How to walk in the Spirit.

Sidon · Jun 25, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
“If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us..

You have kicked this dead horse for a while now.
So, im going to give you a verse.

1 John 3:9

It says that the born again dont sin.

Your verse says you have sin.

Now, you explain that when you understand why one verse says the born again don't sin, and one verse says you have sin.

Take your time.

Sidon · Jun 25, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
Oh but I thought you “studied the Greek manuscripts” when you ALLEGEDLY attended seminary school.

"studied" in seminary training.

Thats not today.
im not in that now.
I dont use the greek, ever.
but i studied manuscript evidence and similar when i was taking seminary, yes.

Sidon · Jun 25, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
Oh and you skipped post 1669

answered.
it took me about 2 hrs to get to you.

BNR32FAN · Jun 25, 2021

Sidon said:
A castaway is not someone who has lost their salvation.
A "castaway" is someone who did not respect it, and took it for granted.

= DEMAS

Paul's context is...>"i have finished my Course"..

See that "finished"?
That is an entire Christian life that was maintained earnestly and always.

vs, the "castaway", who backslid some, never learned how to stop sinning and confessing, and stayed in the christian diaper stage till they died.
This is the believer who never grew up, never learned how to walk in the Spirit, seldom prayed, never praised, and believed that they were doing God a favor by dragging themselves out of bed once a week to try not to sleep through another dead legalist sermon.

This dead weight believer, never taught a sunday school, never sang in choir, never continually gave to the poor, ....... in other words, born again to do nothing that mattered to God.
That's your "castaway".

And you just completely pulled that interpretation out of thin air with no scriptural evidence to support it. Let’s go back to post 1669 and address the warning Paul is giving to believers in Ephesians 4 & 5.

BNR32FAN · Jun 25, 2021

Sidon said:
answered.
it took me about 2 hrs to get to you.

Nope you never addressed it.

BNR32FAN · Jun 25, 2021

Sidon said:
You have kicked this dead horse for a while now.
So, im going to give you a verse.

1 John 3:9

It says that the born again dont sin.

Your verse says you have sin.

Now, you explain that when you understand why one verse says the born again don't sin, and one verse says you have sin.

Take your time.

A person who has been born again can stray and fall away from Christ. He can also repent and turn back to Him. So when a person falls away at that time he is no longer born of God.

pescador · Jun 25, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
A person who has been born again can stray and fall away from Christ. He can also repent and turn back to Him. So when a person falls away at that time he is no longer born of God.

There is no such thing as being unborn. Try reading the parable of the Good Samaritan if you don't understand this. Regardless of the younger son's rebellious behavior he was never rejected by the father.

Sidon · Jun 25, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
A person who has been born again can stray and fall away from Christ.

Salvation is Christ in you, THE HOPE of Glory.

"Glory" is Heaven.

Proof you are going to heaven, is if Christ is in you. Water baptism only gets you WET.

So, Christ, who is ETERNAL LIFE and THE RESURRECTiON....>Lives in all who are going to Heaven.
Thats why you go, or why you wont.

BNR32FAN · Jun 25, 2021

pescador said:
There is no such thing as being unborn. Try reading the parable of the Good Samaritan if you don't understand this. Regardless of the younger son's rebellious behavior he was never rejected by the father.

That’s not the Good Samaritan that’s The Prodigal Son and the father didn’t receive him back until after the son humbled himself and repented. The father said to his older son that the younger son was dead and lost and now he has come back to life and has been found. So that doesn’t imply that the younger son was alive while he was still living in sin, he was dead and lost until he repented. Did you even read that before you quoted it?

“And He said, “A man had two sons. The younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the share of the estate that falls to me.’ So he divided his wealth between them. And not many days later, the younger son gathered everything together and went on a journey into a distant country, and there he squandered his estate with loose living. Now when he had spent everything, a severe famine occurred in that country, and he began to be impoverished. So he went and hired himself out to one of the citizens of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. And he would have gladly filled his stomach with the pods that the swine were eating, and no one was giving anything to him. But when he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired men have more than enough bread, but I am dying here with hunger! I will get up and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me as one of your hired men.” ’ So he got up and came to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion for him, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ But the father said to his slaves, ‘Quickly bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet; and bring the fattened calf, kill it, and let us eat and celebrate; for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’ And they began to celebrate. “Now his older son was in the field, and when he came and approached the house, he heard music and dancing. And he summoned one of the servants and began inquiring what these things could be. And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has received him back safe and sound.’ But he became angry and was not willing to go in; and his father came out and began pleading with him. But he answered and said to his father, ‘Look! For so many years I have been serving you and I have never neglected a command of yours; and yet you have never given me a young goat, so that I might celebrate with my friends; but when this son of yours came, who has devoured your wealth with prostitutes, you killed the fattened calf for him.’ And he said to him, ‘Son, you have always been with me, and all that is mine is yours. But we had to celebrate and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭15:11-32‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

BNR32FAN · Jun 25, 2021

Sidon said:
Salvation is Christ in you, THE HOPE of Glory.

