Believe in Jesus and you will be saved

Soyeong

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No. . .saving faith in Jesus Christ is faith in and trust on his person and atoning work (blood--Romans 3:25) for the remission
of one's sin
and right standing with God's justice; i.e., "not guilty," sanctified.
"Having faith in God's nature" is extraneous to saving faith.

If you agree that Jesus is the exact expression of God's nature, then I don't see how you can deny that having faith in Jesus is the same as faith in God's nature. Faith in and trust on his person is faith in and trust on the nature of God because his person is the nature of God. Good works are those actions that are in accordance with God's nature while sins are those actions that are against God's nature. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for good works, so faith in the atoning work for the remission of one's sin and right standing with God is the same as having faith in God's nature. It is contradictory for someone to not have faith in God's nature for how we should live while thinking that the need atonement for not acting in accordance with God's nature.

More torquing of Scripture to allow the salvation of Orthodox Jews who reject Jesus Christ.
One foot in, one foot out.

Anathema! (curem)

I don't believe that the Bible allows for the salvation of Orthodox Jews who reject Jesus Christ, but I can't stop you from making up stuff about what I believe.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Isaiah 41:22 "Let them bring forth and show us what will happen; Let them show the former things, what they were, That we may consider them, And know the latter end of them; Or declare to us things to come. NKJV]

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,' NKJV

If one knows how a thing began then we know how it will end.

Genesis 2: 17 God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil or he would surely die. Genesis 3:17 Adam believed Eve and ate the forbidden fruit.

Sin and death began when Adam did not believe God.

Genesis 15:6 Abraham was accounted righteous when he believed God.

Isaiah 28: 16 Whoever believes in the cornerstone will not be put to shame.

The OT message was believe God and be saved. When one believes God they have repented of the original sin.

1 Peter 1: 20-21 through Jesus we believe in God.

1John 5:10 he who believes in the Son has the witness in himself. He who does not believe has called God a liar.

Salvation is guaranteed as long as one believes in Jesus. When we believe, trusting in His completed work, we come in as a child trusting the Father. By realizing that Jesus has done all that is needed for salvation we are giving Him all the praise, glory and honor that is due Him. If we claim that we need to do anything other than believe, we are taking some of Jesus' glory.

To bring God glory and honor we will repent of all sin. That shows God and the world that we love Him more than the world or worldly pleasures. The pleasures of the flesh are far far less than the pleasures of being a loved child of God. To love God with all one's heart, mind ,soul and strength is what He deserves. No work is done for salvation. Any work done is to bring Him glory, honor and praise.

So I can do anything I want and as long as I believe in Christ I will be saved?
 
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BNR32FAN

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I see, so you think Paul is also teaching us that "If you don't love then you may not be a Christian"?

Loving others is a requirement for us to stay a Christian?

Absolutely it is.

“If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13:1-3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬
 
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Guojing

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Absolutely it is.

“If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13:1-3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

You believe he is saying you have lost your salvation there?
 
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fli

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So I can do anything I want and as long as I believe in Christ I will be saved?

I believe what the scriptures say on this matter. Here's what the scriptures say say?

1 Cor 6:12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. NKJV

1 Cor 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. NKJV

Paul, who grew up under the law. states that all things are lawful for him in Jesus. He got his information direct from Jesus. He says the same thing in a different way in Romans.

Rom 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin." NKJV

If anyone believes in Jesus his faith is accounted for righteousness.

Verse 8 if one is in Jesus God does not impute sin to that person. In verse 6 God imputes righteousness apart from works. Apart from works means that works have nothing to do with a believers righteousness.

Yes, I say that all things are lawful to those who are in Jesus. I say that because that is what Paul says.
 
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Butterball1

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So I am asking you, based on how you understand Romans 5:12-19
  1. Who was the one that sinned unto death, was it Adam's sin or your own sin?
  2. Who was the one who was obedient unto righteousness, was it Christ's obedience or your own obedience?
Once you understand that, you can now understand Romans 6:16 in context. Romans 6 is after Romans 5.

Each man chooses to sin his own sin and therefore bring about his own spiritually death having chosen to serve "sin unto death".

Those in Acts 2, for example, who obeyed Peter's command to repent and be baptized were the ones who were "obedient unto righteousness". Those Romans to whom Paul was addressing had "obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine" then they were freed from sin/justified habing chosen to serve 'obedience unto righteousness".

So it is man choosing to sin, choosing to serve sin that makes man a sinner and man choosing to obey God's will that makes man righteous.

Christ's obedience was perfect thereby making Him perfectly righteous. Man's obedience in submitting to water baptism thereby putting on Christ (Galatians 3:27) and being in Christ one then is clothed in Christ's perfect righteousness therefore seen by God as righteous thru Christ. But it takes obedience on man's part for his to happen.
Because Christ was obedient does not unconditionally save everyone, But only those who obey Christ (Hebrews 5:9), those who "obey unto righteousness" are the ones who take advantage of Christ's perfect obedience. Those who choose to serve 'sin unto death' miss out on what Christ provided by His perfect obedience.

