How to walk in the Spirit.

BNR32FAN said:

No but you didn’t answer my question. You said the Jews mentioned in Hebrews 10 were unsaved. So these “brethren who have the confidence to enter the Holy Place by the blood of Jesus” were not saved?

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That looks like another assurance of salvation verse.

Ligurian said:

The division doesn't stop there: Galatians 2:7-9

Matthew 13:13 Context. 10 And the Disciples came, and said unto Him, "Why speakest thou unto them in parables?" 11 He answered and said unto them, "Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given."

In other words, the Disciples who follow the Kingdom Gospel preached by Jesus are given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Why don't you believe your own Apostle to the Gentiles, Sidon?

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And you can't even be shown that you can't even know what you're talking about.
Instead, you're trying to apply Pauline terminology to what Jesus said.
And finally pretending to tell me what I've been saying to you the whole month.
And denying it, all at the same time.
And that "foolish" phrase is just begging to send you to hellfire under Kingdom Law.
I understand why a scofflaw like you wouldn't want to be under Kingdom Law.
But why you think you can have Kingdom perks without the pains is beyond me.
"No pain, no gain" is more often true than not, in my experience.

Sidon said:

The Cross isn't divided.
There are not 2 Gospels, anymore then there are 2 Christ's on 2 Crosses.
So, when you read that Peter was dealing with Jews, this does not mean the message was not the same Gospel, as Paul's.

Also, you are not rightly dividing Matthew 13:13, that isn't written by Paul.
So, dont ask me why i dont "believe my own apostle", then quote another, as this makes you seem foolish.

Listen also, when Matthew 13:13 was written, Jesus has not DIED YET, Ligurian.
There was no NEW COVENANT yet....
So, you have Jesus, under the old covenant, dealing with the House of Israel .
This is not Paul's Gospel.
This is Jesus dealing with Jews, as under the law, before He was Crucified.
So, the Gospel of Grace, was not yet given as John 3:16, because Christ was not yet dead then resurrected.
This is why he could share foreknowledge about what was coming, with His 12, but not preach it as the Gospel of the Grace of God.
Try to SEE that Jesus can't preach the CROSS (Paul's Gospel)... to the JEW, when He's not been on it YET.

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And now you're telling me you've never read Jesus saying, "But I say unto you..."
Pretending Jesus was under the Old Covenant... disregarding Thy Kingdom Come...
Yammering on about Jesus preaching to His own that tried to kill Him 42 months straight.
Forgetting entirely the verses that speak of the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel.
Never reading Matthew 28:18-20, which stops your WWGG dead in its tracks.
Can't blame you for not knowing any of this, since it's not given to you to know.

Seems to me that you've finally admitted there are two gospels, you just don't want to admit it. Because the Good News of the Kingdom is the New Covenant, like it or not. Stop and think about it. If you know that the Kingdom is for all nations, and know that's what Jesus taught AND to whom He taught the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven... then you know that the mission fields are for (1) the lost tribes of Israel, and (2) the heathen nations (GG is not WW). And do yourself a favor: learn that Judeans are NOT the whole Hebrew nation.

BNR32FAN said:

I guess, if you like someone changing the words that were actually written.

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Ligurian said:

Even Greek doesn't appear to be Greek, since the Pelasgians held that land long before "the coming of the Greeks" and the Pelasgians held what is falsely called Greek Mythology. The Persian overlords always learned the language of the lands the conquested and took indigenous wives... when they didn't bring their wives on these raids. Robert Drews sums up the scholarship regarding The Coming of the Greeks in a book, if you want to learn the history of the Aegean. A better source is Ridgeway's The Early Age of Greece in two volumes.

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Just to be clear, what I wrote was meant to be satire.

Sidon said:

Hebrews 13:9

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Doesn't seem like Barnabus was under the Kingdom Law either. Should be interesting how this plays out.

Esaias 66:17 They that sanctify themselves and purify themselves in the gardens, and eat swine’s flesh in the porches, and the abominations, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.

Sidon said:

there is so much more to it then that, bnr32fan.

so much more to it.

You are now trying to explain calculus only because you can count to 3.
that's how much you dont know about this topic.
that is why you should listen to someone who does, who is me.

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BTW, it's "than that", not "so much more to it then that". If you're going to call someone out for what you perceive as their lack of math skills, you're going to need verbal skills with which to do so.

And a little humility wouldn't hurt, either.

Ambacum 2:4 If he should draw back, my soul has no pleasure in him: but the just shall live by my faith.5 But the arrogant man and the scorner, the boastful man, shall not finish anything; who has enlarged his desire as the grave, and like death he is never satisfied, and he will gather to himself all the nations, and will receive to himself all the peoples.LXX

Psalms 119:78 Let the proud be ashamed; for they transgressed against me unjustly: but I will meditate in Thy commandments.LXX

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
James 3:13 Who [is] a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

Moral of the story: yeah, I'm keeping the Kingdom Gospel. Your freedom seems to allow you to be... something to which I don't aspire. I'm always willing to learn from other people's mistakes.

Ligurian said:

BTW, it's "than that", not "so much more to it then that". If you're going to call someone out for what you perceive as their lack of math skills, you're going to need verbal skills with which to do so.

And a little humility wouldn't hurt, either.

Ambacum 2:4 If he should draw back, my soul has no pleasure in him: but the just shall live by my faith.5 But the arrogant man and the scorner, the boastful man, shall not finish anything; who has enlarged his desire as the grave, and like death he is never satisfied, and he will gather to himself all the nations, and will receive to himself all the peoples.LXX

Psalms 119:78 Let the proud be ashamed; for they transgressed against me unjustly: but I will meditate in Thy commandments.LXX

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
James 3:13 Who [is] a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

Moral of the story: yeah, I'm keeping the Kingdom Gospel. Your freedom seems to allow you to be... something to which I don't aspire. I'm always willing to learn from other people's mistakes.

