IS ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT GOD'S CHURCH?

Guojing · Jun 20, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
I did answer this here. As posted some time ago, the old covenant was specifically to the seed of Israel in the flesh decedents from Abraham, and also to those of the other nations that wanted to follow the God of Israel and the covenant (word of God) to Israel in the flesh. (e.g. mixed multitude *Exodus 12:28; Numbers 11:4, the stranger that is within their gate *Exodus 24:8-11; Jethro the father in law of Moses *Exodus 18, see also the example of Rahab the harlot *Joshua 2; Ruth and Naomi, Caleb *Numbers 32-12 who was a Kenizzite one of the Canaanite tribes *Genesis 15:19, Othniel who was Caleb's brother *Judges 3:9, Jael Judges 4 and Judges 5 was a Kenite of the Canaanites (Genesis 15:19), Uriah and Bathsheba the Hittite *2 Samuel 11:12 etc, etc, before the covenant of course there was Noah and his family, Melchisedek the Priest, Baalim *Numbers 22 to Numbers 24 who were all gentile believers in God. Now we are in the new covenant which is open to all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. All those who believe and follow Gods' Word in the new covenant are now Gods' Israel (see OP and supporting posts and scriptures on page 1).

Hope this helps.

It takes so many reminders just for you to answer a simple question.

So you do agree that gentiles who wanted to be under the Old Covenant had to join Israel.

I can understand now why you automatically want to believe we are also God's Israel now, because you start with the axiom that "We are in the New Covenant".

Guojing · Jun 20, 2021

OldWiseGuy said:
If I may, if you mean the descendants of the various tribes of ancient Israel, then yes the church is loaded with them. It is to them that Jesus was sent only, and to them that the disciples were to go as well.

Yes, it takes a long time for many Christians to realize that about Jesus's first coming. Every time I bring up Matthew 15:24, they will try all means to say that Jesus was saying something else there.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 20, 2021

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ I did answer this here. As posted some time ago, the old covenant was specifically to the seed of Israel in the flesh decedents from Abraham, and also to those of the other nations that wanted to follow the God of Israel and the covenant (word of God) to Israel in the flesh. (e.g. mixed multitude *Exodus 12:28; Numbers 11:4, the stranger that is within their gate *Exodus 24:8-11; Jethro the father in law of Moses *Exodus 18, see also the example of Rahab the harlot *Joshua 2; Ruth and Naomi, Caleb *Numbers 32-12 who was a Kenizzite one of the Canaanite tribes *Genesis 15:19, Othniel who was Caleb's brother *Judges 3:9, Jael Judges 4 and Judges 5 was a Kenite of the Canaanites (Genesis 15:19), Uriah and Bathsheba the Hittite *2 Samuel 11:12 etc, etc, before the covenant of course there was Noah and his family, Melchisedek the Priest, Baalim *Numbers 22 to Numbers 24 who were all gentile believers in God. Now we are in the new covenant which is open to all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. All those who believe and follow Gods' Word in the new covenant are now Gods' Israel (see OP and supporting posts and scriptures on page 1).

Your response here...

Guojing said:
It takes so many reminders just for you to answer a simple question. So you do agree that gentiles who wanted to be under the Old Covenant had to join Israel. I can understand now why you automatically want to believe we are also God's Israel now, because you start with the axiom that "We are in the New Covenant".

What do you think the post you are quoting from is saying?

Guojing · Jun 20, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Your response here...

What do you think the post you are quoting from is saying?

To clarify, you are saying there that gentiles who want to be under the Old Covenant, during OT, must join Israel correct?

LoveGodsWord · Jun 20, 2021

Guojing said:
To clarify, you are saying there that gentiles who want to be under the Old Covenant, during OT, must join Israel correct?

Yes absolutely, as Israel in the old covenant were all those who were born of the flesh from the seed of Abraham. In the new covenant according to the scriptures Gods' Israel are no longer those who are born of the flesh but all those who are born of the Spirit through believing and following what Gods' Word says (see OP scriptures) *Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:27-28; Romans 2:27-28 etc. This is why Jesus says truly truly I say unto you unless a man is born again of the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-9. Those who are born of God do not practice sin. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant.

Guojing · Jun 20, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Yes absolutely, as Israel in the old covenant were all those who were born of the flesh from the seed of Abraham. In the new covenant according to the scriptures Gods' Israel are no longer those who are born of the flesh but all those who are born of the Spirit through believing and following what Gods' Word says (see OP scriptures) *Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:27-28; Romans 2:27-28 etc. This is why Jesus says truly truly I say unto you unless a man is born again of the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:4-9. Those who are born of God do not practice sin. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant.

So my point is, you begin with this axiom

We are in the New Covenant

Then if you believe that to be true, you naturally will also think that us in the Body of Christ must be God's Israel.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 20, 2021

Guojing said:
So my point is, you begin with this axiom
We are in the New Covenant. Then if you believe that to be true, you naturally will also think that us in the Body of Christ must be God's Israel.

Scriptures have already been provided showing that Gods' Israel in the new covenant are no longer those who are born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham *Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 2:28-29 but now are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word who are now born of the Spirit (see the scriptures already provided in the links in the OP). Only Gods' Word is true and we must believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. What is it you do not believe?