"Glory" is Heaven.

Proof you are going to heaven, is if Christ is in you. Water baptism only gets you WET.

So, Christ, who is ETERNAL LIFE and THE RESURRECTiON....>Lives in all who are going to Heaven.
Thats why you go, or why you wont.

And yet Christ said that some will not remain in Him in John 15. He also said several times that many will fall away but only those who endure to the end will be saved.

Ligurian · Jun 25, 2021

fhansen said:
This notion, that Jesus was teaching a works-based salvation aimed strictly at the Jews at some points in His ministry, but not in others where He’s teaching a non works-based salvation, is so contrived and antithetical to the true gospel it’s hard to know where to begin to amend this confusion.

I seriously wish people would stop saying that. He came unto His own and His own received Him not = Jesus would not walk in Jewry because they were trying to kill Him... as far back as John 7. Jesus says He came "only unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel"... in Galilee, not in Judea. The divided kingdom is still in effect. Benjamin is with Judah/Jerusalem--and called Judah, the other 10 belong to the house of Israel--called Israel. (I should be carrying a sign-board.)

Not one single part of what Jesus taught is apart from works. Because even to become born from above, Jesus says you have to keep His Commandments. Both of those things are in and of the Kingdom of Heaven. If you pick up bits here and pieces there, you might be tempted to think that it's a laissez-faire sort of Kingdom... but not at all, if you study it out. If even the intentions of the heart are being judged, how much more strictly are your actions? Jesus wants our heart made clean, that's why He teaches the words of the Father which are eternal life. I can provide Kingdom scripture for all of that if you need it...

Ligurian · Jun 25, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
That’s not the Good Samaritan that’s The Prodigal Son and the father didn’t receive him back until after the son humbled himself and repented. The father said to his older son that the younger son was dead and lost and now he has come back to life and has been found. So that doesn’t imply that the younger son was alive while he was still living in sin, he was dead and lost until he repented. Did you even read that before you quoted it?

“And He said, “A man had two sons. The younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the share of the estate that falls to me.’ So he divided his wealth between them. And not many days later, the younger son gathered everything together and went on a journey into a distant country, and there he squandered his estate with loose living. Now when he had spent everything, a severe famine occurred in that country, and he began to be impoverished. So he went and hired himself out to one of the citizens of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. And he would have gladly filled his stomach with the pods that the swine were eating, and no one was giving anything to him. But when he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired men have more than enough bread, but I am dying here with hunger! I will get up and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me as one of your hired men.” ’ So he got up and came to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion for him, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ But the father said to his slaves, ‘Quickly bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet; and bring the fattened calf, kill it, and let us eat and celebrate; for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’ And they began to celebrate. “Now his older son was in the field, and when he came and approached the house, he heard music and dancing. And he summoned one of the servants and began inquiring what these things could be. And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has received him back safe and sound.’ But he became angry and was not willing to go in; and his father came out and began pleading with him. But he answered and said to his father, ‘Look! For so many years I have been serving you and I have never neglected a command of yours; and yet you have never given me a young goat, so that I might celebrate with my friends; but when this son of yours came, who has devoured your wealth with prostitutes, you killed the fattened calf for him.’ And he said to him, ‘Son, you have always been with me, and all that is mine is yours. But we had to celebrate and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭15:11-32‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

And the prodigal son is the lost sheep of the House of Israel. The other son is Judah/Benjamin, covered by the sacrificial system.

Ligurian · Jun 25, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
If what you are saying is true then there would be no need for Paul to warn believers of returning to a sinful lifestyle like he does in every single epistle he wrote.

Who hasn't read Paul's long lists of thou-shalt-nots? There may have only escaped one or two of his churches... which means the same thing whenever a bunch of laws show up... people were busy doing those things and got yelled at for it. Just like the man who had his father's wife in Corinth. The first speeding zone sign never happened until speeding was possible. No slow children signs, until the first one was mowed down, etc. This is why Jesus says the Kingdom Law from the Sermon on the Mount would stand until the Millennium, because there would be no law-breakers on Earth after that time... and therefore no need for laws. So the Kingdom Law was set up to judge the hearts in preparation for God's Kingdom on Earth, Revelation 11. Those who don't think laws apply to them are in for a rude awakening.

