Catholic House Democrats prepare to send bishops 'statement of principles' on Communion vote

Should Catholic politicians who support abortion be denied communion?

  • Yes

    Votes: 14 56.0%
  • No

    Votes: 11 44.0%

  • Total voters
    25

JimR-OCDS

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As soon as the Bishops start denying communion to (the mostly Republican) Catholic politicians who support the Death penalty, which, unlike abortion, is something Jesus personally spoke out against, then I'll entertain their desires as legitimately fair toward all Catholic Politicians, and not totally biased against Democrats only.

Of course if they would be interested in giving up their tax exempt status, then I'd be perfectly fine with them taking a public stance on whichever side of the Political Isle they want.

Except the death penalty is still allowed in the Church according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church

Abortion is the death of an innocent life.

Capital Punishment is used rarely to protect innocent life from those who would kill again if allowed to.
 
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hedrick

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I won't demonize anyone, only point out the inconsistency. If you want to condemn the Republicans go do so. I don't view them to be much better than democrats, the only difference is that they are more slow.

Still, can you explain to me the rationale for Biden wanted to remove the Hyde amendment and forcing you to pay for it?
I believe his position is that the Constitution doesn’t permit him to impose his religious views on others. I could understand a Catholic refusing to hold office under those circumstances, but it seems to be rare.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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I believe his position is that the Constitution doesn’t permit him to impose his religious views on others. I could understand a Catholic refusing to hold office under those circumstances, but it seems to be rare.

Except when Parousia's wants to argue for an imposition of his values in the form of a wider safety net and increased government spending that will never be paid back.

I too could understand Catholics refusing to hold office, if the cost was giving up their position on the sanctity of life. But evidently most Catholic Democrats prefer power to principle. Which is respectable if not machiavellian. I just wish they would use their power as Catholics and not as secular progressives.

If in the end, the only way to participate in this thing we know as the USA is to give up one's Catholic/Christian identity and accomplish nothing except the expansion of vice and the degradation of the whole of society. Why give it any such legitimacy to begin with?
 
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hedrick

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Except when Parousia's wants to argue for an imposition of his values in the form of a wider
I would not want to see that Catholic Church attempt to force politicians to support other Catholic social positions. I think there are good reasons for people to accept many of those positions, but I think it's very dangerous for churches to coerce leaders, even towards positions I agree with. We voted for Biden, not the Catholics bishops.

This was an issue when JFK was running: there were claims that the Vatican would dictate his policies. He didn't allow that, nor should any other Catholic leader. If, however, Biden gave in, I think this would be a serious problem. If he had other reasons, fine, but an attempt by the hierarchy to get him to give in would immediately make any act he took in opposition to abortion suspect.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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I would not want to see that Catholic Church attempt to force politicians to take support other Catholics social positions. I think there are good reasons for people to accept many of those positions, but I think it's very dangerous for churches to coerce leaders, even towards positions I agree with.

This was an issue when JFK was running: there were claims that the Vatican would dictate his policies. He didn't allow that, nor should any other Catholic leader. If, however, Biden gave in, I think this would be a serious problem. If he had other reasons, fine, but an attempt by the hierarchy to get him to give in would immediately make any act he took in opposition to abortion suspect.

Yet I notice that progressive Catholics on these forums have no qualm advocating generous spending programs which are in accords with a certain view of Catholic social teaching. They inveigh terribly at the bad character of Republicans or anyone who suggests it's not the government's money to spend in such a wild fashion, but abortion is going too far. That must be protected.

Then again, I don't think there being a Catholic politician in charge is automatically a good thing. JFK might have ran as a Catholic and aside from being against the communists, how much of the Catholic influence on his ideas and vision for society did he have to give up to be a respectable citizen? That's part of the problem of the USA. It forces conformity and the destruction of local ideas and groups into a bland and banal secularism.

Is Catholicism stronger now when it is widely accepted or tolerated? Or back when it was viewed as a Papist plot to take over America? If only Catholics in the USA had done that back then.
 
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civilwarbuff

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I'm all for that.
Then we can institute a national Menstruation registry, where all women of Child bearing age must submit a sample of their monthly menstrual cycle for examination and possible prosecution if any fetal tissue is present.

We can also put very strict behavioral requirements for pregnant women to follow, so we can better insure the health and welfare of the fetus takes top priority as it would be a crime to endanger them in any way.. We should outlaw certain foods, (junk foods) outlaw smoking, Alcohol consumption, outlaw certain activities for the mother that may endanger the Fetus (Car racing, Ice skating, Rock Climbing, etc). And Bishops should certainly deny communion to any mother who is found guilty of violating those laws.

I definitely think it is Government's Job to regulate all pregnancies with a fine tooth comb, conception through delivery, if we believe Fetal life is truly important enough.
Government should not stop at simply banning abortion.
Fully 1/2 to 2/3s of all pregnancies end in miscarriage, astronomically dwarfing the number of abortions.
Government should definitely step in to regulate every minute of every pregnancy with an iron fist.
So, I take it you don't have a problem with killing the unborn?
 
