Sanctification : How to be sanctified.

Brightfame52 · Jun 23, 2021

TedT said:
If this is the be all and the end all then Heb 12:5-11 about our being trained in righteousness is balderdash, just so much babble.

What is it you dont believe about Heb 10:10 ?

Sidon · Jun 23, 2021

Brightfame52 said:
Those who Christ died for are sanctified by His death Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Amen.

By ONE Offering, (the blood of Jesus) God eternally redeems all who are born again.

Brightfame52 · Jun 23, 2021

Sidon said:
Amen.

By ONE Offering, (the blood of Jesus) God eternally redeems all who are born again.

If a person who Christ died for is sanctified by His death, then like Jereiah they are sanctified before they are born Jer 1:5

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

So they will be born again as a result.

Sidon · Jun 23, 2021

TedT said:
BUT...in Heb 12:6, English Standard Version
For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.”

At times.
But not all the time., just when necessary to deal with a flesh stronghold that you can't resolve.

Sidon · Jun 23, 2021

Brightfame52 said:
If a person who Christ died for is sanctified by His death, then like Jereiah they are sanctified before they are born Jer 1:5

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

So they will be born again as a result.

Its like this...
= you known in God's mind, as His foreknowledge that you will be born, which later literally happens when you are born from your mother's womb, as God's foreknowledge come to pass.

In Genesis, we read that the seed of the woman was coming to crush the head of the Devil, but it took 4000 yrs for that to happen., tho it was known in God's foreknowledge, before the world was even formed by Jesus as the pre-incarnate WORD, , as explained in John 1:10

TedT · Jun 23, 2021

Brightfame52 said:
What is it you dont believe about Heb 10:10 ?

I don't believe it contradicts Heb 12:5-11 for one...

TedT · Jun 23, 2021

Sidon said:
At times.
But not all the time, just when necessary to deal with a flesh stronghold that you can't resolve.

Only if it is necessary to overcome the resistance to repentance, ie, "The discipline of God, [which] is in exact proportion to the need of the believer."

Sidon · Jun 23, 2021

TedT said:
Only if it is necessary to overcome the resistance to repentance, ie, "The discipline of God, [which] is in exact proportion to the need of the believer."

Repenting, after you are saved, makes you feel less guilt about your carnal deed that you are ashamed of that caused you to repent to try to feel better.

The whole time you are doing that, if you are born again, is wasting your time, as God was always still in fellowship and still in Peace with you, based on what He did for you on the Cross, 2000 yrs ago.

Dont waste your time anymore, trying to keep what the Blood of God will never lose.
Learn what that is true.

Also learn how to exist here.....>Hebrews 13:9

And study this till it becomes "obviously true", and not confusing.

Romans 3:21-28

Butterball1 · Jun 24, 2021

Sidon said:
The reality is, that "sin came into the world because of Adam" and forgiveness and righteousness came into the world as the 2nd Adam.

We are born with a nature that is of the devil.
This is why it is termed the "fallen" nature, as this is symbolic of the Devil as this..>"i beheld Satan FALL as Lightning from Heaven".

Jesus says of ALL unbelievers.....>"You are of your FATHER...the devil".

Paul says ......regarding ALL the born again, "you are no longer a servant, but a SON of God".

Again, the Bible does not teach man is born with a sin nature for such an idea makes man a victim of sin, excusing man for his sin and would have God unjustly condeming man for an inability man was innately born with.
John 8:44-45 in context Jesus is speaking to those Jews who would not believe Him.

Brightfame52 · Jun 24, 2021

Sanctification is of God !

1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This is a truth worthy of much reflection, how that Christ is our Sanctification before God as a Gift.

The NIV translates the word holiness

It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

Its the same word used in Heb 12:14

14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

This is a Gift of Sanctification/Holiness apart from the efforts, obedience's, acts of men, or even before they exist physically.

God told Jeremiah Jer 1:5

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Brightfame52 · Jun 24, 2021

Sidon said:
Its like this...
= you known in God's mind, as His foreknowledge that you will be born, which later literally happens when you are born from your mother's womb, as God's foreknowledge come to pass.

In Genesis, we read that the seed of the woman was coming to crush the head of the Devil, but it took 4000 yrs for that to happen., tho it was known in God's foreknowledge, before the world was even formed by Jesus as the pre-incarnate WORD, , as explained in John 1:10

You dont seem to understand. Them Christ died for are sanctified by His death before they are born like Jeremiah. Then later they will be born again.

Brightfame52 · Jun 24, 2021

TedT said:
I don't believe it contradicts Heb 12:5-11 for one...

It doesnt contradict Heb 12:5-11, but its not Heb 12:5-11, it teaches something different, my question to you is not what Heb 12:5-11 teaches, but what does Heb 10:10 teach. According to Heb 10:10 how were they sanctified ?

