Celtic Christianity

Davy

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Well, that's arguable, first is quite a claim to make. What would you consider the "nation" of Britons anyways? The island and peoples were a fractured grouping of people, tribes, allegiances, and nationalities aside from the Romans. The Celtic peoples of the islands were far from any unified political nation at that time.

There are other peoples with a similar claim. Ethiopia, Armenia, Kartli, Abyssinia, etc. all have strong claims. The key that makes it so debatable is "nations first to accept Jesus on a national scale". It's fairly easy to say the first to make it the "official state religion", but the claim of "national scale" is really nebulous and hard to pin down as the definition of "nation" is used in different ways.

We shouldn't confuse other countries like Ethiopia that claimed a connection as Jews. Even some in ancient Greece claimed lineage with the Jews in Jerusalem. The Roman Church can claim ascendancy over the British Church all they want, but the simple fact is that early historians recorded the existence of early Celtic Christians while Rome was still pagan, and there was no established Church above ground yet.
 
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tampasteve

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We shouldn't confuse other countries like Ethiopia that claimed a connection as Jews. Even some in ancient Greece claimed lineage with the Jews in Jerusalem.
Agreed, but the claim of Ethiopia is not entirely based on the link to Judaism. But I would propose that we may as well leave the claim of "first" aside, it is not really the topic of this thread. Indeed, books have been written on the various claims, I don't think we are going to come to any new revelations here.
The Roman Church can claim ascendancy over the British Church all they want, but the simple fact is that early historians recorded the existence of early Celtic Christians while Rome was still pagan, and there was no established Church above ground yet.
I don't think I claimed that Rome was over the British Church, all I claimed was that there was an exchange of people and ideas - and the British Church was largely in line with the rest of Christendom. I claimed that some of the early Bishops were appointed from outside the islands, but that alone does not necessarily constitute "ascendancy over" the church.

My main claim is that the Celtic Church was not completely autonomous, with a spirituality and practices that were so different than other remote or disparate Churches of the era. That is in contrast to the claim that some people make that the Celtic Church was autonomous and essentially a different branch, which really does not seem to be the case.

While the Roman church may have been more or less underground at different times, that does not mean there was no contact with the various other Christian areas, including the Britons. We know letters flowed back and forth, people traveled, ideas and discussions took place.

The fact is that the church at that time was not uniform, it took various forms and had various practices all over the places it was present. Celtic Christianity was really no different in this manner than the various observances developing at the same time in Gaul, Parthia, Ethiopia, Thrace, India, etc.
 
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The Liturgist

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Going back to the OP.....

I am fairly familiar with Celtic Christianity, I am an Associate Member of the Iona Community. In general it is fair to characterize "Celtic" Christianity are being perhaps more contemplative and perhaps more "internal" than most European Christianity. However, it is probably too far to think that it was a entirely unique expression of the faith. We see similar characteristics in Coptic Christianity, among others.

Some people like to go further and say that it had it's own hierarchy, it was free from Rome. There just is not a lot of historical evidence that it was any more "free" than most of the other local churches at the time. Certain area's of the British Islands were more remote, and thereby more "free", but it was more of a circumstance of local than theology. In fact, Bishops in the islands were not un-often sent from outside of the islands.

I myself would love to visit Iona, which was one of the great monasteries of the world. However, I find myself frustrated by what seems to be an excessive focus on tourism, and also reports of an influence of wacky pan-religious monastic enthusiast types in the mold of Thomas Merton. Specifically, the Eastern Orthodox priest Fr. Andrew Damick reported when he visited Iona, je was aggrieved to see a statue of the Buddha on display. Do you know if its still there, or has been tossed into the sea where it belongs?*

*Or more likely, removed; as much as I personally would want to toss it into the sea, I can’t expect everyone to be that umm fanatical. :p
 
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The Liturgist

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Agreed, but the claim of Ethiopia is not entirely based on the link to Judaism. But I would propose that we may as well leave the claim of "first" aside, it is not really the topic of this thread. Indeed, books have been written on the various claims, I don't think we are going to come to any new revelations here.

I don't think I claimed that Rome was over the British Church, all I claimed was that there was an exchange of people and ideas - and the British Church was largely in line with the rest of Christendom. I claimed that some of the early Bishops were appointed from outside the islands, but that alone does not necessarily constitute "ascendancy over" the church.

My main claim is that the Celtic Church was not completely autonomous, with a spirituality and practices that were so different than other remote or disparate Churches of the era. That is in contrast to the claim that some people make that the Celtic Church was autonomous and essentially a different branch, which really does not seem to be the case.

While the Roman church may have been more or less underground at different times, that does not mean there was no contact with the various other Christian areas, including the Britons. We know letters flowed back and forth, people traveled, ideas and discussions took place.

The fact is that the church at that time was not uniform, it took various forms and had various practices all over the places it was present. Celtic Christianity was really no different in this manner than the various observances developing at the same time in Gaul, Parthia, Ethiopia, Thrace, India, etc.

There is evidence this was the case possibly as late as the Norman Conquest.
 
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tampasteve

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I myself would love to visit Iona, which was one of the great monasteries of the world. However, I find myself frustrated by what seems to be an excessive focus on tourism, and also reports of an influence of wacky pan-religious monastic enthusiast types in the mold of Thomas Merton. Specifically, the Eastern Orthodox priest Fr. Andrew Damick reported when he visited Iona, je was aggrieved to see a statue of the Buddha on display. Do you know if its still there, or has been tossed into the sea where it belongs?*

*Or more likely, removed; as much as I personally would want to toss it into the sea, I can’t expect everyone to be that umm fanatical. :p
I am really not sure, to be honest. I have not personally seen pictures, nor references to it recently. That said, these ecumenical organizations often attract more fringe elements, so I would not be surprised.

Iona is a goal to visit someday.
 
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