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civilwarbuff

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Jesus established the sacrament of the Holy Eucharist at the "Last Supper." It was the last Passover meal he celebrated with the Apostles before his passion and death.
So it is only to be done at Passover and not on a daily basis?......someone should tell the Pope.....
 
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East of Eden

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I'm considering voting no...

Because what if Catholic politicians are 'standing down' on abortion, because they realize that's the only way to get a foot in and get at least some Catholic/Christian principles into the political arena.

And how's that working out? Frauds like Biden and Pelosi absolutely should be denied communion, would you give it to Heinrich Himmler? More have been murdered by abortion in the US than Hitler ever dreamed of.

Apparently they believe in the separation of church and mind.
 
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Landon Caeli

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And how's that working out? Frauds like Biden and Pelosi absolutely should be denied communion, would you give it to Heinrich Himmler? More have been murdered by abortion in the US than Hitler ever dreamed of.

Apparently they believe in the separation of church and mind.

While I may personally agree, I'm still waiting on the Church, as slow as she is, to make a difinitive statement in Canon Law, specifically, about politicians who support abortion, and whether they should be receiving the Eucharust.
 
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civilwarbuff

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While I may personally agree, I'm still waiting on the Church, as slow as she is, to make a difinitive statement in Canon Law, specifically, about politicians who support abortion, and whether they should be receiving the Eucharust.
So, both feet planted firmly on both sides of the fence?
 
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chevyontheriver

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Catholic And Christian Democrats largely want abortion to be safe, legal and RARE.
The 'RARE' part was rhetoric from the Bill Clinton era and is no longer used.
 
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chevyontheriver

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While I may personally agree, I'm still waiting on the Church, as slow as she is, to make a difinitive statement in Canon Law, specifically, about politicians who support abortion, and whether they should be receiving the Eucharust.
The statement in Canon Law is there. But since Canon Law operates on Roman Law principles it requires a magistrate to apply the actual law. In this case a bishop. An unwilling bishop simply will not apply it. End of story. The problem is with the bishops and not with Canon Law.
 
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Landon Caeli

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So, both feet planted firmly on both sides of the fence?

I mean, it could be accomplished... If one were to admit they're politically Libertarian, but personally Catholic.

...But when you say your faith guides your policy decisions on immigration, spending or some other issue, but not on abortion, it does cause a problem, IMO.
 
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Landon Caeli

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The statement in Canon Law is there. But since Canon Law operates on Roman Law principles it requires a magistrate to apply the actual law. In this case a bishop. An unwilling bishop simply will not apply it. End of story. The problem is with the bishops and not with Canon Law.

I just *hope* that they know something, or see something that I don't. But we do know the Church is famously slow to react... She's conservative in nature... So she doesn't react to change very quickly at all.
 
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chevyontheriver

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I just *hope* that they know something, or see something that I don't.
The bishops? One can hope. Better, one can hope and pray and maybe even fast.
 
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Taodeching

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Fantine

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Hmm...how would this work out?

Biden put VP Harris in charge of immigration policy.

If he chose, he could put Harris in charge of fiscal decisions regarding Planned Parenthood or compassionate aid to foreign countries.

He could please the ideologically conservative bishops. Harris is Hindu and married to a Jewish man, impervious to the threats of single issue clerics.

Since Biden is clearly a man of integrity with one tragic flaw, as well as having many pressing responsibilities to handle on a daily basis, we can rest assured that if he puts it in Harris' hands it will be part of their division of power.

Most recent presidents have had strong partnerships with their VP's and have given them many responsibilities.

And TBT with a huge platform and 50 recalcitrant Republican Senators led by a world-class obstructionist, he needs the comfort of his genuine, lifelong faith undistracted by those who would rather see him "go it alone."

Question to the ideological bishops: If this is the best Biden can be with the help of frequent Mass and sacraments and rosaries, aren't you a little scared about what he'll do without them?
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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Hmm...how would this work out?

Biden put VP Harris in charge of immigration policy.

If he chose, he could put Harris in charge of fiscal decisions regarding Planned Parenthood or compassionate aid to foreign countries.

He could please the ideologically conservative bishops. Harris is Hindu and married to a Jewish man, impervious to the threats of single issue clerics.

Since Biden is clearly a man of integrity with one tragic flaw, as well as having many pressing responsibilities to handle on a daily basis, we can rest assured that if he puts it in Harris' hands it will be part of their division of power.

Most recent presidents have had strong partnerships with their VP's and have given them many responsibilities.

And TBT with a huge platform and 50 recalcitrant Republican Senators led by a world-class obstructionist, he needs the comfort of his genuine, lifelong faith undistracted by those who would rather see him "go it alone."

Question to the ideological bishops: If this is the best Biden can be with the help of frequent Mass and sacraments and rosaries, aren't you a little scared about what he'll do without them?

It's more than just one tragic flaw. Biden denies the Catholic understanding of homosexuality and thinks it's a good thing to be a homosexual. Whereas the Catholic Church teaches homosexuality is intrinsically disordered.

Why should anyone entertain the notion of letting Biden and Nancy Pelosi completely off the hook? Simply so they don't do what exactly? What more could they advocate which isn't already at odds with the Catholic Church?
 
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