Salvation vs : service.

Sidon said:

I did more then read it. I studied it and discerned it.

So, let me explain your verse you posted, so that the readers can see it..

James said, to the believers ....."faith without works is dead".
Then James says this, teaching them what he means..
"i will show YOU , MY Faith, by my works'. = spiritual "fruit".

See that?

Why did he say that?
Because when faith is real vs, stagnate and cold, then your life reflects it, as "works". "fruit".

So, if your faith is dead then you are backslidden, and you are not focused at all on the things of God.
This is DEMAS...who was born again, and a Part of Paul's ministry, but got caught up in the world, and left it all.

Where is He now?
He is with all the born again who have died since Christ was Crucified.


Finally. ..... Notice that James says "dead faith< but is careful to not say...>dead salvation.

Notice that, and then in the future when a deceiver tries to make you feel that you can lose your salvation, by misquoting James, you will know what they are, instantly.

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I am sorry, but your eisegesis makes no sense, even if examined on an eisegetical level, because why would James warn us of dead faith if it was not a threat to our salvation?.

However, if we examine James exegetically, by factoring in the rest of scripture as best we can, we come up with an even more compelling interpretation of James in opposition to the OSAS error: if we refer to John 3:16, faith in Christ is salvific. If your faith is dead, therefore, it must be resuscitated to preserve your salvation or you risk falling into apostasy or hypocrisy. This is what the holy apostles St. James and St. Paul both warn us about (Indeed Paul warns us many times and in many places, even in 1 Corinthians 11, which concludes with the dangers of partaking of the Eucharist with a dead faith or a hypocritical faith seriously compromised by unrepented sin).

The Liturgist said:

** I would further all of the Solas require a canonical explanation, which Luther, Melancthon, Calvin, Knox, and the Anglican divines from Cranmer to then present do provide, although I lament the inconsistency between the denominations themselves, the inconsistency over time, especially over the past century in the case of the mainline Protestant churches, and the inconsistency of many Protestant exegetes with their Patristic counterparts, with some notable exceptions, such as Jan Hus (who is venerated as a saint in the autocephalous Eastern Orthodox Church of the Czech Lands and Slovakia) and John Wesley, and several more recent figures, such as Dr. Rowan Williams. But the five solas are not actually as big a problem as some allege; many of the most vocal advocates of a given sola on this forum, on closer examination of their arguments, are either not actually using, for instance, sola scriptura, but nuda scriptura, or else relying on an authoritative third party interpreter who their denomination teaches them to listen to.

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How do you define nuda scriptura that differs from sola scriptura?

MMXX said:

It seems like there's such a zeal these days to preach comment, obedience and perseverance - the Cross, the Blood and the Resurrection of Christ gets left out of the message. Greatly emphasizing Jesus' role as Lord, while downplaying or altogether avoiding Jesus as Savior through the Cross and the Resurrection. Almost as if that's just a feel good fairy tale, and how well we perform is what it's really all about. Just like Judaism, Islam, LDS, JW, Hinduism, Buddhism being Woke.

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So true. I am loving your posts, brother.

The Liturgist said:

So true. I am loving your posts, brother.

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Yes, I agree also that the entire Gospel, in context, is being left out by many.

Blessings

MMXX said:

It seems like there's such a zeal these days to preach commitment, obedience and perseverance - the Cross, the Blood and the Resurrection of Christ gets left out of the message. Greatly emphasizing Jesus' role as Lord, while downplaying or altogether avoiding Jesus as Savior through the Cross and the Resurrection. Almost as if that's just a feel good fairy tale, whereas how well we perform is what it's really all about. Just like Judaism, Islam, LDS, JW, Hinduism, Buddhism, and being Woke.

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From what I have seen the cross is not being left out, but rather, we see that Lord Jesus who died for our sins is frequently denied as Lord whom we are to follow.

The Scriptures are clear throughout that Lord Jesus died to save us from the penalty and power of sin over our lives - which is salvation.

