the rushing storm should pass, it shall not come upon us: we have made falsehood our hope, and by falsehood shall we be protected: 16 Therefore thus saith the Lord, even the Lord, Behold, I lay for the foundations of Sion a costly stone, a choice, a corner-stone, a precious stone, for its foundations; and he that believes on him shall by no means be ashamed. 17 And I will cause judgment to be for hope, and my compassion shall be for just measures, and ye that trust vainly in falsehood shall fall: for the storm shall by no means pass by you, 18 except it also take away your covenant of death, and your trust in Hades shall by no means stand: if the rushing storm should come upon you, ye shall be beaten down by it. 19 Whenever it shall pass by, it shall take you; morning by morning it shall pass by in the day, and in the night there shall be an evil hope.LXX

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Ezekiel 28:16 Of the abundance of thy merchandise thou hast filled thy storehouses with iniquity, and hast sinned: therefore thou hast been cast down wounded from the mount of God, and the cherub has brought thee out of the midst of the stones of fire.LXX
 
Upvote 0

Ligurian

Cro-Magnon
Apr 21, 2021
3,589
536
America
✟22,234.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Private
Hi savedbygrace,

The A/C rules in the last part of the trib. (Rev. 13: 5) and thus the 2 witnesses are killed by him at the end of his rule, just before the Lord comes in power and great glory with His mighty angels.`

regards, Marilyn.

Sorry, that can't happen. Because the people in Jerusalem will flee for their lives when they see this Resurrection of Life and realize that what Jesus said was true... then the multitude which believes the witnesses will be taken through the Great Tribulation where they'll be beheaded for keeping the Commandments of God and having the Testimony of Jesus.
During this time, the church of Laodicea will either let Jesus into His own church or they won't. Because it seems to me that this is a church-testing... the same kind of testing that happened to the Hebrews in the OT. We see the churches being warned, splitting up... some being persecuted, some getting worse... and being split up again, in Revelation's letters to the churches. God spoke to them face to face at Sinai, and they chose Moses. God spoke again through Jesus... it's always a pass or fail.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: pdudgeon
Upvote 0

Freth

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jul 11, 2020
1,505
1,823
Midwest, USA
✟372,480.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
When do 2 Witnesses die and lay there on ground for 3,5 days?


Do I understand it correctly that 7 year tribulation starts , 2 witnessess are send and they preach untill Middle of the week , then they are overcomed by the Beast who is doing Abomination of Desolation same day and then 3,5 days after they resurrect ?

Are they warning people to not take the Mark of Beast ?

I do not believe the two witnesses refer to actual men. Here's why.

If we look at Revelation 11 is in symbolic language. In verse 2, we see a 42 month prophecy.

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
In verse 3, it gives the same prophetic time, but in days.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.​

Forty two months (30 days per month) is 1260 days. The 1260 day prophecy is actually a 1260 year prophecy, if we use the day for a year principle for prophecy (Numbers 14:34, Ezekiel 4:6).

The 1260 year prophecy (Revelation 13:5, Revelation 12:6) took place between 538 AD and 1798 AD, the dark ages. Notice that in verse three (above), we see that the two witnesses are clothed in sackcloth (darkness). The Bible was kept out of the hands of the people and it had to be translated in secret and smuggled to distribute it. There was Christian persecution and millions were killed.

In verse 4 we see two olive trees and two candlesticks.

Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Olive trees provide oil (Holy Spirit) for lamps/candlesticks (the word of God, light). We see this in Zechariah 4:1-10 also.

Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.​

Given the symbolic language, the two witnesses are the Old and New Testaments—the word of God.

In verse 5 we see that there are consequences to hurting the witnesses.

Revelation 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Fire represents the Holy Spirit, but also the wrath of God and the lake of fire (Deuteronomy 9:3, Revelation 20:14-15).

Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Symbolic language. Shut heaven, means being cut off from God. Rain being another symbol for the Holy Spirit, but can also mean actual drought (or drought of the Holy Spirit).

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Satan waging war against God and His word, which happened in a big way during the French Revolution. The French Revolution having started at the end of the prophesied 1260 years.

Revelation 11:8-10 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Spiritual Sodom and Gomorrah (symbolic). The absence of God. During the French Revolution, God's word was burned in the streets.

Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.​

The 3 1/2 days (prophetic years) appear to be the years before the end of the dark ages (1793-1797) and events surrounding the French Revolution, which took place in 1798. In the same year, the deadly wound spoken of in Revelation 13:3 would take place when the Pope Pius VI was taken prisoner by French general Berthier (and would later die). The end to the dark ages and Christian persecution.

God's word, however, came back from persecution stronger than ever and went to the world.

Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.​

We see that God's word is elevated; raised to heaven (symbolic).

Revelation 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.​

Earthquakes cause destruction, but can also be used to symbolize change. Big changes did occur surrounding these events. Seven thousand is symbolic and points to God's hand in the changes that took place.

How can we know this is in the past? The 1260 year prophecy. How can we know that Revelation 11 is symbolic? It's describing prophecy, which is symbolic.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,689
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,795.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,689
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,795.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Daniel 9:27 And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away: and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of time an end shall be put to the desolation.LXX

Isaiah 28:14 Therefore hear ye the word of the Lord, ye afflicted men, and ye princes of this people that is in Jerusalem. 15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with Hades, and agreements with death; if the rushing storm should pass, it shall not come upon us: we have made falsehood our hope, and by falsehood shall we be protected: 16 Therefore thus saith the Lord, even the Lord, Behold, I lay for the foundations of Sion a costly stone, a choice, a corner-stone, a precious stone, for its foundations; and he that believes on him shall by no means be ashamed. 17 And I will cause judgment to be for hope, and my compassion shall be for just measures, and ye that trust vainly in falsehood shall fall: for the storm shall by no means pass by you, 18 except it also take away your covenant of death, and your trust in Hades shall by no means stand: if the rushing storm should come upon you, ye shall be beaten down by it. 19 Whenever it shall pass by, it shall take you; morning by morning it shall pass by in the day, and in the night there shall be an evil hope.LXX

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Ezekiel 28:16 Of the abundance of thy merchandise thou hast filled thy storehouses with iniquity, and hast sinned: therefore thou hast been cast down wounded from the mount of God, and the cherub has brought thee out of the midst of the stones of fire.LXX
Deuteronomy 31:9 And Moses wrote the words of this law in a book, and gave it to the priests the sons of Levi who bear the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and to the elders of the sons of Israel.

10 And Moses charged them in that day, saying, After seven years, in the time of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles, 11 when all Israel come together to appear before the Lord your God, in the place which the Lord shall choose, ye shall read this law before all Israel in their ears, 12 having assembled the people, the men, and the women, and the children, and the stranger that is in your cities, that they may hear, and that they may learn to fear the Lord your God; and they shall hearken to do all the words of this law. 13 And their sons who have not known shall hear, and shall learn to fear the Lord thy God all the days that they live upon the land, into which ye go over Jordan to inherit it.
LXX.

The above verses is the confirmation of the covenant to be done on a 7 years cycle...i.e. for 7 years. The Jews, Judaism, I have talked to say that they temple mount is the place which God has chosen that the law be read to the assembly of the nation. Which of course can not be done under present conditions because of the Muslims.

But following Gog/Magog, it will be possible.

The KJV reads similarly as the LXX for Deuteronomy 31:9-13. You are mixing the LXX with the KJV which is not a good idea, because the LXX conflicts with not only the KJV in certain areas, but also the Hebrew scriptures, like is provided at the Chabad.org site, which has both the Hebrew and English translation.

The Antichrist, anointed the King of Israel, by the false prophet, will have that law read to the nation of Israel from the temple mount - and that is what will begin the 70th week.

Being anointed the King of Israel (but coming in his own name) is what makes the person the Antichrist.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,689
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,795.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The A/C rules in the last part of the trib. (Rev. 13: 5) and thus the 2 witnesses are killed by him at the end of his rule, just before the Lord comes in power and great glory with His mighty angels.`
Weil, the person is the beast in Revelation 13, no longer the Antichrist.

And since the people of the world say "who is able to make war with the beast?" Revelation 13:4, it implies that he has already killed the two witnesses that he has made war against.

Which would put the testimony of the two witnesses in the first half of the 7 years... before his 42 month rule which ends with Jesus's return.