Danthemailman · Jun 24, 2021

Sidon said:
The reality is, that "sin came into the world because of Adam" and forgiveness and righteousness came into the world as the 2nd Adam. We are born with a nature that is of the devil. This is why it is termed the "fallen" nature...

Psalm 51:5 - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. This verse makes a strong case for being born with a fallen, sinful nature. Here is another verse - The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak lies go astray from birth. (Psalm 58:3)

Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned.

1 Corinthians 15:22 - For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Ephesians 2:5 - even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).

fhansen · Jun 24, 2021

Sidon said:
How do you become "Sanctified".

Its like this.... 1 Corinthians 1:30

= Jesus is our entire Sanctification.
Do you have Him in you?
Are you born again and not just water baptized??

So, when we are "In Christ", we are as sanctified as God Himself.
And why?
Because our born again Spirit is our real identity.
Its the REAL YOU. And this is the 'new Creation".
Notice that its not the old creation, or the "flesh" that is trying to be good and keep commandments.
But rather, is God who has BIRTHED your dead spirit ALIVE into Himself, by His Holy Spirit.
This SPIRITUALLY recreates you as 'ONE WITH GOD" "In Christ".
It is GOD Himself joining Himself to your Spirit, and this creates NEW LIFE, and the NEW BIRTH, and you as the "new Creation".
= Born again.

And as born again, you become :

= "as Jesus is.... so are the born again IN this World".

--------------------------------------------

Our Discipleship, is not our sanctification, its only our discipleship.
A lot of Christians confuse Salvation with Discipleship, and get all caught up in works and commandment keeping and PERFORMING to try to be accepted by God.
When you do that, you are not in correct Faith, as correct Faith understands that God Himself came down here to deal with your sin and your dead Spirit.
You can't do that with law and commandments, and that is why Jesus, who is God, told YOU...

"you must be born again".

Listen..

Salvation is the blood atonement that is God caused, by Christ's Blood and God's Spirit.
Discipleship is you living your life for God because God has made you a "new Creation in Christ".
See that?
See the difference between what God did for you, and what you do BECAUSE He did?

Salvation is God offering His HOLINESS to YOU, as "the Gift of Righteousness".
Discipleship is you presenting your body and behavior back to God as your discipleship, after you are born again > SANCTIFIED by the Blood of Jesus.

Reader, everything that God offers to accepts you, and bring you to heaven after you die, HE DID FOR YOU< as Christ on the Cross.
That is : "The Gift of Salvation".

You Discipleship, or your presenting your life back to God because He has SAVED YOU with Christ's BLOOD.... has no effect on being "made Righteous', which is our entire sanctification, as "born again".
We are "made righteous" by GOD through CHRIST, so, we can't become more righteous. But, we can exist in perfection as a disciple, as a lifestyloe, which is to have the mind of Christ = which is to walk in the Spirit.
To do this, you have to "renew" you mind.

To become "perfected", and exist as "the fullness of the Stature of Christ" is not found by deeds, or law, or commandments, or self sacrifice, .... its only found by having a perfectly renewed Mind that always and only reflects God's perspective of who we are as a born again NEW CREATION, made so by God Himself.
When you learn to SEE yourself as only the "new creation" "in Christ", and not as a saved sinner needing to be good, and keep commandments.....But when you get out of that carnal mind, and into the MIND that SEES YOU, as God has recreated you to be, then you are walking in the Spirit. This is the renewed mind.

Notice that the NT teaches you that can only please God by "faith", and that faith isn't deeds and works or commandment keeping.....but rather its found in perfected understanding = renewed MIND..
The REAL walk of Faith, is to exist as walking IN the Spirit.
This is not self effort, as Jesus told you.>"apart from me you can do nothing.".
So, when you are trying to DO something so that God will keep you, and accept you, then you are apart from The Grace of God that is the only reason He accepts you.
God does not accept you based on what you do. God only and always accepts you based on Jesus's death, burial, and resurrection.
See that CROSS ??? = God accepts THAT, only, to accept you.
That's "the GIFT of Salvation".

So, when you exist in this Real Faith, the you are finally existing in the renewed mind, which is to walk in the Spirit.
That's how you live the sanctified FAITH FILLED life that is pleasing to God.

Great, you've succeeded in separating righteousness from, well...righteousness. Jesus came to so can look right when we're really not. Sounds something like the Pharisees ironically.
"Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean." Matt 23

Anyway, justification and sanctification are real gifts of righteousness from God that amount to more than forgiveness of sin or not having past sin counted against us. They are part and parcel of walking in the Spirit, living the life of grace. And we aren't forced to remain in that justice, that justified state, to remain in Him, we can turn and walk back away from it at any point. You've been heavily influenced by certain understandings of the reformed doctrine of Sola Fide.

TedT · Jun 24, 2021

Butterball1 said:
Again, the Bible does not teach man is born with a sin nature for such an idea makes man a victim of sin, excusing man for his sin and would have God unjustly condeming man for an inability man was innately born with.
John 8:44-45 in context Jesus is speaking to those Jews who would not believe Him.

