Biden Doesn’t Expect Not to be Admitted to Holy Communion

If only the bishops had the sack to squeeze high profile people like him. Either he'll repent or he'll come out as closet Episcopalian he and Pelosi are all acting like.

Fenwick said:

If only the bishops had the sack to squeeze high profile people like him. Either he'll repent or he'll come out as closet Episcopalian he and Pelosi are all acting like.

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He acts like an Episcopalian. The Episcopalians would be happy to have him. He would fit right in with them. But I suspect he won’t go. He’s already in cushy with cardinal Wilton Gregory and in his home diocese so why not stay? He knows he’s in a cushy spot. At least while he’s still alive.

chevyontheriver said:

He acts like an Episcopalian. The Episcopalians would be happy to have him. He would fit right in with them. But I suspect he won’t go. He’s already in cushy with cardinal Wilton Gregory and in his home diocese so why not stay? He knows he’s in a cushy spot. At least while he’s still alive.

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Shoot the Episcopalians can have Biden, Pelosi, Lieu, James Martin, Gregory, Cupich...the whole lot of them. They're basically double-agents for the Episcopal church at this point anyway.

Fenwick said:

Shoot the Episcopalians can have Biden, Pelosi, Lieu, James Martin, Gregory, Cupich...the whole lot of them. They're basically double-agents for the Episcopal church at this point anyway.

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We should arrange a trade.

Fenwick said:

Shoot the Episcopalians can have Biden, Pelosi, Lieu, James Martin, Gregory, Cupich...the whole lot of them. They're basically double-agents for the Episcopal church at this point anyway.

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How about we give them all of those folks, a few congregations like Joan of Arc in Minnesota, some brutalist architecture churches all over the country, some no longer faithful universities like Georgetown, and the gay priests. Give them the Jesuits even. Most of the good ones are already dead.

We would take any Anglican/Episcopalian congregation or even diocese that wants to escape. With their endowments and properties and retirement funds. If they are not ready to become Catholic we would let them be independent, so at least they could escape intact without leaving their church building and priests retirements behind. Many older Episcopalian church buildings are things of beauty.

It might look like the Catholics side would be getting the worst end of the deal, but not having the de facto Episcopalians any longer claiming to be de jure Catholics would be invaluable in and of itself.

I’m not so naive as to think this could happen.

chevyontheriver said:

He acts like an Episcopalian. The Episcopalians would be happy to have him. He would fit right in with them. But I suspect he won’t go. He’s already in cushy with cardinal Wilton Gregory and in his home diocese so why not stay? He knows he’s in a cushy spot. At least while he’s still alive.

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How does he "act like an Episcopalian?" Specifically?

Padres1969 said:

How does he "act like an Episcopalian?" Specifically?

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His position on abortion accords with the Episcopalians and not with the Catholics. His position on homosexual marriage accords with the Episcopalians and not with the Catholics.

I believe the President when he says that he does not expect to be banned from Communion. He may or may not be correct in his belief. Only time will tell. However, I keep wondering about something. If the Bishops do vote 3-1 to ban him and other like elected officials, how likely would it be for his home Bishop in Wilmington, DE to still give him Communion?

Basil the Great said:

I believe the President when he says that he does not expect to be banned from Communion. He may or may not be correct in his belief. Only time will tell. However, I keep wondering about something. If the Bishops do vote 3-1 to ban him and other like elected officials, how likely would it be for his home Bishop in Wilmington, DE to still give him Communion?

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I do too, he's saying it with full knowledge that the USCCB doesn't have the spine to do what's right. He believes that he can wield the power of his office to bend the Church to his will. Unfortunately reality has proven him right thus far. I suspect that even if the USCCB drafted a document with some teeth that Biden would find a dissident priest or bishop who would quietly, or maybe even publicly, given him Holy Communion anyway.

Lord have mercy on all of these men (and women) who are so gravely mistaken about the Church.