Hence Romans 6:16 is giving man the two masters to which man chooses to serve. Man either chooses for himself to be lost by serving sin unto death or be saved by choosing to serve obedience unto righteousness. Being lost or saved are the only two options there are for man to choose from. Christ does not make these choices for man, but Christ's obedience makes "saved" an option that man can choose by choosing to serve 'obedience unto righteousness'.
 
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Guojing

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Each man chooses to sin his own sin and therefore bring about his own spiritually death having chosen to serve "sin unto death".

Those in Acts 2, for example, who obeyed Peter's command to repent and be baptized were the ones who were "obedient unto righteousness". Those Romans to whom Paul was addressing had "obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine" then they were freed from sin/justified habing chosen to serve 'obedience unto righteousness".

So it is man choosing to sin, choosing to serve sin that makes man a sinner and man choosing to obey God's will that makes man righteous.

Christ's obedience was perfect thereby making Him perfectly righteous. Man's obedience in submitting to water baptism thereby putting on Christ (Galatians 3:27) and being in Christ one then is clothed in Christ's perfect righteousness therefore seen by God as righteous thru Christ. But it takes obedience on man's part for his to happen.
Because Christ was obedient does not unconditionally save everyone, But only those who obey Christ (Hebrews 5:9), those who "obey unto righteousness" are the ones who take advantage of Christ's perfect obedience. Those who choose to serve 'sin unto death' miss out on what Christ provided by His perfect obedience.

Hence Romans 6:16 is giving man the two masters to which man chooses to serve. Man either chooses for himself to serve sin unto death or be saved by choosing to serve obedience unto righteousness. Being lost or saved are the only two options there are for man to choose from.

I was asking about Romans 5:12-19. Did you read those verses to answer those questions?
 
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BNR32FAN

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I believe what the scriptures say on this matter. Here's what the scriptures say say?

1 Cor 6:12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. NKJV

1 Cor 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. NKJV

Paul, who grew up under the law. states that all things are lawful for him in Jesus. He got his information direct from Jesus. He says the same thing in a different way in Romans.

Rom 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin." NKJV

If anyone believes in Jesus his faith is accounted for righteousness.

Verse 8 if one is in Jesus God does not impute sin to that person. In verse 6 God imputes righteousness apart from works. Apart from works means that works have nothing to do with a believers righteousness.

Yes, I say that all things are lawful to those who are in Jesus. I say that because that is what Paul says.

Hmmm that doesn’t line up with what he said in Ephesians 4:17-31 and Ephesians 5:1-6.
 
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Butterball1

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I was asking about Romans 5:12-19. Did you read those verses to answer those questions?
Romans 6:16 are two options men chooses for himself for Christ does not choose for man which of those two options man will serve. Christ does not choose for men which ones will be saved or lost.

Romans 5:18 shows that Christ's righteous obedience provides a remedy for all those who have been affected by sin since sin entered the world thru Adam. Those men who choose for themselves to serve "obedience unto righteousness" take advantage of the remedy for sin that Christ's one act of righteounsess provides. Therefore being saved is a choice man chooses for himself by choosing to serve 'obedience unto righteousness" thereby taking the remedy.
 
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Guojing

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Romans 6:16 are two options men chooses for himself for Christ does not choose for man which of those two options man will serve. Christ does not choose for men which ones will be saved or lost.

Romans 5:18 shows that Christ's righteous obedience provides a remedy for all those who have been affected by sin since sin entered the world thru Adam. Those men who choose for themselves to serve "obedience unto righteousness" take advantage of the remedy for sin that Christ's one act of righteounsess provides. Therefore being saved is a choice man chooses for himself by choosing to serve 'obedience unto righteousness" thereby taking the remedy.

So you agree sin entered the world thru Adam's disobedience, while righteousness entered the world thru Christ's obedience.

Alright then, we agree on something.
 
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fli

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Hmmm that doesn’t line up with what he said in Ephesians 4:17-31 and Ephesians 5:1-6.

Yes, in Ephesians Paul urged believers to not sin. Paul says that believers should not walk as before. He is not “fitting” for believers to be in sin. In all his epistles he urged Christians not to sin. In Romans He himself although a new man still struggled with the old man. If Paul could still struggle, after being in the third heaven, how much more so we who have not.

As Paul stated in the scriptures cited in 1Corinthians not all thing are helpful. Not everything is good for those who are disobedient. Romans 8: 28 all things work for the good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose. In His perfect will God called each and everyone of us to do good deeds and bring Him glory. He equipped us to do those deeds. Yet His perfect will is not always done by every believer. Some of those called do not use those gifts for the purpose He has given.

1Corinthians 6:7-11 who was Paul talking to when he said certain types of sinners would not enter into the kingdom of God? In verse 10 he states no drunks will go to heaven. Yet in 1 Corinthians 11: 27-32 he indicates some were abusing the Lords supper. Those who got drunk and were guilty of the blood and body of Christ. He said some were presently sick and some had went to sleep because of this abuse. If Paul says a believer goes to sleep he means they went to heaven. Those who abused the Lord's supper and did not repent went to heaven without fulfilling the purpose God had for them. Their dying was not for their good. It was for the good of the Church.

