Did Christians kill Red Indians in America?

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I disagree with you.

Ah, I just wanted to make sure. Your post #50 in reply to post #49 gave me the impression that you you might have agreed with New Testament Non-Resistance. But I can see now that this is not case. Thank you for clarifying.

You said:
We are to be willing to give up our lives for Christ.

This runs contrary to killing others in self defense for one's own life.
Jesus gave up His life and did not defend Himself to protect His own life.
He literally gave up His life.
We are told in Scripture to follow His example (See: 1 Peter 2:21, and 1 John 2:5-6).

There are people out there who hate our faith and Lord. And they will persecute and kill because of it. End of story. A spiritual battle for the soul. You have not answered any of my questions concerning this conversation.

Right, we fight a spiritual battle and not a physical one.
“The weapons we use in our fight are not the world's weapons but God's powerful weapons, which we use to destroy strongholds. We destroy false arguments;” (2 Corinthians 10:4) (GNT).

You said:
Should we have stayed under the authority of the crown in the first place?

I know that violence is not the resolution or response that the Lord would want from one of His disciples because Jesus and His followers clearly taught Non-Resistance. Nowhere will you find an instance where self defense by the use of violence by a gun or with one's fists is justified within the New Testament. Jesus told us to turn the other cheek if we are smitten. Jesus told us to love our enemies, to do good unto them, and to pray for them. You cannot be doing those things while you are also shooting them. The two concepts are contradictory. Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world, it it were, His servants would fight (See: John 18:36). Yet, you want me to believe Jesus' kingdom is of this world and that they should fight (Which is contrary to what Jesus said).

So to answer your question: Yes. If everyone was truly following our Lord's commands, they would have remained under authority to England. But God knew that this was not going to happen. The Lord knows that most do not want to follow the narrow way that is difficult and they would prefer to take the easy way of killing others so as to gain their own version of freedom and opportunities for themselves. Yes, I do realize God blessed this nation despite the founder's imperfect choice to fight (of which no nation with visible land can stand without fighting), but that does not mean God approved of their choices to go to war with England. God wants us to follow after peace with all men and holiness without which no man shall see the Lord (See: Hebrews 12:14).

You said:
Are any civil authorities to be Christians?

You mean, can a Christian be a politician?

Well, I am not a political expert. But I do know that a Christian could not obey Jesus on the matter of Non-Resistance that He taught and also be a part of the Defense Department or be the President of the U.S because they are called to make the tough choices in using violent self defense to protect our country. But again, it is not my place to speak against them if they do such things. They have a different role to play then the Christian does. God uses the army and the police as His arm of justice to punish evil. Meaning, the Lord knows that most people will not follow the narow way in following what He stated but they prefer to trust in their own power, might, and strength instead. Yes, no nation can stand without a military. But that has nothing to do with the life of a follower of Jesus Christ. That kind of person has a different role or mission to partake in (Within God's greater plan for good). For God used sinners to crucify Jesus. God used the evil that Joseph's brothers did against Joseph for a greater plan for good. So just because God is able to use those who do not His will, does not mean God approves of those choices that the make. God never said that we must have a nation. God never said that we must have a military. But we are citizens of the place in which we are born (in most cases). So we obey those laws that do not conflict with God's laws. I know. You don't agree with Non-Resistance as taught by Jesus Christ. That's okay. It does not change what our Lord taught (even if you don't agree with it).
 
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Still won't address my questions?

Patience is a virtue. I replied to your recent post first before moving on to your other earlier one.

You said:
I think they were valid. As far as a crowd at gunpoint, who is talking about that? The governing authorities enforcing law and order in a society is not sin. Neither is defending yourself or your family from violence. However if there is a crowd threatening violence and persecution because you won't deny your faith, then you keep the faith and suffer for it. But in order for that to happen LEGALLY, the ruling authorities must allow it.

Uh, yeah. That does not make any sense. Please show me in the New Testament this line of reasoning.
One is either for Non-Resistance or they are not for Non-Resistance. It sounds like you want both depending on the circumstances. But if one is for self defense then they will build an Iron Man suit and blow a hole within people with a laser beam at the first sign of a twitch of a person's finger to reach for their gun.
 