Basil the Great said:

I believe the President when he says that he does not expect to be banned from Communion. He may or may not be correct in his belief. Only time will tell. However, I keep wondering about something. If the Bishops do vote 3-1 to ban him and other like elected officials, how likely would it be for his home Bishop in Wilmington, DE to still give him Communion?

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Very likely. Cardinal Gregory in Washington has already said he would not ban Biden. And the USCCB cannot force a bishop's hand on this matter as they have no real canonical authority to do so. Bishops really are independent in their dioceses, short of a council or the pope removing them for heresy or crime. So the whole thing is really moot. It does work as an indicator of faithfulness or lack of faithfulness of particular bishops. Unhappily that is about it.

Basil the Great said:

I believe the President when he says that he does not expect to be banned from Communion. He may or may not be correct in his belief. Only time will tell. However, I keep wondering about something. If the Bishops do vote 3-1 to ban him and other like elected officials, how likely would it be for his home Bishop in Wilmington, DE to still give him Communion?

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It is possible that someone like Nancy Pelosi will be banned in her district by archbishop Cordelione but not be banned in Washington by cardinal Gregory. And yet all she needs to do is find one sympathetic rebel priest in her district and get photographed taking communion to further weaponize the whole mess. That’s what she seems to have already telegraphed, that she gets to decide. So it really ends up in a schism. Deus vult?

chevyontheriver said:

We should arrange a trade.

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People for property! We'll take the buildings and they can have their poseurs.

chevyontheriver said:

It is possible that someone like Nancy Pelosi will be banned in her district by archbishop Cordelione but not be banned in Washington by cardinal Gregory. And yet all she needs to do is find one sympathetic rebel priest in her district and get photographed taking communion to further weaponize the whole mess. That’s what she seems to have already telegraphed, that she gets to decide. So it really ends up in a schism. Deus vult?

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Sign of the times. Things will get worse before they get better.
We know this because we've seen it already.
And yes, heads will roll, but it will be the heads of the Priests who uphold the sanctity of the sacraments, not those who give in to the world.
Joan of Arc, Duns Scotus, Popieszko, Pope John Paul I, etc.
Being a part of the Remnant has always been a dangerous position to take, and these days in which we live are no different; only featured on the 6pm news.

Fenwick said:

People for property! We'll take the buildings and they can have their poseurs.

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There are many priests who remain as Episcopalians because their pension is there and their job is there and they can't financially escape. There are many Episcopalian lay people who remain because they contributed mightily to a particular church building and it's endowment or they are interwoven with parish life. All these people would find it gut wrenching to leave. And the Episcopalian power structure doesn't want to make it easy for them to leave. If we could broker a deal whereby Episcopalian priests and congregations could escape with buildings and pensions intact I suspect a quarter would grab at the opportunity. If they want to then become Catholic, great. If not, OK as they would probably be better off.

I know. Something like this is not going to happen. But maybe it should.

chevyontheriver said:

There are many priests who remain as Episcopalians because their pension is there and their job is there and they can't financially escape. There are many Episcopalian lay people who remain because they contributed mightily to a particular church building and it's endowment or they are interwoven with parish life. All these people would find it gut wrenching to leave. And the Episcopalian power structure doesn't want to make it easy for them to leave. If we could broker a deal whereby Episcopalian priests and congregations could escape with buildings and pensions intact I suspect a quarter would grab at the opportunity. If they want to then become Catholic, great. If not, OK as they would probably be better off.

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I wouldn't be surprised if you're 100% correct on that. I wish we could do an anonymous poll amongst Episcopalians and find out, I suspect the High Church crowd especially would go for it.

I know the breakaway Continuing Anglican groups don't get the pensions and whatnot (though they may have their own that are fine), but man they sure would make some good Catholics. Seems like those are the ones who typically end up joining the Ordinariate.

