Would you prefer it if “Christian universalism” were true?

Cormack said:

It’s not a topic about whether or not universalism is scriptural, it’s about whether or not you would prefer the whole of creation to someday be reconciled to God and to live in right standing with Him.

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So what's your purpose in asking the question? Seems like a subtle way of trying to make people's emotions turn against God .... get them to somehow reason that God is not fair? Why else would you ask it? You already stated even though the scriptures says it's not so.....but do you wish it was in your way of thinking.

I think a wise person would state all God's ways are just and I want only his ways to be exalted and established.

Yes, I would like universalism to be true. I would prefer to be in a club that would have everyone as a member, even Groucho Marx. As we're talking about what we would really like, I would hope that all animals are there too. And trees! And perhaps that will be the case. When heaven comes down to earth and the new heaven and earth is created, perhaps animals and plants will be there too.

Cormack said:

I’ve not written whether Christian universalism is scriptural or not scriptural in this topic, because that’s not the purpose of the topic.

The topic is a simple hypothetical thought experiment about whether or not Christians would prefer the universal reconciling of all things back to God the Father.

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I'm aware of that. But you're still asking people regardless of what scriptures' say tell us what you'd rather see even if it goes against scripture which would be the will God.

Cormack said:

If we entertain the idea that Christian universalism were true (simply for the sake of choosing between two options,) it entails everything that comes with that concept being right, e.g. you read the scripture wrong, God wants everyone to be saved, people won’t be in hell forever.

We aren’t saying you are truly wrong, and we aren’t saying this is what the Bible truly says.

Checking out post #42 could help your understanding here.

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The question you pose is a good way to lay to one side for a moment our particular interpretation of the Bible on the matter or what our denomination teaches and ask ourselves what we really feel about it. This may agree with what we think the Bible says or it may not but it's an interesting and revealing question to ask ourselves.

Cormack said:

Presuming Christian universalism were the case, it would be Gods good plan which no plan could be better than. The question isn’t would you like godless Christian universalism, because there’s no such thing.

So writing that you prefer a non universalist view because it’s the best view there is, that’s not really entertaining the topic question.

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That is not what I am saying. I am saying: God put the very best Loving situation He could create, which is not universalism in any form. If I Love like God Loves, I would have to agree with His plan as being the very best.

You cannot say: “God could choose another plan that was universalism”, since God can only choose to do the very best.

I want the very best plan, so I do not want universalism.

parousia70 said:

God's implemented plan is that Society is being redeemed by the Atonement of Christ's blood and the power of the Holy Spirit via the Church. Christ's Church is carrying out God's plan for bringing the reconciliation of the Cross to all nations and we cannot fail (Matthew 16:18-19):

2 Corinthians 5:18-20
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, RECONCILING THE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as God did beseech you by us

So we can see that at this time God is reconciling all the world unto himself, per His Plan to do so.

God's plan is for us to love and focus on the world Jesus loves (John 3:16-17) and rules over (Revelation 1:5; Matthew 28:18)--the world he gave to his followers (Romans 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 3:22).

Jesus loves the world and reconciled it unto Him. That's the Plan.
We are to love the Plan Jesus loves.

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Are you saying people do not have the free will to refuse to accept God’s plan and not be a part of His plan?

Bobber said:

I'm aware of that. But you're still asking people regardless of what scriptures' say tell us what you'd rather see even if it goes against scripture which would be the will God.

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In other words what's the point? I think the reason for the question is to introduce doubt in God's word to newbies that may be swayed but fortunately there are those who know the truth of the word and can thwart those who would deceive. Cudo's to those who stand on God's word

returntosender said:

I think the reason for the question is to introduce doubt in God's word to newbies that may be swayed

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Why would he do that?

Cormack said:

That’s not a correction of my point though, you’re just explaining by “best” you mean most loving. Still however you want to define the “best plan,” for the purposes of a hypothetical in which universalism were true, you’d have to entertain that the best plan wasn’t your theology, rather it would be universalism.

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Did you read my post 17 at all?

Briefly:

1. It takes: an earth like place, sin, hell, tragedies, satan, death and beings with real free will choices, to obtain Godly type Love.

2. These free will beings have to be able to repeatedly refuse to accept Godly type Love to the point of never being willing to accept Godly type Love, to really make the choice of accepting.

3. If the being desires a selfish (carnal) type love and do not desire Godly type Love, they would not be happy in heaven, where there is only Godly type Love and after leaving an earth like place there is no way to obtain Godly type Love in heaven (it is a choice with likely alternatives).

4. God would not want robots in heaven “loving” Him, since that is not real Godly type Love, they will continue to have free will.

5. Those who go to hell made the decision they do not like heaven, but they do provide help to some individuals still able to make the choice of accepting God’s Love.

I do not want unhappy people in heaven.

Cormack said:

Sinister duck Shakespeare. Well known plagiarist and enemy of the one true church.

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It took me a while to come up with a serious question for the charge and you mock it.

Cormack said:

Hypothetically they wouldn’t be unhappy people, if we are open enough to use the presuppositions of a universalist.

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Is heaven like the Muslim heaven with 72 virgins?
There are not multiple types of heavens, it is where God is, so do people become robots so they are robot "happy" if there is such a thing?
Some people would have to cease to be the person they are to be happy in heaven, so the person they represent is not in heaven.