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I remember a Christian giving his testimony on another website. He said he was a part of something like SWAT. He was about to shoot and kill one of his targets that was considered a threat, and something prevented him in pulling the trigger. He later came to talk with his target that was captured and this person in whom he was going to shoot told him about Jesus Christ. Now this event led to his either immediate acceptance of the Lord as His Savior or it led to his eventual acceptance of the Lord. But the point here is that if he shot the guy, and killed him, it would have destroyed God's plan in reaching trying to reach this guy who was in SWAT or something like SWAT.
 
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ralliann

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Ah, I just wanted to make sure. Your post #50 in reply to post #49 gave me the impression that you you might have agreed with New Testament Non-Resistance. But I can see now that this is not case. Thank you for clarifying.



This runs contrary to killing others in self defense for one's own life.
Jesus gave up His life and did not defend Himself to protect His own life.
He literally gave up His life.
We are told in Scripture to follow His example (See: 1 Peter 2:21, and 1 John 2:5-6).



Right, we fight a spiritual battle and not a physical one.
“The weapons we use in our fight are not the world's weapons but God's powerful weapons, which we use to destroy strongholds. We destroy false arguments;” (2 Corinthians 10:4) (GNT).



I know that violence is not the resolution or response that the Lord would want from one of His disciples because Jesus and His followers clearly taught Non-Resistance. Nowhere will you find an instance where self defense by the use of violence by a gun or with one's fists is justified using the New Testament. Jesus told us to turn the other cheek if we are smitten. Jesus told us to love our enemies, to do good unto them, and to pray for them. You cannot be doing those things while you are also shooting them. The two concepts are contradictory. Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world, it it were, His servants would fight (See: John 18:36). Yet, you want me to believe Jesus' kingdom is of this world and that they should fight (Which is contrary to what Jesus said).

So to answer your question: Yes. If everyone was truly following our Lord's commands, they would have remained under authority to England. But God knew that this was not going to happen. The Lord knows that most do not want to follow the narrow way that is difficult and they would prefer to take the easy way of killing others so as to gain their own version of freedom and opportunities for themselves. Yes, I do realize God blessed this nation despite the founder's imperfect choice to fight (of which no nation with visible land can stand without fighting), but that does not mean God approved of their choices to go to war with England. God wants us to follow after peace with all men and holiness without which no man shall see the Lord (See: Hebrews 12:14).



You mean, can a Christian be a politician?

Well, I am not a political expert. But I do know that a Christian could not obey Jesus on the matter of Non-Resistance that He taught and also be a part of the Defense Department or be the President of the U.S because they are called to make the tough choices in using violent self defense to protect our country. But again, it is not my place to speak against them if they do such things. They have a different role to play then the Christian does. God uses the army and the police as His arm of justice to punish evil. Meaning, the Lord knows that most people will not follow the narow way in following what He stated but they prefer to trust in their own power, might, and strength instead. Yes, no nation can stand without a military. But that has nothing to do with the life of a follower of Jesus Christ. That kind of person has a different role or mission to partake in (Within God's greater plan for good). For God used sinners to crucify Jesus. God used the evil that Joseph's brothers did against Joseph for a greater plan for good. So just because God is able to use those who do not His will, does not mean God approves of those choices that the make. God never said that we must have a nation. God never said that we must have a military. But we are citizens of the place in which we are born (in most cases). So we obey those laws that do not conflict with God's laws. I know. You don't agree with Non-Resistance as taught by Jesus Christ. That's okay. It does not change what our Lord taught (even if you don't agree with it).
If someone comes to rob me , he is not doing violence because of the gospel. The robber is not there to harm because of my faith, he simply wants the goods he came to get. I don't get robbed because I am a Christian.
The problem here is, looking at the Roman empire and what Paul was being sought after for. Rome had little theocracies within itself. Which were Legalized. Rome ruled supreme. The Gods of the nations which they incorporated into the empire (when they conquered them) were allowed to be worshipped and laws reguarding their Gods were also able to be fully enforced by their clerics. Rome decided which religions were allowed approval....The pantheon, the Gods of the various peoples, were in agreement with this incorporation with the Roman Gods. Rome in this way had fidelity of its people, and peace Pax Romana. When Christ sent the Apostles to preach the Gospel in all the world, we see an example of it in his trials. Accusations of Paul being a ringleader of sedition against Roman. Paul denies that and says the only reason he stood before him is for what he preached about Christ being resurrected. Which he adds, "which they themselves allow."
This clearly shows the only reason they were accusing him was the Gospel. They wanted to kill him. In fact Paul said, if he still taught the circumcision he would have no offense to his enemies. In other words the entire reason we suffer is because we are Christians. The Governing authorities of civil government can be persuaded against us, with all kinds of accusations. It not anything we have done, it is to shut down the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not simply to steal our goods or any other motive.
As for government allowing our persecution and death?
Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
The same was true of Israel when the nation became less and less Godly for punishment
Le 26:37 And they shall fall one upon another, as it were before a sword, when none pursueth: and ye shall have no power to stand before your enemies.
 