Those Corinthians who went to sleep were not in the Spirit. They were carnally minded and wanted to eat, drink and be merry. In doing so they disrupted those who were honoring Jesus. As Paul stated in Romans 8: 6 for believers to be carnally minded is death. God put the carnally minded Corinthians under discipline which ended in their dying temporally. Had they repent disciplined would have ended.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Yes, in Ephesians Paul urged believers to not sin. Paul says that believers should not walk as before. He is not “fitting” for believers to be in sin. In all his epistles he urged Christians not to sin. In Romans He himself although a new man still struggled with the old man. If Paul could still struggle, after being in the third heaven, how much more so we who have not.

As Paul stated in the scriptures cited in 1Corinthians not all thing are helpful. Not everything is good for those who are disobedient. Romans 8: 28 all things work for the good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose. In His perfect will God called each and everyone of us to do good deeds and bring Him glory. He equipped us to do those deeds. Yet His perfect will is not always done by every believer. Some of those called do not use those gifts for the purpose He has given.

1Corinthians 6:7-11 who was Paul talking to when he said certain types of sinners would not enter into the kingdom of God? In verse 10 he states no drunks will go to heaven. Yet in 1 Corinthians 11: 27-32 he indicates some were abusing the Lords supper. Those who got drunk and were guilty of the blood and body of Christ. He said some were presently sick and some had went to sleep because of this abuse. If Paul says a believer goes to sleep he means they went to heaven. Those who abused the Lord's supper and did not repent went to heaven without fulfilling the purpose God had for them. Their dying was not for their good. It was for the good of the Church.

Those Corinthians who went to sleep were not in the Spirit. They were carnally minded and wanted to eat, drink and be merry. In doing so they disrupted those who were honoring Jesus. As Paul stated in Romans 8: 6 for believers to be carnally minded is death. God put the carnally minded Corinthians under discipline which ended in their dying temporally. Had they repent disciplined would have ended.

Amen, and some people seem to forget that Peter denied Christ 3 times after he was born again. It’s amazing how many people will fight the scriptures to hang on their precious doctrines.
 
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I believe what the scriptures say on this matter. Here's what the scriptures say say?

1 Cor 6:12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. NKJV

1 Cor 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. NKJV

Paul, who grew up under the law. states that all things are lawful for him in Jesus. He got his information direct from Jesus. He says the same thing in a different way in Romans.

Rom 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin." NKJV

If anyone believes in Jesus his faith is accounted for righteousness.

Verse 8 if one is in Jesus God does not impute sin to that person. In verse 6 God imputes righteousness apart from works. Apart from works means that works have nothing to do with a believers righteousness.

Yes, I say that all things are lawful to those who are in Jesus. I say that because that is what Paul says.

“In Jesus”, what exactly does that mean?

“By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:3-6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬
 
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fli

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Amen, and some people seem to forget that Peter denied Christ 3 times after he was born again. It’s amazing how many people will fight the scriptures to hang on their precious doctrines.

Thank you for your reply

Peter did have problems after being born again. But I believe that he was not born again until Jesus breathed on Him. Jesus is the Son of God. In biblical terms Jesus is the seed of God. 1 Peter 1: 23 we need God's seed in us to be born again. As Jesus said in John 12:24 until He died and went into the ground He could not produce a crop.

Sorry I prepared my answer and by then you had posted again. John 14: 20 He is in us and we are in Him. By extension we must also be in the Father. However, as I see it if we were not in Him we could not be in the Father. Everything depends on Jesus. As long as we believe in Jesus we are in Him.

To continue:

Romans 8: 13 the Corinthians were carnally minded and God's discipline resulted in their death. Those who abused the lord's supper had the Spirit of Jesus. By Romans 8: 10 the body is dead with just the Spirit of Jesus. To give life to the body a Christian needs the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus. In order to continue living a Christian needs the Spirit of the Father. If a Christian is walking in the Spirit they have the Father's Spirit. If they are living to the flesh a Christian will lose the Fathers Spirit at the point discipline results in the believers death. This is supported by John 15:1-2 the Father will take away any branch not producing fruit. This is also supported by James 2: 26 the body without the Spirit is dead. If we die does that mean that our faith is dead?


By Romans 8: 24 hope that is seen is not hope. When we go to sleep we are with Jesus in heaven. Therefore; our hope in salvation is dead. Hebrews 11: 1 saving faith is the substance of things hoped for. Saving faith requires hope. That hope must be in Jesus. When we see Jesus we no longer hope to be with Him. Our faith is dead.

Carnally minded Christians will be put to death under the Father's discipline unless they repent. The carnally minded cannot produce fruit under discipline. Therefore, they have no works. At the point of temporal death the Father's Spirit leaves us and our body is dead. When we get to heaven our hope is dead and faith dies. This is supported by James2:26 “faith without works is dead.”
 
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