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It seems to me that perhaps real commitment might be seen in those who follow the law even though they believe they don't have to - as opposed to those who follow the law because they're afraid God will comdemn them to hell if they don't.

fhansen said:

But, again, there's nothing new here, or anything that I'm not already enlightened to. We both agree that only God can justify us. And even though you believe that this righteousness is imputed, you also agree that a born again person begins to behave righteously, meaning that we participate in some manner or another in a change of behavior even if you don't believe that we must do so in order to be saved. And my main point is that, yes, we can behave righteously now with the new birth, and that we must do so, as living by the Spirit is optional, with eternal life at stake. Again, nothing we have, nothing, including our existence, is our own-it all comes from God. And that's the same as with any righteousness He may give us-and continues to seek to draw us further into-for our highest and best good. That begins-from our perspective- with faith.

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So he believes that this righteousness is imputed, as opposed what? How should this sentence be completed; "righteousness is not imputed, it is _________".

Sidon said:

You again just taught your legalism.
You stated that eternal life is kept or LOST, not by the Blood of God, as the Blood Atonement, but as you living righteously or NOT, and if NOT< then hell awaits.

That is SELF SAVING theology.
LEGALSIM

So, what you did again was give YOURSELF CREDIT for going to hell or not, and that denies the Cross, and rejects the Grace of God.

So, when do you think you will stop teaching this, is what i asked you 3x.

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What I picked up on is this seems to foster doubt. So the question is, does God want us to be in doubt?

MMXX said:

So he believes that this righteousness is imputed, as opposed what? How should this sentence be completed; "righteousness is not imputed, it is _________".

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”infused” perhaps, because righteousness is not just a declarative statement from God saying that we’re now ”righteous” but nothing has actually changed. It means that He has made us anew with Holy Spirit now dwelling in us and working at transforming us, with our cooperation, into becoming ever more Christ-like. So we are righteous, we're not just recategorised as righteous. That's how I understand it anyway.

MMXX said:

So he believes that this righteousness is imputed, as opposed what? How should this sentence be completed; "righteousness is not imputed, it is _________".

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Given. For the zillioneth time. Infused, imparted.

MMXX said:

What I picked up on is this seems to foster doubt. So the question is, does God want us to be in doubt?

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I think because our salvation depends to some extent on us, on our initial acceptance of the gift and on our continuing cooperation with God, some element of doubt seems inevitable. We can trust God completely but not ourselves. We often don't really know what we want and consequently do the wrong thing.

Does anyone really know, deep down, that they will be saved on the last day? It is God's judgement after all, not ours. I can't remember the quote but the Bible says somewhere that everyone will come away from the last judgement feeling that they have been fairly treated so I think that's quite reassuring.

Hmm said:

”infused” perhaps, because righteousness is not just a declarative statement from God saying that we’re now ”righteous” but nothing has actually changed. It means that He has made us anew with Holy Spirit now dwelling in us and working at transforming us, with our cooperation, into becoming ever more Christ-like. So we are righteous, we're not just recategorised as righteous. That's how I understand it anyway.

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I've never known of a Christian who didn't have a before and after testimony.

Hmm said:

I think because our salvation depends to some extent on us, on our initial acceptance of the gift and on our continuing cooperation with God, some element of doubt seems inevitable. We can trust God completely but not ourselves. We often don't really know what we want and consequently do the wrong thing.

Does anyone really know, deep down, that they will be saved on the last day? It is God's judgement after all, not ours. I can't remember the quote but the Bible says somewhere that everyone will come away from the last judgement feeling that they have been fairly treated so I think that's quite reassuring.

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Seems to me to inspire terror, rather than reassurance. The thief on the cross felt he and the other were getting what they deserved, but that didn't mean he wasn't suffering horribly.

MMXX said:

Seems to me to inspire terror, rather than reassurance. The thief on the cross felt he and the other were getting what they deserved, but that didn't mean he wasn't suffering horribly.

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And people who are abused or raped often feel they deserve it but that's because of psychological damage. That won't be the case when we are judged by God - we have been told that we will consider that we have been fairly dealt with.

Hmm said:

And people who are abused or raped often feel they deserve it but that's because of psychological damage. That won't be the case when we are judged by God - we have been told that we will consider that we have been fairly dealt with.

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How does that make the possibility of an eternity of torment because you didn't do a good enough of a job keeping your salvation, reassuring?

MMXX said:

How does that make the possibility of an eternity of torment because you didn't do a good enough of a job keeping your salvation, reassuring?

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I don't believe in an eternity of torment so I can't answer your question.

Hmm said:

I don't believe in an eternity of torment so I can't answer your question.

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Neither do I. But then again that's something else I find hard to be 100% sure of.

MMXX said:

Neither do I. But then again that's something else I find hard to be 100% sure of.

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Of course I'm not sure 100% either but it's irrelevant to me because if it turned out that is was true and there was a fiery hell with lots of little demons with pitchforks in attendance then I would reject such a God who created that anyway. But I am as sure as I am about anything that it isn't like that because God loves us more than we can ever know.

Hmm said:

Of course I'm not sure 100% either but it's irrelevant to me because if it turned out that is was true and there was a fiery hell with lots of little demons with pitchforks in attendance then I would reject such a God who created that anyway. But I am as sure as I am about anything that it isn't like that because God loves us more than we can ever know.

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You sound like a couple of Catholics I know.