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If someone comes to rob me , he is not doing violence because of the gospel. The robber is not there to harm because of my faith, he simply wants the goods he came to get. I don't get robbed because I am a Christian.
The problem here is, looking at the Roman empire and what Paul was being sought after for. Rome had little theocracies within itself. Which were Legalized. Rome ruled supreme. The Gods of the nations which they incorporated into the empire (when they conquered them) were allowed to be worshipped and laws reguarding their Gods were also able to be fully enforced by their clerics. Rome decided which religions were allowed approval....The pantheon, the Gods of the various peoples, were in agreement with this incorporation with the Roman Gods. Rome in this way had fidelity of its people, and peace Pax Romana. When Christ sent the Apostles to preach the Gospel in all the world, we see an example of it in his trials. Accusations of Paul being a ringleader of sedition against Roman. Paul denies that and says the only reason he stood before him is for what he preached about Christ being resurrected. Which he adds, "which they themselves allow."
This clearly shows the only reason they were accusing him was the Gospel. They wanted to kill him. In fact Paul said, if he still taught the circumcision he would have no offense to his enemies. In other words the entire reason we suffer is because we are Christians. The Governing authorities of civil government can be persuaded against us, with all kinds of accusations. It not anything we have done, it is to shut down the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not simply to steal our goods or any other motive.
As for government allowing our persecution and death?
Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
The same was true of Israel when the nation became less and less Godly for punishment
Le 26:37 And they shall fall one upon another, as it were before a sword, when none pursueth: and ye shall have no power to stand before your enemies.

What does this have to do with Non-Resistance as taught by our Lord?
 
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ralliann

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I remember a Christian giving his testimony on another website. He said he was a part of something like SWAT. He was about to shoot and kill one of his targets that was considered a threat, and something prevented him in pulling the trigger. He later came to talk with his target that was captured and this person in whom he was going to shoot told him about Jesus Christ. Now this event led to his either immediate acceptance of the Lord as His Savior or it led to his eventual acceptance of the Lord. But the point here is that if he shot the guy, and killed him, it would have destroyed God's plan in reaching trying to reach this guy who was in SWAT or something like SWAT.
So unless God stops you, you do your Job. There is no sin in protecting yourself or your family or your neighbor from violent crime.
 
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So unless God stops you, you do your Job. There is no sin in protecting yourself or your family or your neighbor from violent crime.

There is a difference between running away, holding your attacker, and or using non-violent means to stop a physical attacker vs. using lethal force against an attacker.

Anyways, if Jesus taught us Non-Resistance (of which I believe He did), then it would be a sin to disobey Him (Especially if we know the truth on such a matter).

Again, what do you make of the verses in the New Testament that teach Non-Resistance?
 
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So unless God stops you, you do your Job. There is no sin in protecting yourself or your family or your neighbor from violent crime.

How do you explain these verses?

New Testament Scripture That Supports Nonresistance:

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Matthew 26:52-53
52 Then Jesus told him, "Put your sword back in its place because all who take up a sword will perish by a sword.
53 Or do you think that I cannot call on My Father, and He will provide Me at once with more than 12 legions of angels?

Matthew 5:44-45
44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

Luke 6:27-29
27 But I say to you that listen, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.
29 If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also;

Luke 6:35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.

Matthew 5:39 But I say to you, Do not make use of force against an evil man; but to him who gives you a blow on the right side of your face let the left be turned. -Bible in Basic English

Luke 12:22 And he said to his disciples, "Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat, nor about your body, what you shall put on.

Matthew 7:12 In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.

1 Peter 3:8-9
8 Finally, all of you, have unity of spirit, sympathy, love of the brethren, a tender heart and a humble mind.
9 Do not return evil for evil or reviling for reviling; but on the contrary bless, for to this you have been called, that you may obtain a blessing.