This is a cornerstone of the PCE lesson of our fall.
No sin can accrue except to a free will decision to rebel against GOD's command (forgivable sin) or to reject GOD HIMself (unforgivable sin).

Since death is the wages for sin (not just a condition of life), death proves sinfulness. Since people die in the womb or as new infants all the time, it proves their sinfulness. The reconciliation of their intellectual inability with their sinfulness is the basis for orthodoxy attributing their sinfulness to inheriting Adam's sinfulness which is countered by the PCE attestation of sinfulness to the free will choices of all who lived and sinned before their conception into this world, Mtt 13:38-39. The decision to accept our conceptions as new creations has forced Christian theology into a narrow path that conflicts with who we think GOD is.

A Church mystery is a contradiction between what GOD is thought to be and what HE is thought to have done when the contradiction is so bad it would be a blasphemy if it was not called a mystery.

How the GOD who is love could chose to create anyone let alone HIS Bride as under the condemnation of death for sinfulness in an evil place of suffering is just such a mystery. Why this depiction of GOD as unloving is not a blasphemy has been the cause of thousands of pages of theo-babble written to make it seem right.

All are sinners as a statement of orthodoxy is expressed as only sinners are conceived on earth in PCE parlience. We agree on this, just not on how this sinfulness was achieved.

TedT · Jun 24, 2021

Brightfame52 said:
You dont seem to understand. Them Christ died for are sanctified by His death before they are born like Jeremiah. Then later they will be born again.

Sanctified and to be holy have the same meaning:
holy:

dedicated or consecrated to God or a religious purpose; sacred.
"the Holy Bible"

to sanctify:

set apart as or declare to be holy;

Did you ever notice there are two uses of the words sanctified and holy in our language?

One refers to object which have no intellect or ability to choose like, knives, censors, candle and their objects which have been set aside for GOD's use and purpose, never used for mundane purposes.

Then there is the command to be holy:
Lev 11:44 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: and this command to sanctify ourselves can only be obeyed in perfection by a free will agreement with GOD to be in total, perfect, accord with HIM.

Yes, GOD can set people aside to HIS purposes at any time before they have chosen to be holy by their free will on earth... but such a decision must be made for a thinking wilful person to become holy in themselves, a slight but important difference, eh?

Butterball1 · Jun 24, 2021

TedT said:
Since death is the wages for sin (not just a condition of life), death proves sinfulness. Since people die in the womb or as new infants all the time, it proves their sinfulness.

All people, including infants, die as a consequence of Adam sinning not because they inherited Adam's. People die as a consequence of a drunk driver's sin not because they inherit the drunk driver's sin.

For anyone to be a sinner requires a law to exist (Romans 4:15) and that law must be transgressed (1 john 3:4) by an acountable person (Romans 7:8-9) making the idea of original sin impossible. Since infants have done no evil (Romans 9:11) they are born innocent, neutral, without sin.

TedT · Jun 24, 2021

Brightfame52 said:
It doesnt contradict Heb 12:5-11, but its not Heb 12:5-11, it teaches something different, my question to you is not what Heb 12:5-11 teaches, but what does Heb 10:10 teach. According to Heb 10:10 how were they sanctified ?

His death is a three part process:
1. He chose to be the Lamb to be slain for the sins of others.
2. He announced His gospel of salvation to be found in His death for us as the only way to be redeemed from any sin which every creature under heaven has already heard as we are told in Col 1:23, and
3. His actual death fulfilling His gospel promise to us who put our faith in Him as our saviour.

His actual death is the nail upon which our salvation from the legal and natural consequences of sin AND our sanctification do hang, ie, without it, nothing else can happen.

Therefore His death started the sanctification process and indeed fulfilled His promise of our sanctification even though the process is often bumpy and every legitimate but sinful child of GOD must go thru the process of being trained in righteousness.

Being sanctified is the end result of His death; the methodology is by our being trained in righteousness.

Sidon · Jun 24, 2021

Butterball1 said:
Again, the Bible does not teach man is born with a sin nature .

By one man , Adam........the human species became the "adamic nature".

By the 2nd Adam, Jesus, """"""all who call on the name of Jesus, believing, shall be saved."""""
And that is to become Born Again, with the same nature that Adam had before he transgressed and became "fallen".

This is God's original nature, or "righteousness".
The born again are "made righteous", just like Adam was before he transgressed and lost His Righteousness.

Sidon · Jun 24, 2021

Brightfame52 said:
You dont seem to understand. Them Christ died for are sanctified by His death before they are born like Jeremiah. Then later they will be born again.

I honestly can't even understand what you just said.
Is this the book of mormon or JW theology? As its not Catholic or Protestant.

Sanctification : How to be sanctified.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member since Job 38:7

Member since Job 38:7

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Oldbie

Member since Job 38:7

Member since Job 38:7

Well-Known Member

Member since Job 38:7

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads