Ceallaigh

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Exactly. Is that not what you are promoting?

For instance, I have shown you many Scriptures now, how a true Christian is a disciple of Lord Jesus, following Him. These only are saved.

In response, you say that is legalism, and that no matter how much we backslide or sin, we are still made perfect and righteous by the blood of Jesus.

So the blood of Jesus is limited?

And what does "For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus." Philippians 1:6 mean?

And what does "No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it." 1 Corinthians 10:13 mean?
 
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setst777

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So the blood of Jesus is limited?

And what does "For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus." Philippians 1:6 mean?

And what does "No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it." 1 Corinthians 10:13 mean?

The blood of Christ is for all people, and a person appropriates that blood of Christ to themselves by faith, demonstrated by walking in the Light.

1 John 1:6-9 (WEB) 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not tell the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.
 
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setst777

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Lets try something new.
In your next post to me, dont cut and paste anything.
Just ask a few questions.
Write them.

Can you do it?

I don't know what you mean by cut and past. Do you mean you don't want me to include any Scripture quotations? That is an unusual request on a Christian message board where we discuss the Scriptures.

Can you answer my question?

What do these two Scriptures mean to you?

1 John 1:6-9 (WEB) 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not tell the truth. 7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 2:4-6 (WEB)
4 One who says, “I know him,” and doesn’t keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn’t in him.
5 But God’s love has most certainly been perfected in whoever keeps his word.
This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.
 
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Ceallaigh

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The blood of Christ is for all people, and a person appropriates that blood of Christ to themselves by faith, demonstrated by walking in the Light.

1 John 1:6-9 (WEB) 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not tell the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

By who's power do we walk in the light?

So what do you think "For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus." Philippians 1:6 means?

And what do you think "No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it." 1 Corinthians 10:13 means?
 
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setst777

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So the blood of Jesus is limited?

And what does "For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus." Philippians 1:6 mean?

Philippians 1:6-7 (WEB)
6 being confident of this very thing, that he who began a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ. 7 It is even right for me to think this way on behalf of all of you

Paul's confidence is not a guarantee. God will complete His good work in the Philippians if they live a life worthy of the Gospel, standing firm.

Philippians 1:27 (WEB)
27 Only let your way of life be worthy of the Good News of Christ, that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your state, that you stand firm in one spirit, with one soul striving for the faith of the Good News

Paul offers no guarantee that their faith will continue, or that they will be worthy.
 
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setst777

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And what do you think "No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it." 1 Corinthians 10:13 means?

1 Corinthians 10:13
13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

I ask these questions of those who quote such Scriptures:
  • Have you ever been tempted to sin?
  • Did you sin?
  • Did God provide you a way out?
  • Did God's providing you a way out guarantee that you would never fall into temptation?
No one disagrees with these Passages. God does provide a way out, but that does not guarantee that we will take that way out or endure it. That is why the word “may” is used in “that you may be able to endure it.” God provided the way out, but that does not guaranteed that you will take the way out or endure.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Philippians 1:6-7 (WEB)
6 being confident of this very thing, that he who began a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ. 7 It is even right for me to think this way on behalf of all of you

Paul's confidence is not a guarantee. God will complete His good work in the Philippians if they live a life worthy of the Gospel, standing firm.

Philippians 1:27 (WEB)
27 Only let your way of life be worthy of the Good News of Christ, that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your state, that you stand firm in one spirit, with one soul striving for the faith of the Good News

Paul offers no guarantee that their faith will continue, or that they will be worthy.

So God doesn't play much of a part in this, and we are mostly or entirely saved by virtue of our own worthiness? It seems like when I put God in, you want to take Him out.
 
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setst777

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By who's power do we walk in the light?

By faith we access the power of God onto salvation.

Romans 1:16-17 (WEB) 16 For I am not ashamed of the Good News of Christ, because it is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first, and also for the Greek. 17 For in it is revealed God’s righteousness from faith to faith. As it is written, “But the righteous shall live by faith.” [Habakkuk 2:4]

By faith we are kept by the power of God.

1 Peter 1:4-9 (KJV)
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fades not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
 
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Ceallaigh

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By faith we access the power of God onto salvation.

