TWO NSL phases not just one - we should obey the first one.

BobRyan

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Often when you hear "NSL" you think of it as something to "not obey" but we need to remember that we are to obey the initial phase and avoid fanaticism.

For NSL Phase 1 -- which is a "sign to leave the large cities" we have this --


the work there must be done as wisely and carefully as possible, and it must be done in the manner in which Christ would work. The people will soon find out what you believe about Sunday and the Sabbath for they will ask questions. Then you can tell them, but not in such a manner as to attract attention to your work. You need not cut short your work by yourself laboring on Sunday. . . . {LDE 138.4}


Refraining from work on Sunday is not receiving the mark of the beast. . . . In places where the opposition is so strong as to arouse persecution, if work is done on Sunday, let our brethren make that day an occasion to do genuine missionary work.--SW 69, 70 (1895). {LDE 139.1}

If they should come here and say "You must close up your work and your presses on Sunday," I would not say to you, . . . "Keep your presses going," because the conflict does not come between you and your God.--Ms 163, 1898. {LDE 139.2}

We should not feel it enjoined upon us to irritate our neighbors who idolize Sunday by making determined efforts to bring labor on that day before them purposely to exhibit an independence. Our sisters need not select Sunday as the day to exhibit their washing.--3SM 399 (1889). {LDE 139.3}

Engage in Spiritual Activities on Sunday

I will try to answer your question as to what you should do in the case of Sunday laws being enforced. {LDE 139.4}

The light given me by the Lord at a time when we were expecting just such a crisis as you seem to be approaching, was that when people were moved by a power from beneath to enforce Sunday observance, Seventh-day Adventists were to show their wisdom by refraining from their ordinary work on that day, devoting it to missionary effort. {LDE 139.5}

To defy the Sunday laws will but strengthen in their persecution the religious zealots who are seeking to enforce them. Give them no occasion to call you lawbreakers. . . . One does not receive the mark of the beast because he shows that he realizes the wisdom of keeping the peace by refraining from work that gives offense. . . . {LDE 140.1}

Sunday can be used for carrying forward various lines of work that will accomplish much for the Lord. On this day open-air meetings and cottage meetings can be held. House-to-house work can be done. Those who write can devote this day to writing their articles. Whenever it is possible, let religious services be held on Sunday. Make these meetings intensely interesting. Sing genuine revival hymns, and speak with power and assurance of the Saviour's love.--9T 232, 233 (1909). {LDE 140.2}

Take the students out to hold meetings in different places, and to do medical missionary work. They will find the people at home and will have a splendid opportunity to present the truth. This way of spending Sunday is always acceptable to the Lord.--9T 238 (1909). {LDE 140.3}
 

reddogs

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Often when you hear "NSL" you think of it as something to "not obey" but we need to remember that we are to obey the initial phase and avoid fanaticism.

For NSL Phase 1 -- which is a "sign to leave the large cities" we have this --


the work there must be done as wisely and carefully as possible, and it must be done in the manner in which Christ would work. The people will soon find out what you believe about Sunday and the Sabbath for they will ask questions. Then you can tell them, but not in such a manner as to attract attention to your work. You need not cut short your work by yourself laboring on Sunday. . . . {LDE 138.4}


Refraining from work on Sunday is not receiving the mark of the beast. . . . In places where the opposition is so strong as to arouse persecution, if work is done on Sunday, let our brethren make that day an occasion to do genuine missionary work.--SW 69, 70 (1895). {LDE 139.1}

If they should come here and say "You must close up your work and your presses on Sunday," I would not say to you, . . . "Keep your presses going," because the conflict does not come between you and your God.--Ms 163, 1898. {LDE 139.2}

We should not feel it enjoined upon us to irritate our neighbors who idolize Sunday by making determined efforts to bring labor on that day before them purposely to exhibit an independence. Our sisters need not select Sunday as the day to exhibit their washing.--3SM 399 (1889). {LDE 139.3}

Engage in Spiritual Activities on Sunday

I will try to answer your question as to what you should do in the case of Sunday laws being enforced. {LDE 139.4}

The light given me by the Lord at a time when we were expecting just such a crisis as you seem to be approaching, was that when people were moved by a power from beneath to enforce Sunday observance, Seventh-day Adventists were to show their wisdom by refraining from their ordinary work on that day, devoting it to missionary effort. {LDE 139.5}

To defy the Sunday laws will but strengthen in their persecution the religious zealots who are seeking to enforce them. Give them no occasion to call you lawbreakers. . . . One does not receive the mark of the beast because he shows that he realizes the wisdom of keeping the peace by refraining from work that gives offense. . . . {LDE 140.1}