Ligurian · Jun 25, 2021

Sidon said:
I agree.
You are definitely under the dominion of the law.

whew... that's a relief. Thought I was going to have to tell you that til the beast shows up.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Ligurian · Jun 25, 2021

Sidon said:
Talking about these verses, is anything but flaming....
IN fact its the most needful Thread any Christian forum will ever receive.
Believe it.

2nd Corinthians 11:14,15

Revelation 1:9-11 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the Kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 1:12-14 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks [one] like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Revelation 1:15-16 And His feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and His voice as the sound of many waters.

fhansen · Jun 25, 2021

Ligurian said:
I seriously wish people would stop saying that. He came unto His own and His own received Him not = Jesus would not walk in Jewry because they were trying to kill Him... as far back as John 7. Jesus says He came "only unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel"... in Galilee, not in Judea. The divided kingdom is still in effect. Benjamin is with Judah/Jerusalem--and called Judah, the other 10 belong to the house of Israel--called Israel. (I should be carrying a sign-board.)

Not one single part of what Jesus taught is apart from works. Because even to become born from above, Jesus says you have to keep His Commandments. Both of those things are in and of the Kingdom of Heaven. If you pick up bits here and pieces there, you might be tempted to think that it's a laissez-faire sort of Kingdom... but not at all, if you study it out. If even the intentions of the heart are being judged, how much more strictly are your actions? Jesus wants our heart made clean, that's why He teaches the words of the Father which are eternal life. I can provide Kingdom scripture for all of that if you need it...

No, I'm good. All the NT teachers knew the same thing: the ten-the whole law and prophets for that matter- are fulfilled by the greatest. And the greatest are fulfilled in us by God. And we gain "admittance" to God and His love via faith.

So when Jesus says that we must be clean on the inside, that we must obey the commandments, that we must do "for the least of these", that our righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees and teachers of the law He means just that. And the same with Paul when he says we must do good, obey the law and put to death the deeds of the flesh in order to have eternal life.

Man's obligation to be righteous does not change with the New Covenant. It's simply, finally, achieved- the right way. Via the righteousness given us by the Spirit, via the love He pours out into us. And even a small amount of that, you see, easily exceeds the righteousness of the Pharisees et al.

Mr. M · Jun 25, 2021

Sidon said:
It says that the born again dont sin.
Your verse says you have sin.
Now, you explain that when you understand why one verse says the born again don't sin, and one verse says you have sin.
Take your time.

1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed abides in him;
and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
They do not sin because they cannot sin, because His seed abides in him.
John is not introducing new information here.
What can we say of someone who has been born of God, and
ceased from sinning by abiding in Him?
1 John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
1 John 2:10 He who loves his brother abides in the Light,
and there is no cause for stumbling in him. (That could go a long way toward not sinning)
1 John 2:14 I have written to you, fathers, because you have known Him from the beginning.
I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,
And you have overcome the wicked one.
The young men who did not know Christ from beginning, but placed their faith in Him, based on
the testimony received from the elders, and the word of God abides in them. By abiding in the
Word of God, or His seed, they have overcome the wicked one. (Overcoming by abiding).

1 John 2:17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but whoever does
the will of God abides forever.

Sidon said:
You have kicked this dead horse for a while now.
So, im going to give you a verse.

Seems like John has been kicking this horse for a while now. Maybe he could get to the point.
Wait for it, here comes the IF.
1 John 2:24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning.
If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son
and in the Father.
So, can someone be a true teacher who does not comprehend the need to abide?
The question is becoming "do you abide", not "are you born again".
Here comes more abiding. Take your time.
1 John 2:
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who deceive you.
27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you,
and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing
teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just
as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

What good comes from someone who claims to be a teacher of real truth and real faith,
who says that if you are born again you cannot sin. How can we easily explain an apparent
contradiction? An apparent contradiction, of course is no contradiction, but a teaching coming
from a lack of comprehension. Is there any more information available directly from this source
that helps clarify what John is teaching?
1 John 2:
28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence
and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.
29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices
righteousness is born of Him.
Okay, that's useful. The truly born again practices righteousness. This is the opposite
side of the coin for someone who has ceased from sin, they can practice righteousness.
In fact, Paul says in Romans 6, that the saints are slaves to righteousness, unto holiness.
John says "cease from sin", Paul says, "no longer a slave to sin". Witness?
Now we have painted a much clearer picture and context for this one verse: 1 John 3:9
6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin.
Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous,
just as He is righteous. [could this be the fruit of righteousness?]
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose
the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, because His seed abides in him;
and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

So is there really a conflict for John within himself? In the context of this one letter, he
fully elaborates on what it means to abide. For what reason?
1 John 1:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
The Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth. He convicts the heart of sin, judgment and righteousness.
If you abide in that Spirit, you can overcome the enemy by heeding the Voice of the Spirit.
The testimony of the Spirit to our spirit for conviction of sin and the keeping of a clean
conscience allows are mature Christian to be "kept by the power of God" from sinning.
Not by their own sufficiency, but learning to abide in the Spirit we have been given as gift,
given to all who are of faith AND are willing to abide in Him.