Also, the world celebrates the deaths of the two witnesses, exchanging presents. Which would not be reasonable to think that would occur in a world nearly destroyed by the great tribulation, right before Jesus returns.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,563
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,794.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Sorry, that can't happen
I agree with Marylin on this.
Revelation 11:1-3 says the Temple court is given over to ungodly people for 42 months when the 2 Witnesses will be there.
This is paralleled with Revelation 12:6-9 & 13:5-8, the final 3 1/2, 42 month and 1260 day period before Jesus Returns.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Marilyn C
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,563
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,794.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Also, the world celebrates the deaths of the two witnesses, exchanging presents. Which would not be reasonable to think that would occur in a world nearly destroyed by the great tribulation, right before Jesus returns.
But it is, because that is what Revelation 11:9-15 says.
The terrible disasters of the GT, do not kill that many, only at Armageddon is the ungodly; mass slaughtered. Revelation 19:21
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,689
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,795.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
But it is, because that is what Revelation 11:9-15 says.
The terrible disasters of the GT, do not kill that many, only at Armageddon is the ungodly; mass slaughtered. Revelation 19:21
It is not just the numbers that are killed during the great tribulation that is the issue, but the conditions right before Jesus returns, the world will be in shambles, shortage of drinking water, food, men scorched by the sun, no green grass, starvation, corpses littering the landscape, an eroded landscape, disease .... and for some reason you think that the world is going to be celebrating exchanging presents under those conditions?

When the two witnesses are killed on day 1260, the great tribulation will have just be beginning on day 1185 of the 7 years... the day that the image of the beast is placed on the temple mount, the signal for the Jews in Judaea to flee to the mountains, hopefully not on the sabbath (which is a day of travel restriction for them) as it is written in Matthew 24:20.
 
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
IMHO, they will be preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, which may or may not include the Revelation... because the Seven Thunders are sealed.


What is your understanding of the Mark of the Beast?
John would be a likely candidate for one of them. We know he was there. Well I am sure some will think otherwise. He was writing when, he was told to seal up the Thunders.

If John was writing, was he literally writing, or did he have to make a duplicate copy later?
 
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
It is not just the numbers that are killed during the great tribulation that is the issue, but the conditions right before Jesus returns, the world will be in shambles, shortage of drinking water, food, men scorched by the sun, no green grass, starvation, corpses littering the landscape, an eroded landscape, disease .... and for some reason you think that the world is going to be celebrating exchanging presents under those conditions?

When the two witnesses are killed on day 1260, the great tribulation will have just be beginning on day 1185 of the 7 years... the day that the image of the beast is placed on the temple mount, the signal for the Jews in Judaea to flee to the mountains, hopefully not on the sabbath (which is a day of travel restriction for them) as it is written in Matthew 24:20.
You would probably make a better movie scenario than the left behind series, but I think your timing is all over the place. There is not even a 7 year period with a mid way point. The last 42 months, may be an utopia given by Satan for all we know. Not sure why some call Satan's 42 months the Great Tribulation. We do not even know anything about those 42 months. They are not covered by the Trumpets nor Thunders. Christ Himself is in earth gathering the final harvest during the Trumpets. The angels are collecting souls from one end of creation to the other. 2 billion die in the Seals leading up to the Trumpets. 2 billion die during the Trumpets, and if the math carries on into the Thunders, 2 billion more. With 6 billion souls leaving the earth, that is why it is the Great Tribulation. It is literally the final harvest. That any one is left for Satan's 42 months, is the only reason for those 42 months to exist. Not all souls were harvested. The last harvest are those beheaded. Any one at Armageddon will be only the winepress left of reprobate souls, not found in the Lamb's book of life.

Yes these people will be high on success and good fortune. Only the 2 witnesses are giving them grief. When they die, the party begins. But very short lived. That party is when the 7 vials are poured out for 3 days, leading up to the final hour at the battle of Armageddon.

The 2 witnesses are only during Satan's 42 months. The 144k are doing the evangelism during the Trumpets and Thunders. Now they may play some roll, earlier, but their witness happens after this point:

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The 144k are driven out of Jerusalem and found on Mt. Zion. The week of the 7th Trumpet is cut in half, when the 144k are defeated and leave Jerusalem. The 3.5 days the 2 witnesses are dead, is the last half of that week. The 42 months are an interruption just like Daniel 9:27 claims. The 144k leave Jerusalem and the celebration of the 7th Trumpet ceases. The desolation ends at Armageddon. The next day starts the Millennium. A new heaven and earth, after all that goes on from the 4th Seal to Armageddon.

Desolation to God, is the opposite for Satan's bunch. They will be having the time of their lives, thinking Satan has given them all of their desires. That is why they start to party, when Satan removes the pain being caused by the two witnesses, by thinking they were dead. The vials are poured out, the 2 witnesses arise, and ascend to heaven, then the nations gather at Megiddo. At least what is left of them.

I think that all humanity will be migrating towards Jerusalem starting at the Second Coming in the Seals. Matthew 25 all ready has the sheep and goats coming out of the Nations from all over the map. I think the conditions of the earth will deteriorate to the point, only the ME will be habitable. It is prophecied that when Christ returns, Jerusalem will be changed and rivers flow out of it. The rest of the earth could be going through Great Tribulation and Jerusalem and the ME will be the place of safety. It is then turned over to Satan for 42 months. People will still be making their way there this whole time.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,689
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,795.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
You would probably make a better movie scenario than the left behind series, but I think your timing is all over the place. There is not even a 7 year period with a mid way point.
That there is a 7 year period is certain because of the "infallible" timeline framwork in Ezekiel 39.

Gog/Magog; then the 7 year period; then Armageddon v17-20; then Jesus Himself speaking in v21-29, having return to earth and recounting the past 2000 of the Jewish diaspora.

In Revelation are time elements that fit into the 7 year period.

Revelation 11:3 and 12:6 - the 1260 days - the first half.

Revelation 11:11 - the 3 1/2 days - the beginning of the second half.

Revelation 11:2 and 13:5 - the 42 months - the rule of the beast - the second half

Revelation 12:14 - the time/times/ half time - Satan's remaining time - the second half

The last 42 months, may be an utopia given by Satan for all we know.

It will not be an utopia for Satan, because he will be forced down to earth and will be in great wrath because he will know his time is limited to a time/times/half time.


Not sure why some call Satan's 42 months the Great Tribulation
Tim, "Satan's 42 months" is your terminology. Are you borrowing that terminology from some bible commentator?

The 42 months are considered the great tribulation because the abomination of desolation - the statue image of the beast - will have been setup on the temple mount 1335 days before Jesus returns to remove it. 1335 days before Jesus returns is day 1185 on the 7 year timeline. Day 1260 is the exact middle.

Tim, here is a chart I just made.... you may have to click on this link to make it big enough to read. https://www.christianforums.com/dat.../349337_cce8d8d2c345f4f78325a66428de61f9.jpeg

upload_2021-6-27_6-21-56.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Jeffwhosoever

Faithful Servant & Seminary Student
Christian Forums Staff
Chaplain
Angels Team
Supporter
Sep 21, 2009
28,129
3,878
Southern US
✟391,377.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
My countdown clock to the tribulation is 11:59:59 PM (or 23:59:59 in military time) and all that remains is that last second tick of the second hand. I keep wondering what it will feel like to fly thru my roof up to the clouds or if we'll be out for the fast ride up. I've seen it in a dream before - long before I knew anything about the bible or the fact the world would eventually end. I was about 6 years old. I told my parents I saw the earth being destroyed with orange tornadoes and asked what did it mean, and they didn't have a clue. Two years ago when I saw a photo of a Firenado, I knew what I had seen 51 years ago. It wasn't orange torndoes, but Firenados, in my dream, or perhaps vision, at age 6. I had been to church with my grandparents a time or two by then, but all I heard were stories about Daniel and the lion's den and Jonah and the whale and other bible stories you tell to young children. Nothing I had seen nor heard caused that dream I had at age 6. The good news is in another dream I saw the new heaven and new earth and it was gorgeous. I openly cried when I woke up cause I had just been with relatives I had not seen in 20 years, and I didn't want to still be here! That was about 10 years ago. I thought all Christians had dreams like this, but turns out when I asked around, I'm the oddball. Strangely enough, as I am studying Revelation for the first time in my life, it all seems to fit what was prophecied, 2000 years ago. Simply amazing.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0