Romans 12:17-21
17 Never repay anyone evil for evil. Take thought for what is right and gracious and proper in the sight of everyone. - AMP
18 and do your best to live at peace with everyone. - CEV
19 Christian brothers, never pay back someone for the bad he has done to you. Let the anger of God take care of the other person. - NLV for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. - KJV

1 Thessalonians 5:15 See that none of you repays evil for evil, but always seek to do good to one another and to all.

1 Peter 2:21-23
21 For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.
22 He committed no sin; no guile was found on his lips.
23 When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten; but he trusted to him who judges justly.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

2 Corinthians 10:4 We do not use those things to fight with that the world uses. We use the things God gives to fight with and they have power. Those things God gives to fight with destroy the strong-places of the devil.

Luke 3:14 Do violence to no man,

John 8:7 But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Matthew 10:28-31
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father’s will.
30 But even the hairs of your head are all numbered.
31 Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

Luke 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called sons of God.

James 3:18 The fruit of righteousness is sown in peace for them that make peace.

Romans 10:15. How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace.

Ephesians 6:14 Stand therefore . . . having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace.

Ephesians 4:1-3
1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord

Romans 16:20 The God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly.

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren ... be perfected; be comforted; be of the same mind; live in peace: and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus

Galatians 1:13 - For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it.

2 Timothy 3:12 - Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution

1 Peter 4:12-16
12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind...

Matthew 5:10 - Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

1 Corinthians 13:3 - and though I give my body to be burned, and have not love, it profits me nothing.

Philippians 1:21 - For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

Revelation 13:10 - He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Revelation 13:10 (NLT) - Anyone who is destined for prison will be taken to prison. Anyone destined to die by the sword will die by the sword. This means that God’s holy people must endure persecution patiently and remain faithful.
 
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ralliann

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What does this have to do with Non-Resistance as taught by our Lord?
Nonresistance to those who would persecute us for our faith. I don't kill someone or physically war against anyone because he is against what I believe. It is not a theocracy. You blurr the line between physical warfare, a theocracy, and other forms of government. Paul sought approval of his message for protection against his spiritual enemies. He did not appeal to them to get the emperor to kill them.
 
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Nonresistance to those who would persecute us for our faith. I don't kill someone or physically war against anyone because he is against what I believe. It is not a theocracy. You blurr the line between physical warfare, a theocracy, and other forms of government.

Nowhere did I say we are in a Theocracy. The church is made up of a body of believers all over the globe that follow Jesus and His apostles according to the words of the Bible. They don't enforce anyone to believe or to join in. They are citizens of God's Kingdom by their obedience to Jesus. This kingdom is not of this world.

You said:
Paul sought approval of his message for protection against his spiritual enemies. He did not appeal to them to get the emperor to kill them.

Nowhere am I arguing for Paul using physical violence against anyone. Non-Resistance was taught by both Jesus and the apostle Paul. So Paul would not have used violence in any way. Do you know what Non-Resistance is? It's not resisting when violent force or actions comes upon you. After Israel, no nation was ever designated to be a special nation that followed God. Only select individuals are called out to follow the Lord and they as a collective whole make up the body of Christ. Believers are not seeking to create a nation by force here upon this Earth. If that is what you think I believe: Then please get that idea out of your head.
 
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@ralliann

What makes you think that the instruction in the verses in post #68 should be ignored by a Christian with them alternatively using self defense with a gun or with their fists of fury against a would be attacker?

What verses give you the clue that this is so?

Where do we see Jesus and His followers attack back in self defense?
Where do we see a New Testament doctrine or a teaching on how to deal with those who violently come against us and our proper response is to kill them or hurt them badly?
 
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Nonresistance to those who would persecute us for our faith. I don't kill someone or physically war against anyone because he is against what I believe. It is not a theocracy. You blurr the line between physical warfare, a theocracy, and other forms of government. Paul sought approval of his message for protection against his spiritual enemies. He did not appeal to them to get the emperor to kill them.

How we would always know when a person may try to persecute us for our faith?
They could come in the middle of the night and try to hurt us for that reason and we may not know it.
So if Non-Resistance is only for the persecution of our faith, that creates a contradictory behavior in how we act and behave. Also, the Bible says that whatosever is not of faith is sin. So we always need to be in the faith. There never can be a moment where we are not living out our faith in some way. So if a believer appears to be attacked at what appears to us to be random, it is because the enemy is seeking to attack our faith. Also, all things work together for good to those who love God. So no event in our lives is working our bad or is random or outside of our faith. God works all things together for good to those who love Him.
 