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
So the Holy Spirit has convicted you of sin what must you do? Confess to your brethren.
Then what happens? Not just forgiven, oh no! He cleanses us from all righteousness.
Now, in a mature relationship, you can practice righteousness. So here is the misconception.
People say that if a believer sins, it means they are not born again. This is FALSE!
A believer who sins has failed to abide in the Spirit they have been given.
If with a contrite heart they confess, they can be forgiven, and cleansed from the cause of that sin. This is what it means to "come to the light" that your deeds may be made known.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and
His word is not in us. = His seed is not abiding in them, therefore they still stumble,
but they do not fall if they continue (another way of translating meno=abide) in the
promises, for He has told you that He will be a Father to you, and you will be His child.
He will discipline you, correct you, so that you can continue on His Way that you are walking.
Now, to review:
1 John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
1 John 2:10 He who loves his brother abides in the Light,
and there is no cause for stumbling in him.
Every spiritual battle is won over the carnal nature by continuing in His Spirit.

Ligurian · Jun 25, 2021

Ligurian said:
In other words, you're believing what all the dispensational colleges believe... this I already know... been there, done that... moved on.

Because stand-alone verses aren't nearly enough, there's this, with John3:16...

John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

This is what's meant by "unless the Father draweth him"... in that verse, the man comes to Jesus because the Law was already cleaning up his act. Hence the baptism of repentence, to show that you have been under what James calls the Law of liberty... and please don't try to snag this verse, because James is all, "Faith without works is dead"... and it won't work for you at all... in context.

If I were to believe that commandments are not eternal life, I would have to start with denying this:

John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on Me, believeth not on Me, but on him that sent Me. 45 And he that seeth Me seeth Him that sent Me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on Me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear My words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

... and follow that heresy on through the rest of these:

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. 21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mark 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

John 14:21 He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him.

John 15:10 If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in My love; even as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Just a small sample... It's "all of a piece", as they say.

You seem to think that I was kidding when I told you several times, regarding Paul: ...been there, done that... moved on... because you keep trying to persuade me... or maybe you're not talking to me, just talking near me.

Also... the Way that Jesus went to prepare... it's the Resurrection of Life... so you can stop making that poor horse into glue sticks.

Sidon said:
Eternal life Hung on The Cross.

John said, that you may KNOW you have Eternal Life.

It the same thing.

Its Jesus.

Jesus said in John 14:6 that He is ""THE LIFE".
See that?
That's not commandments.

And ask yourself...>"did commandments hang on the Cross"?

If they did, then use their blood as your Salvation.
If not, you have some work to do, regarding your latest revised belief system.

Colossians 2:14 ... want peas and carrots with that?

Ligurian · Jun 25, 2021

fhansen said:
No, I'm good. All the NT teachers knew the same thing: the ten-the whole law and prophets for that matter- are fulfilled by the greatest. And the greatest are fulfilled in us by God. And we gain "admittance" to God and His love via faith.

So when Jesus says that we must be clean on the inside, that we must obey the commandments, that we must do "for the least of these", that our righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees and teachers of the law He means just that. And the same with Paul when he says we must do good, obey the law and put to death the deeds of the flesh in order to have eternal life.

Man's obligation to be righteous does not change with the New Covenant. It's simply, finally, achieved- the right way. Via the righteous given us by the Spirit, via the love He pours out into us. And even a small amount of that, you see, easily exceeds the righteousness of the Pharisees et al.

What do you do with Matthew 28:18-20?

Ligurian · Jun 25, 2021

Sidon said:
A castaway is not someone who has lost their salvation.
A "castaway" is someone who did not respect it, and took it for granted.

= DEMAS

Paul's context is...>"i have finished my Course"..

See that "finished"?
That is an entire Christian life that was maintained earnestly and always.

vs, the "castaway", who backslid some, never learned how to stop sinning and confessing, and stayed in the christian diaper stage till they died.
This is the believer who never grew up, never learned how to walk in the Spirit, seldom prayed, never praised, and believed that they were doing God a favor by dragging themselves out of bed once a week to try not to sleep through another dead legalist sermon.

This dead weight believer, never taught a sunday school, never sang in choir, never continually gave to the poor, ....... in other words, born again to do nothing that mattered to God.
That's your "castaway".

Matthew 4:4 But He answered and said, "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

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