How to walk in the Spirit.

Sidon said:

Is it possible to go to seminary and not study manuscript evidence?
Thats a no.

What i said is not to try to correct the word of God, with the greek that you can't read.

Is this difficult for you to understand?
Seems so.

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Hmm said:

That's encouraging. I used to ’lead’ an Alpha course group. It's probably not known in the US but it's a course popular in the UK that is designed to introduce people to Christianity. The group leaders are not supposed to answer any questions (which was good for me because otherwise I couldn't have done it!) but to throw them back to the group for discussion which is why I put the word in quotes above. The reason I mention it is that it was interesting to hear the reservations people had about Christianity. The main one I heard was Why is there suffering? but the second one was What sort of God would send people to hell just because they're not Christians? So I'd welcome a more enlightened broad agreement on the subject because I think many more people would at least be prepared to explore Christianity.

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MMXX said:

My cousin who was a very devoted Christian, renounced Christianity over it. That's what lead me to explore the issue. Thankfully he came back after someone finally convinced him it wasn't a necessity of belief as a Christian.

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Hmm said:

Your image of Python's Spanish Inquisition made me think of this. A co-leader of one of these Alpha groups was saying - as she shouldn't have done given the rules - that anyone who wasn't a Christian including unbaptised babies - went to hell. And if anyone thought this was unfair they should remember that we're in a spiritual war and there are always casualties in war. This didn't go down well as you can imagine - I remember one woman there had recently lost her 'non-Christian’ granddad and she was about to walk out - and so I said that this was merely her opinion and that she didn't speak for all Christians and that in fact she should have kept her opinion to herself. I gave Rowan Williams view - which I shouldn't have done either but I wanted to counteract her – that I mentioned above about God eternally knocking and someone eternally rejecting and she complained about me afterwards to the minister. I had a visit from him when I least expected it (of course) and he said he wanted to talk to me about dogma. He said I shouldn't have said what I did because it was wrong and I said I was quoting the ex-head of the church he’s a member of and if I can't quote him who can I quote? Rowan Williams used to be the Archbishop of Canterbury and so the head of the Anglican church and this was a Church of England church.

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MMXX said:

I decided to post this short presentation of the Orthodox view of Salvation here too:

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MMXX said:

This is a really good lecture on 1 John. Steve Gregg is one of those whom I heard pretty much everything you've said about salvation from. This is part 1 of 4.

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MMXX said:

This is perhaps my favorite passage about salvation through faith.

Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

36 When one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, he went to the Pharisee’s house and reclined at the table.
37 A woman in that town who lived a sinful life learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee’s house, so she came there with an alabaster jar of perfume. 38 As she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.

39 When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is—that she is a sinner.”

40 Jesus answered him, “Simon, I have something to tell you.”

“Tell me, teacher,” he said.

41 “Two people owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. 42 Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he forgave the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?”

43 Simon replied, “I suppose the one who had the bigger debt forgiven.”

“You have judged correctly,” Jesus said.

44 Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45 You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. 46 You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.”

48 Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”

49 The other guests began to say among themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”

50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” Luke 7:36-50

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MMXX said:

I'm talking about those who understand what remaining in Christ really means, from the perspective you give.

In situations like these, I'm always going to be talking about the kind of Christian you believe a Christian should be.

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Sidon said:

The born again are not sinners.
The born again are "new Creations", "in Christ".
Their sin , is what Jesus became, on the Cross.

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fhansen said:

Ok, the pretend non-sinner thing.

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MMXX said:

You yourself should fear but by the same token that fear should be expelled. Sounds a bit contradictory.

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pescador said:

Perhaps to you, but that's not what the Word of God says. What does being "born again" mean to you? Either you're a new creation in Christ (who has no sin) or you're not. You can't be both.

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fhansen said:

It's kind of a package deal. Separation from God is something we should avoid at all costs-but we're born in that separated, fallen condition. And one of the first reactions to knowing God is awe, and, yes, fear of His power, of life over death. But as we come to truly know Him through His Son, we find, over time, that He's gentle and kind and loves man lavishly, and has always wanted the best for him, and He knows that the best for us begins with Him. And that's where faith comes in, that's how we get with Him.

But we're like prodigals or wild things, in rebellion, filled with pride, not necessarily sure we want to come completely in from the wild, needing to be convinced, which is a primary purpose of the Cross to begin with, which stands ever-beckoning us to come -and come even closer to that light, to that love. Anyway, the nearer we draw to God the nearer He draws to us and the more we know Him the more our faith, hope, and love grow. And fear is cast out, overcome, by that love- 1 John 4:18. And that love simultaneously overcomes sin, because, again, the two are mutually exclusive. I'll repeat Basil one more time, which shows a progression.

If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.

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fhansen said:

I'd review 1 John for one. If we're a sinner, we're a sinner. There should be no waffling about that. And Scripture tells us that sin, grave sin, sin that leads to death, constitutes a turning away from God-and will exclude us from Him.

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Sidon said:

I use a Bible.

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BNR32FAN said:

I kindly disagree, our remaining in Christ comes from within and the outward effect is the fruit of that which is love.

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Hmm said:

Jesus did tell us not to judge others and that if we set ourselves up as a teacher, more will be expected of us. Just saying.

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pescador said:

The first section of 1 John is written to non-believers. Either you're a sinner, outside of Christ, or you're in Christ, who has no sin. You can't be both.

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