Sunday can be used for carrying forward various lines of work that will accomplish much for the Lord. On this day open-air meetings and cottage meetings can be held. House-to-house work can be done. Those who write can devote this day to writing their articles. Whenever it is possible, let religious services be held on Sunday. Make these meetings intensely interesting. Sing genuine revival hymns, and speak with power and assurance of the Saviour's love.--9T 232, 233 (1909). {LDE 140.2}

Take the students out to hold meetings in different places, and to do medical missionary work. They will find the people at home and will have a splendid opportunity to present the truth. This way of spending Sunday is always acceptable to the Lord.--9T 238 (1909). {LDE 140.3}
You have to remember, their was a first surge of Sunday Laws that was brought on America in Ellen Whites time..

"In earlier centuries, when Sunday Laws were enacted and enforced, shops had to close and people had to be careful around their house, lest spies report on them. As late as the 1890s in America, some of the most reliable people in our communities were threatened with arrest. A number were jailed for doing things a little differently. Mr. Judefind, of Rock Hall, Maryland, was arrested on November 20, 1892, for husking corn in his field. The sheriff, who patiently hid in the bushes near the road till Judefind began working, later admitted in court that he himself regularly did the same kind of work on Sunday. Judefind was imprisoned for 30 days; and the sheriff, safe from prosecution, 7 set out to find more violators. Since it was almost impossible to not violate those Sunday laws, Sunday laws were also used to persecute whoever the local authorities wished to select for arrest. In 1889, Day Conklin, of Bigcreek, Georgia, was arrested and found guilty of chopping wood on Sunday. The family had just finished moving to a different house and a cloudburst had soaked much of their possessions. Then the weather turned bitter cold, and Conklin chopped wood that morning to provide some heat for his suffering family. The fine and court costs amounted to $83. Yet, as soon as the trial was over, some of those testifying and voting against him went home and, immune to arrest by friends, chopped wood for themselves the following Sunday morning. In Tennessee, in the early 1890s, men were fined and put into chain gangs for Sunday violations. W.B. Capps, of Dresden, served ninety-seven days for doing ordinary farm work on his property." http://www.bible-sabbath.com/Sabbath-Sunday/SundayLaw-Enforced.pdf

And A.T. Jones had to go before the Supreme Court to argue against it..
The National Sunday Law [SL18]
 
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BobRyan

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You have to remember, their was a first surge of Sunday Laws that was brought on America in Ellen Whites time..

Which has died away in many states ... but when it returns the first phase will be in that same way - where blue laws that already exist will no longer be "blue" they will be activated. So then no mowing the lawns on Sunday (etc) will be just how it starts. The extreme form comes later.

And that stop-work-one-sunday is how they plan it currently in Europe. Sunday Law Proposed in European Nation | Sabbath Truth

Note the rationale used in the 20th century to uphold the ones that still remain.

"In earlier centuries, when Sunday Laws were enacted and enforced, shops had to close and people had to be careful around their house, lest spies report on them. As late as the 1890s in America, some of the most reliable people in our communities were threatened with arrest. A number were jailed for doing things a little differently. Mr. Judefind, of Rock Hall, Maryland, was arrested on November 20, 1892, for husking corn in his field. The sheriff, who patiently hid in the bushes near the road till Judefind began working, later admitted in court that he himself regularly did the same kind of work on Sunday. Judefind was imprisoned for 30 days; and the sheriff, safe from prosecution, 7 set out to find more violators. Since it was almost impossible to not violate those Sunday laws, Sunday laws were also used to persecute whoever the local authorities wished to select for arrest. In 1889, Day Conklin, of Bigcreek, Georgia, was arrested and found guilty of chopping wood on Sunday. The family had just finished moving to a different house and a cloudburst had soaked much of their possessions. Then the weather turned bitter cold, and Conklin chopped wood that morning to provide some heat for his suffering family. The fine and court costs amounted to $83. Yet, as soon as the trial was over, some of those testifying and voting against him went home and, immune to arrest by friends, chopped wood for themselves the following Sunday morning. In Tennessee, in the early 1890s, men were fined and put into chain gangs for Sunday violations. W.B. Capps, of Dresden, served ninety-seven days for doing ordinary farm work on his property." http://www.bible-sabbath.com/Sabbath-Sunday/SundayLaw-Enforced.pdf

And A.T. Jones had to go before the Supreme Court to argue against it..
The National Sunday Law [SL18]

Thanks for that list - it is a keeper. But it still does not get past the OP recommendations because everything in your list for the 1800's involves working on Sunday as the only infraction. So the OP recommendation that we do not work on Sunday when the law is put in place to stop work on Sunday, would have addressed it.