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ralliann

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How do you explain these verses?

New Testament Scripture That Supports Nonresistance:

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.[/quote]
You don't bring about Gods kingdom through civil government= A theocracy Not all are going to accept the Gospel or Christ as there king.
Le 26:37 And they shall fall one upon another, as it were before a sword, when none pursueth: and ye shall have no power to stand before your enemies.

Matthew 26:52-53
52 Then Jesus told him, "Put your sword back in its place because all who take up a sword will perish by a sword.
53 Or do you think that I cannot call on My Father, and He will provide Me at once with more than 12 legions of angels?

Matthew 5:44-45
44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

Luke 6:27-29
27 But I say to you that listen, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.
29 If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also;

Luke 6:35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.

Matthew 5:39 But I say to you, Do not make use of force against an evil man; but to him who gives you a blow on the right side of your face let the left be turned. -Bible in Basic English

Luke 12:22 And he said to his disciples, "Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat, nor about your body, what you shall put on.

Matthew 7:12 In everything do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.

1 Peter 3:8-9
8 Finally, all of you, have unity of spirit, sympathy, love of the brethren, a tender heart and a humble mind.
9 Do not return evil for evil or reviling for reviling; but on the contrary bless, for to this you have been called, that you may obtain a blessing.

Romans 12:17-21
17 Never repay anyone evil for evil. Take thought for what is right and gracious and proper in the sight of everyone. - AMP
18 and do your best to live at peace with everyone. - CEV
19 Christian brothers, never pay back someone for the bad he has done to you. Let the anger of God take care of the other person. - NLV for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. - KJV

1 Thessalonians 5:15 See that none of you repays evil for evil, but always seek to do good to one another and to all.

1 Peter 2:21-23
21 For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.
22 He committed no sin; no guile was found on his lips.
23 When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten; but he trusted to him who judges justly.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

2 Corinthians 10:4 We do not use those things to fight with that the world uses. We use the things God gives to fight with and they have power. Those things God gives to fight with destroy the strong-places of the devil.

Luke 3:14 Do violence to no man,

John 8:7 But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

Matthew 10:28-31
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father’s will.
30 But even the hairs of your head are all numbered.
31 Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

Luke 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called sons of God.

James 3:18 The fruit of righteousness is sown in peace for them that make peace.

Romans 10:15. How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace.

Ephesians 6:14 Stand therefore . . . having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace.

Ephesians 4:1-3
1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord

Romans 16:20 The God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly.

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren ... be perfected; be comforted; be of the same mind; live in peace: and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus

Galatians 1:13 - For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it.

2 Timothy 3:12 - Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution

1 Peter 4:12-16
12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind...

Matthew 5:10 - Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

1 Corinthians 13:3 - and though I give my body to be burned, and have not love, it profits me nothing.

Philippians 1:21 - For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

Revelation 13:10 - He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Revelation 13:10 (NLT) - Anyone who is destined for prison will be taken to prison. Anyone destined to die by the sword will die by the sword. This means that God’s holy people must endure persecution patiently and remain faithful.[/QUOTE]
Did Israel go and Judge the nations by physical warfare alone? physical, yes but for a shadow. No they did not win by the pure strength of their weapons or men. God purposely limited their armies, so it was obvious to all something more that man's physical strength won the battle. It is not by might now power but by my spirit. God did mighty miracles among the Israelites in battle. It was not simply by the sword, or numbers and the nations knew it.
We are strangers and sojourners here.......
11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation. {whereas: or, wherein }
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. {using: Gr. having }
17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. {Honour all: or, Esteem all }
18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.
19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

Maybe it would be good to read about Joseph. This concerns ruling authorities and our appeal to their rule.
They are not a terror to good works. It is not sin to defend yourself or your family nor to serve in the Government. Joseph was second in Egypt and followed everything here.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I read that long time ago, the Red Indians were massacred by the immigrants from Europe, many of them are Christians, they justified their deed by saying that Red Indians are devil.

Many Indian tribes were very brutal and killed anyone they saw on their land that was not from their tribe. So there is an element of truth to both of those situations.
 