Romans 1:16-17 (WEB) 16 For I am not ashamed of the Good News of Christ, because it is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first, and also for the Greek. 17 For in it is revealed God’s righteousness from faith to faith. As it is written, “But the righteous shall live by faith.” [Habakkuk 2:4]

By faith we are kept by the power of God.

1 Peter 1:4-9 (KJV)
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fades not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

And the Holy Spirit doesn't empower our faith?
 
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setst777

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And the Holy Spirit doesn't empower our faith?

The Holy Spirit helps, guides, and directs the believer who will live and walk by the Spirit.

Galatians 6:7-9 (WEB) 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 Let us not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season, if we do not give up.

Romans 8:12-14 (NIV) Writing to the Church in Rome
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation — but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
 
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Ceallaigh

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1 Corinthians 10:13
13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

I ask these questions of those who quote such Scriptures:
  • Have you ever been tempted to sin?
  • Did you sin?
  • Did God provide you a way out?
  • Did God's providing you a way out guarantee that you would never fall into temptation?
No one disagrees with these Passages. God does provide a way out, but that does not guarantee that we will take that way out or endure it. That is why the word “may” is used in “that you may be able to endure it.” God provided the way out, but that does not guaranteed that you will take the way out or endure.

No, it does not say you may. It says you will. so that you will be able δύνασθαι (dunasthai) 1410: to be able, to have power.
 
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setst777

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So God doesn't play much of a part in this, and we are mostly or entirely saved by virtue of our own worthiness? It seems like when I put God in, you want to take Him out.

God counts as worthy those who live by faith in Him demonstrated by living a life of holiness before Him.

Matthew 10:38 (WEB) 38 He who doesn’t take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me

Revelation 3:4-5 (WEB)
1 “I know your works, that you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead.
2 Wake up and keep the things that remain, which you were about to throw away, for I have found no works of yours perfected before my God.
3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it and repent.
If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you.
4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that didn’t defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.
5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Luke 21:34-36 (WEB)
34 “So be careful, or your hearts will be loaded down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day will come on you suddenly. 35 For it will come like a snare on all those who dwell on the surface of all the earth. 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

2 Thessalonians 1:5 (WEB)
5 This is an obvious sign of the righteous judgment of God, to the end that you may be counted worthy of God’s Kingdom, for which you also suffer
 
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Sidon

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1 John 1:6-9 (WEB) 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not tell the truth. 7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 2:4-6 (WEB)
4 One who says, “I know him,” and doesn’t keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn’t in him.
5 But God’s love has most certainly been perfected in whoever keeps his word.
This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.


1 John 1:6-9 (WEB) 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not tell the truth. 7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.


2 groups., one preacher.

one group is trying to keep the law, and pretend they have fellowship with God, based on works, when that is a LIE, as you can only have fellowship with God by faith, and by Spirit.

2nd group, is the born again.....and walking in the Light, is to have a renewed mind, that always sees yourself as God sees you......a "new creation". "made Righteous".
Or as John says......the blood of Jesus keeps us always righteous. (cleanses us from ALL ALL ALL Sin".
Thats why confessing what is ALWAYS Cleansed, is useless.
Spend that time studying Paul, instead.



1 John 2:4-6 (WEB)
4 One who says, “I know him,” and doesn’t keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn’t in him.
5 But God’s love has most certainly been perfected in whoever keeps his word.
This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.


Well, what commandments?
And who is the "Him"?

Lets look at the one
commandment that causes you to go to heaven.

Its the work of God, you are to do.

"The work of God is that you BELIEVE on Jesus, whom God sent".

Thats a command, not a suggestion.

So, that is the commandment that puts JESUS in you.
So, the person in your verse has no Jesus in them, because they have not performed that work of God, and that means they are not born again.

Notice that John says that if you are in Christ, that you are to walk as Christ walked.
He says..>"ought to".
You should.
But that does not mean you always will....
You should Take up your Cross.
You should present your body a living sacrifice.
You should give to the poor.
You should forsake not the assembling of yourselves together.
You ought to take communion.
You ought to put on the whole armor of God
You ought to love your neighbor as yourself
You ought to "follow Paul as Paul followed Christ

are you doing it yet?

Good.
Just dont do any of that to try to go to heaven, and thats a 100% fail.
 
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Ceallaigh

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The Holy Spirit helps, guides, and directs the believer who will live and walk by the Spirit.