Isaiah 55:7; Matthew 5:13; Matthew 5:23-26; Matthew 6:14-15; Matthew 7:21; Matthew 10:21-22; Matthew 10:32-39; Matthew 16:24-26; Matthew 19:29; Matthew 24:9-14; Matthew 24:42-51; Matthew 25:1-13; Matthew 25:31-46; Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 8:34-38; Mark 9:42-50; Mark 13:13; Mark 13:35-37; Luke 8:21; Luke 9:23-26; Luke 11:27- 28; Luke 12:8-9; Luke 12:35-48; Luke 13:3-5; Luke 13:6-9; Luke 17:32-33; Luke 18:9-14; Luke 21:19; Luke 21:34-36; Luke 24:45-48; John 3:14-17; John 3:18; John 4:13-14; John 5:24; John 6:51; John 7:37-39; John 8:31-32; John 10:27-29; John 12:25-26; John 14:15-16; John 15:5-10; John 20:30-31; Acts 10:34-35; Acts 3:19-20; Acts 14:21-22; Acts 20:18-21; Acts 20:28-32; Acts 26:19-20; Romans 6; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 8:12-13; Romans 11:19-22; 1 Corinthians 6:7-11; 1 Corinthians 9:23-27; 1 Corinthians 10:1-12; 1 Corinthians 15:1-2; 2 Corinthians 11:1-5; Galatians 3:21-22; Galatians 3:26-27; Galatians 4:9-11; Galatians 5:1-6; Galatians 5:13-26; Galatians 6:7-10; Ephesians 3:16-17; Ephesians 4:1-3; Ephesians 4:17-31; Ephesians 5:1-11; Ephesians 6:10-20; 1 Philippians 2:14-16; Philippians 3:7-11; Philippians 3:12-14; Colossians 1:21-23; 1 Timothy 1:18-20; 1 Timothy 4:1-8; 1 Timothy 4:13-16; 1 Timothy 6:18-21; 2 Timothy 2:10-13; Hebrews 2:1-4; Hebrews 3:6-14; Hebrews 3:12; Hebrews 4:1-11; Hebrews 5:8-10; Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 7:25; Hebrews 10:19-31; Hebrews 10:35-39; Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 12:1-13; Hebrews 12:14-17; Hebrews 12:25; James 1:12-16; James 5:19-20; 1 Peter 1:5; 1 Peter 1:6-9; 1 Peter 1:13-25; 1 Peter 3:21; 2 Peter 1:10-11; 2 Peter 2:1-2; 2 Peter 2:13-15; 2 Peter 2:17-32; 2 Peter 3:11-12; 2 Peter 3:17-18; 1 John 1:6-7; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 2:9-11; 1 John 2:15-17; 1 John 2:24-26; 1 John 2:28-29; 1 John 3:4-12; 1 John 3:14-15; 1 John 5:3-5; 1 John 3:19-24; 2 John 5:10-14; 1 John 5:18-20; 2 John 4-6; 2 John 9; Revelation 2:24-26; Revelation 3:1-5; Revelation 3:11-12; Revelation 3:15-22; Revelation 12:11; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12-13; Revelation 16:15; Revelation 19:6-8; Revelation 21:6-8; Revelation 22:14-15; Revelation 22:17

setst777 said: ↑
You say God doesn't save you so that you can be a disciple?

Sidon said:

Never said that.
Find that quote.
It does not exist.

Stop making stuff up, as this is not Honest.
Be honest.

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I linked your message to mine in the post you referred to with your very words:

Here is what you wrote:

Sidon said:

God does not save you so that you can become a disciple.

He saves you so that you can become a SON.

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How does your quote differ from what I stated that you wrote?

setst777 said: ↑
You really think that there is no change in life in the physical by living in the Spirit? What is the sense of living in the Spirit if it produces no change in life?

Notice, the Scripture teaches about a new life, crucified to the flesh with its passions and lusts, showing us that those who walk in the Spirit have this new life acted out in our physical lives.

Galatians 5:24-25 (WEB)
24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

Sidon said:

I have nothing to do with what you are stating.

I teach that God's Blood is God's redemption for the World.

John 14:6 and John 3:16

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Here is what you wrote that I responded to, which I linked to my message so you could see what you wrote.

Sidon said:

The spirit is not deeds you do with your body.

So, walking IN The Spirit, is a Spiritual situation, not a physical.

To walk in the SPIRIT, not the mind, not the body.

See it?

Read my Thread. "how to"

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Ligurian said:

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these words of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Context is everything.

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I agree with you in that we have to read the Bible in its proper context, but Jesus's message here is emphatic and very clear. We have to continue abiding in Him and remaining faithful to Him if we ever hope to be saved.

Sidon said:

I dont notice Calvin.
I only Teach Paul.

And the "once saved always saved", phrase you used, was created by a legalist who rejects the Cross, and does not understand the Blood Atonement.
And neither do his disciples.

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It is evident you are not a Calvinist, but my point was not that you were, but rather, the false doctrine you referred to, which is called Pelagianism, that we can save ourselves, is not violated by forms of Christianity other than Calvinism or OSAS. Indeed usually OSAS advocates don’t complain about Pelagianism, because most are evangelicals who compress the soteriological process into a single event, and that one event of believing or refusing to believe could go either way.

Anthony2019 said:

I agree with you in that we have to read the Bible in its proper context, but Jesus's message here is emphatic and very clear. We have to continue abiding in Him and remaining faithful to Him if we ever hope to be saved.

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Very true Brother. John 15:1-9 is a really clear Scripture that makes your point; however, I would not stop at verse 9, but also include verse 10, because it kind of explains and sums up what is meant by abiding in Christ, and is also how we bear fruit, remaining in Him.

John 15:8-10 (WEB)8 “In this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; and so you will be my disciples. 9 Even as the Father has loved me, I also have loved you. Remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and remain in his love.

IF the believer continues in His kindness by faith, he will not be cut off. No guarantees in Scripture that a believer will remain faithful to the end.

Romans 11:20-22 (WEB) 20 True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Blessings

Sidon said:

Are u really not able to understand that if you say that Discipleship is the REASON that God saves us, and i say that to become a SON, is why God saves us,.....that im not denying that we are to become a disciple, but im only refuting your idea that God only saves us if we promise to be a disciple.

c'mon.

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What I said you wrote, and what I quoted you as saying are the same.

IF you are not a disciple, then you are not a Christian.

A Christian means disciple.

Sidon said:

Im not a Calvinist.
Stop using your opinion as your proof text.
You can do better.

Try This, go to google that you said you need, and research : 'Pauline Theology".
Then once you understand it, (will take a while).....come back to my Threads.
Then, read them.
All will become "clear"....but not until.

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Did the "The Liturgist" state that you were a Calvinist?