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BNR32FAN

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We have to ask ourselves the question: Are these actions the same kind of actions by these settlers the same as what we read about in the New Testament involving Jesus and His followers? I am going to say... no. So if Jesus and His followers never acted in this way, we can conclude that these settlers who massacred indians and or called them devils were operating on their own outside of God's Holy Word. They were not abiding in all of the teachings of Christ.

I have to disagree, many Indian tribes were known to be very aggressive and violent and had no regard for life whatsoever. There are many accounts of settlers being attacked by Indians and even women and children were slaughtered. So I think there were many situations where killing Indians was justified but I also know that there were also many cases where Indians were unjustly killed simply because of racism and fear of what they might do instead of what they have done. One thing about settlers back then was if a tribe of Indians slaughtered innocent women and children and you were an Indian then you were guilty by association even if you weren’t from the same tribe because the settlers knew very little about the differences between tribes in the early years of colonization.
 
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I have to disagree, many Indian tribes were known to be very aggressive and violent and had no regard for life whatsoever. There are many accounts of settlers being attacked by Indians and even women and children were slaughtered. So I think there were many situations where killing Indians was justified but I also know that there were also many cases where Indians were unjustly killed simply because of racism and fear of what they might do instead of what they have done. One thing about settlers back then was if a tribe of Indians slaughtered innocent women and children and you were an Indian then you were guilty by association even if you weren’t from the same tribe because the settlers knew very little about the differences between tribes in the early years of colonization.

If the Lord gives a command to not use violence against our enemies than that is something we have to accept regardless of our outside circumstances. Our faith comes first before anything else. Sometimes keeping the faith leads to our own death but praise be to God whether we live or die (as long as we are in Christ). Paul says to live is Christ and to die is gain. The Lord will judge the wicked and so nobody will get away with anything. Also, we must have faith that all things work together for good to those who love God (even if it were to mean we are to die for our faith). God is the giver and taker of life. So death is not random. So if God wanted a Christian protected from Indians who want to kill him, the Lord has more than enough power to protect him. In other words, it is a matter of faith.
 
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I have to disagree, many Indian tribes were known to be very aggressive and violent and had no regard for life whatsoever. There are many accounts of settlers being attacked by Indians and even women and children were slaughtered. So I think there were many situations where killing Indians was justified but I also know that there were also many cases where Indians were unjustly killed simply because of racism and fear of what they might do instead of what they have done. One thing about settlers back then was if a tribe of Indians slaughtered innocent women and children and you were an Indian then you were guilty by association even if you weren’t from the same tribe because the settlers knew very little about the differences between tribes in the early years of colonization.

Also, see the verses in my post #73 to learn about New Testament Non-Resistance.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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If the Lord gives a command to not use violence against our enemies than that is something we have to accept regardless of our outside circumstances. Our faith comes first before anything else. Sometimes keeping the faith leads to our own death but praise be to God whether we live or die (as long as we are in Christ). Paul says to live is Christ and to die is gain. The Lord will judge the wicked and so nobody will get away with anything. Also, we must have faith that all things work together for good to those who love God (even if it were to mean we are to die for our faith). God is the giver and taker of life. So death is not random. So if God wanted a Christian protected from Indians who want to kill him, the Lord has more than enough power to protect him. In other words, it is a matter of faith.

So imagine you're a father who was just captured by the Indians. You're eyelids were cut off and you were staked out to an anthill. Meanwhile, your six year old daughter just feet from you is being roasted alive. Should the Indians be stopped or just let continue to their way of life ?

BTW, this actually took place when Comanche's took prisoners after the Parker Fort Raid.
 
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So imagine you're a father who was just captured by the Indians. You're eyelids were cut off and you were staked out to an anthill. Meanwhile, your six year old daughter just feet from you is being roasted alive. Should the Indians be stopped or just let continue to their way of life ?

BTW, this actually took place when Comanche's took prisoners after the Parker Fort Raid.

We should do whatever we can to escape, but they will not get away with their injustice. There will be a judgment. But the point is that this place is not our home. All things work together for good to those who love God. I don’t know the hearts of those who were massacred by Indians. Only God knows such things. But rest assured that justice will be done. Things in life do not happen by random chance. God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac. Does that make sense to you? In other words, obedience does not always make sense at first but when we do obey the Lord then understanding comes.
 
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