Fenwick said:

I wouldn't be surprised if you're 100% correct on that. I wish we could do an anonymous poll amongst Episcopalians and find out, I suspect the High Church crowd especially would go for it.

I know the breakaway Continuing Anglican groups don't get the pensions and whatnot (though they may have their own that are fine), but man they sure would make some good Catholics. Seems like those are the ones who typically end up joining the Ordinariate.

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The Ordinariate is tiny because it's a big hurdle for a congregation to uproot and become Catholic. Almost all of them will lose their building. Almost all of them will lose any endowment. Their priests lose their income and retirement. And since they are leaving all that behind there are many who want to stay with what is comfortable. I don't particularly blame them.

IF they could leave the Episcopalians but keep the building, the endowment, have a provision for the priest's pension, and figure out how the priest could have an income while navigating becoming a Catholic priest, that would be much easier. But I don't think the Episcopalians want to let go so easily. It's an 'interesting' situation.

chevyontheriver said:

The Ordinariate is tiny because it's a big hurdle for a congregation to uproot and become Catholic. Almost all of them will lose their building. Almost all of them will lose any endowment. Their priests lose their income and retirement. And since they are leaving all that behind there are many who want to stay with what is comfortable. I don't particularly blame them.

IF they could leave the Episcopalians but keep the building, the endowment, have a provision for the priest's pension, and figure out how the priest could have an income while navigating becoming a Catholic priest, that would be much easier. But I don't think the Episcopalians want to let go so easily. It's an 'interesting' situation.

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There's one more thing that you haven't mentioned; most Episcopal priests are married with a wife and kids.
It would be easier for them to go Lutheran, if they were going somewhere.

pdudgeon said:

There's one more thing that you haven't mentioned; most Episcopal priests are married with a wife and kids.
It would be easier for them to go Lutheran, if they were going somewhere.

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I have met a few married Ordinariate priests. It might be easier to go Lutheran, maybe, but there is provision for married former Episcopal priests and it does indeed happen. Problem is what do they do while getting ready to become Catholic priests? They still have bills to pay. Many of them are financially trapped. Some of them wouldn't want to ever be Catholics. Various reasons for not escaping a place they really do want to escape from.

Gavin Ashendon did it. He was an Anglican priest and former chaplain to the queen.

https://archbishopcranmer.com/gavin-ashenden-resigns-chaplain-queen/

Former Chaplain to the Queen of England Converting to Catholicism

Catholic Convert Gavin Ashenden: 12 Months On — and 24 Converts Later

he did not bring a congregation with him and there is no word about him becoming a Catholic priest. But many people have followed his lead.

chevyontheriver said:

The Ordinariate is tiny because it's a big hurdle for a congregation to uproot and become Catholic. Almost all of them will lose their building. Almost all of them will lose any endowment. Their priests lose their income and retirement. And since they are leaving all that behind there are many who want to stay with what is comfortable. I don't particularly blame them.

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I don't either. You know you'd think with so many places where parishes are closing and consolidating that we'd at least have a property to give them. I know it would suck to lose the church they already meet in, especially cause it's probably very beautiful, but maybe it would make the jump just a wee bit easier.

I'm surprised there's not some sort of reallocation program. It kind of happens but it's more sporadic and dependent on the bishop/diocese. We've seen it with FSSP and ICKSP communities all the time like Saint Joseph's Oratory in Detroit; it's a shame the Ordinariate doesn't seem to get the same hookups and often end up sharing a building with another parish.

chevyontheriver said:

IF they could leave the Episcopalians but keep the building, the endowment, have a provision for the priest's pension, and figure out how the priest could have an income while navigating becoming a Catholic priest, that would be much easier. But I don't think the Episcopalians want to let go so easily. It's an 'interesting' situation.

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Makes you tip your hat that much more to the Ordinariate parishes who just said "to hell with it" and joined anyway, the conviction they must've had knowing what they were leaving behind is commendable.