A list of states that still have active sunday laws and why they are upheld
in McGowan v. Maryland, 366 U.S. 420 (1961), the United States Supreme Court upheld a Maryland law that banned the sale of most merchandise (other than milk, bread, fruit, gas and other petroleum products, medicines, newspapers and, notably, tobacco). While acknowledging that the original laws were “motivated by religious forces,” the Court concluded that “in light of the evolution of our Sunday Closing Laws . . . and of their more or less recent emphasis on secular considerations [including a day of rest for labor], it is not difficult to discern . . . that presently they bear no relationship to establishment of religion . . . .”

Since then, many blue laws have been upheld in state court challenges, including in

New Hampshire (1967),
North Dakota (1970),
South Carolina (1970),
Vermont (1970),
Iowa (1971)
Arkansas (1973),
Maryland (1974),
Mississippi (1975),
Maine (1976),
Texas (1976),
Massachusetts (1977),
Virginia (1977)
and New Jersey (1978).

And there is a list of other states where the blue laws were struck down eventually.
 
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Gary K

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So what then are we doing to fulfill the rest of Ellen White's advice in this area?

What are we doing to defend liberty? What are we doing to oppose the current encroachment upon the Constitution which is our civil guarantee of our liberty to worship according to our consciences? What are we doing to oppose the new government programs of encouraging the snitching on friends, neighbors, and family members who are "radicalized" by such extremist ideas as living according to Biblical principles? What are we doing to oppose transgenderism? What are we doing to oppose transhumanism? Are we just supposed to sit quietly by as our nation descends into much deeper spiritual darkness than now exists within it?

Ellen White tells us to sit by and do nothing about these kinds of ills is to completely abandon our responsibilities to our fellow man and to God. What about all of this? Are we supposed to remain quiet so we will not be "canceled"?

Ezekiel 3:17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
 
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BobRyan

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So what then are we doing to fulfill the rest of Ellen White's advice in this area?

What are we doing to defend liberty? What are we doing to oppose the current encroachment upon the Constitution which is our civil guarantee of our liberty to worship according to our consciences? What are we doing to oppose the new government programs of encouraging the snitching on friends, neighbors, and family members who are "radicalized" by such extremist ideas as living according to Biblical principles?

Well there is always "voting".

But the purpose of this thread was to point out that we should not go out of our way to get crosswise with the upcoming NSL in its first form. In fact we are supposed to have Sunday Schools and outdoor meetings on Sunday.
 
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Gary K

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Well there is always "voting".

But the purpose of this thread was to point out that we should not go out of our way to get crosswise with the upcoming NSL in its first form. In fact we are supposed to have Sunday Schools and outdoor meetings on Sunday.
I have no problem with what you said as I have read the same statements myself years ago.

But what do we do until then? Are we not supposed to obstruct evil all we can? Are we not supposed to to be the "repairers of the breach"? The "restorers of paths to dwell in"? Is that not our duty before God?

I bring these things up not to pound on you, but because I find them to fill my heart and wonder just what all I can do to fulfill my duty to God in these matters. Millions are being swept away by the subtlety of the deceptions being broadcast wholesale. Do we not have a deep obligation to them? Do we not care that they are headed to destruction? If we don't care enough to speak out can we truly say the love of Christ dwells within our hearts?

What do I hear from church leadership? More about social justice than justice itself.
 
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BobRyan

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I have no problem with what you said as I have read the same statements myself years ago.

But what do we do until then? Are we not supposed to obstruct evil all we can? Are we not supposed to to be the "repairers of the breach"? The "restorers of paths to dwell in"? Is that not our duty before God?

If we preach the truth about what God wants us to do regarding the keeping of all TEN of the Ten Commandments we are on the right path. Even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" sectn 19 does that (as does the "Westminster Confession of Faith" sectn 19) - only "they" argue that the Sabbath commandment got "edited" at the cross to point to week-day-1 and we do not.

I think we get to have that particular discussion all day long. And we have the right to vote against political amendments / laws that would supress religious freedom to keep the seventh day Sabbath of the Bible.

What I am talking about in that prior post is "civil disobedience" and I am saying we should not do it as long as the Laws are not preventing full compliance with the seventh day Sabbath of the Bible.

What do I hear from church leadership? More about social justice than justice itself.

Ok but that is some of our leadership shooting themselves in the foot.
 
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