Galatians 6:7-9 (WEB) 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 Let us not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season, if we do not give up.

Romans 8:12-14 (NIV) Writing to the Church in Rome
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation — but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it.13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

Doesn't the Holy Spirit enable and empower us to walk in the Spirit?
 
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setst777

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No, it does not say you may. It says you will. so that you will be able δύνασθαι (dunasthai) 1410: to be able, to have power.

The literal Greek of that Passage is as follows:

1 Corinthians 10:13 Young's Literal Translation
13 No temptation hath taken you -- except human; and God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above what ye are able, but He will make, with the temptation, also the outlet, for your being able to bear [it].

God provides you a way out for your being able to bear the temptation. However, if God GUARANTEED that you would endure, then you would. But you don't, because every Christian, at some points during his life, will fall into temptation.
 
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Ceallaigh

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God counts as worthy those who live by faith in Him demonstrated by living a life of holiness before Him.

Matthew 10:38 (WEB) 38 He who doesn’t take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me

Revelation 3:4-5 (WEB)
1 “I know your works, that you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead.
2 Wake up and keep the things that remain, which you were about to throw away, for I have found no works of yours perfected before my God.
3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it and repent.
If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you.
4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that didn’t defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.
5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Luke 21:34-36 (WEB)
34 “So be careful, or your hearts will be loaded down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day will come on you suddenly. 35 For it will come like a snare on all those who dwell on the surface of all the earth. 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

2 Thessalonians 1:5 (WEB)
5 This is an obvious sign of the righteous judgment of God, to the end that you may be counted worthy of God’s Kingdom, for which you also suffer

But isn't it God though the Holy Spirt who empowers our faith that enables us to live a worthy life of holiness?
 
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Sidon

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No, it does not say you may. It says you will. so that you will be able δύνασθαι (dunasthai) 1410: to be able, to have power.

How can a person not have power, if CHRIST is in them?

There is a way around it....
Most find it.

All you have to do is live here : "apart from me you can do nothing".

This means the believer is trying by self effort to achieve only what Christ can empower us to do.

The Power of Salvation, is the CROSS.
The power to live holy, is Christ in you.

When a person is trying to save themselves then they are up on the Cross.
When a person is trying by willpower and personal effort to live holy, they are disconnected from : "Christ always GIVES me the Victory".
 
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setst777

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1 John 1:6-9 (WEB) 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not tell the truth. 7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

2 groups., one preacher.

one group is trying to keep the law, and pretend they have fellowship with God, based on works, when that is a LIE, as you can only have fellowship with God by faith, and by Spirit.

2nd group, is the born again.....and walking in the Light, is to have a renewed mind, that always sees yourself as God sees you......a "new creation". "made Righteous".
Or as John says......the blood of Jesus keeps us always righteous. (cleanses us from ALL ALL ALL Sin".
Thats why confessing what is ALWAYS Cleansed, is useless.
Spend that time studying Paul, instead.

The Scripture clearly states as follows:

But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

"IF" is a conditional word. Would you agree? John is writing to the Christians, saying that IF WE walk in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 2:4-6
(WEB)
4 One who says, “I know him,” and doesn’t keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn’t in him.
5 But God’s love has most certainly been perfected in whoever keeps his word.
This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.

Well, what commandments?
And who is the "Him"?

Lets look at the one commandment that causes you to go to heaven.

Its the work of God, you are to do.

"The work of God is that you BELIEVE on Jesus, whom God sent".

Thats a command, not a suggestion.

So, that is the commandment that puts JESUS in you.
So, the person in your verse has no Jesus in them, because they have not performed that work of God, and that means they are not born again.

Notice that John says that if you are in Christ, that you are to walk as Christ walked.
He says..>"ought to".
You should.
But that does not mean you always will....
You should Take up your Cross.
You should present your body a living sacrifice.
You should give to the poor.
You should forsake not the assembling of yourselves together.
You ought to take communion.
You ought to put on the whole armor of God
You ought to love your neighbor as yourself
You ought to "follow Paul as Paul followed Christ

Are you saying that walking as Lord Jesus walked is optional to be saved?

IF so, what about those who believe in Jesus but do not demonstrate their faith by listening to and following Jesus? Are they still saved?

John 10:27-28
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
 
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