Guojing · Jun 20, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Scriptures have already been provided showing that Gods' Israel in the new covenant are no longer those who are born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham *Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 2:28-29 but now are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word who are now born of the Spirit (see the scriptures already provided in the links in the OP). Only Gods' Word is true and we must believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. What is it you do not believe?

I think I already mentioned this to you

True Israel/Israel of God (Galatians 6:16) refers to the little flock out of the nation Israel that believe, those that are pastored by James the brother of Jesus, at the end of Acts.

They continue to stay zealous to the Law of Moses, even after they believed in Christ as their Messiah (Acts 21:18-25, James 2:24-26, 1 John 2:29, 1 John 3:7).

The rest of the nation Israel has fallen in disbelief (Acts 7:51, Romans 11:1-5)

As a result of the fall of the nation of Israel, salvation without the Law of Moses (Romans 4:5), is now open to everyone, Jew and gentiles, thru Paul's gospel of grace (Romans 11:11).

All Jews and gentiles who thus believe in Paul's gospel, found in 1 Cor 15:1-4, are now in the Body of Christ, where there is neither Jew nor gentile.

But the Body of Christ is not the same as the little flock. They are 2 separate groups of believers.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 20, 2021

Guojing said:
I think I already mentioned this to you

True Israel/Israel of God (Galatians 6:16) refers to the little flock out of the nation Israel that believe, those that are pastored by James the brother of Jesus, at the end of Acts.

They continue to stay zealous to the Law of Moses, even after they believed in Christ as their Messiah (Acts 21:18-25, James 2:24-26, 1 John 2:29, 1 John 3:7).

The rest of the nation Israel has fallen in disbelief (Acts 7:51, Romans 11:1-5)

As a result of the fall of the nation of Israel, salvation without the Law of Moses (Romans 4:5), is now open to everyone, Jew and gentiles, thru Paul's gospel of grace (Romans 11:11).

All Jews and gentiles who thus believe in Paul's gospel, found in 1 Cor 15:1-4, are now in the Body of Christ, where there is neither Jew nor gentile.

But the Body of Christ is not the same as the little flock. They are 2 separate groups of believers.

Your words have no truth and there is not a single scripture that you have provided here in this post that shows that Gods' Israel in the new covenant are those who are born of the flesh and not of the Spirit. God's true Israel has many names within the scriptures. This does not make them not Gods' Israel or something that is different to Gods' Israel. The body of Christ, the little flock, the bride of Christ, the pure woman is God's Israel according to the scriptures.

Guojing · Jun 20, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Your words have no truth and there is not a single scripture that you have provided here in this post that shows that Gods' Israel in the new covenant are those who are born of the flesh and not of the Spirit. God's true Israel has many names within the scriptures. This does not make them not Gods' Israel or something that is different to Gods' Israel. The body of Christ, the little flock, the bride of Christ, the pure woman is God's Israel according to the scriptures.

I have provided scriptures for my points.

You will naturally come to different interpretations because you cannot separate Israel from the Body of Christ. To you, they are equivalent.

But that is fine to me, you can show scripture to others but how they want to interpret them is beyond your control.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 20, 2021

Guojing said:
I have provided scriptures for my points.

You will naturally come to different interpretations because you cannot separate Israel from the Body of Christ. To you, they are equivalent.

But that is fine to me, you can show scripture to others but how they want to interpret them is beyond your control.

Sorry I do not believe you. You have not supplied any scripture for your position as shown in the very post you are quoting from. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant.

Guojing · Jun 20, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Sorry I do not believe you. You have not supplied any scripture for your position as shown in the very post you are quoting from. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant.

Which scripture in this post of mine that you disagree with and what is your alternative interpretation?

True Israel/Israel of God (Galatians 6:16) refers to the little flock out of the nation Israel that believe, those that are pastored by James the brother of Jesus, at the end of Acts.

They continue to stay zealous to the Law of Moses, even after they believed in Christ as their Messiah (Acts 21:18-25, James 2:24-26, 1 John 2:29, 1 John 3:7).

The rest of the nation Israel has fallen in disbelief (Acts 7:51, Romans 11:1-5)

As a result of the fall of the nation of Israel, salvation without the Law of Moses (Romans 4:5), is now open to everyone, Jew and gentiles, thru Paul's gospel of grace (Romans 11:11).

All Jews and gentiles who thus believe in Paul's gospel, found in 1 Cor 15:1-4, are now in the Body of Christ, where there is neither Jew nor gentile.

But the Body of Christ is not the same as the little flock. They are 2 separate groups of believers.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 20, 2021

Guojing said:
Which scripture in this post of mine that you disagree with and what is your alternative interpretation?

True Israel/Israel of God (Galatians 6:16) refers to the little flock out of the nation Israel that believe, those that are pastored by James the brother of Jesus, at the end of Acts.

They continue to stay zealous to the Law of Moses, even after they believed in Christ as their Messiah (Acts 21:18-25, James 2:24-26, 1 John 2:29, 1 John 3:7).

The rest of the nation Israel has fallen in disbelief (Acts 7:51, Romans 11:1-5)

As a result of the fall of the nation of Israel, salvation without the Law of Moses (Romans 4:5), is now open to everyone, Jew and gentiles, thru Paul's gospel of grace (Romans 11:11).

All Jews and gentiles who thus believe in Paul's gospel, found in 1 Cor 15:1-4, are now in the Body of Christ, where there is neither Jew nor gentile.

But the Body of Christ is not the same as the little flock. They are 2 separate groups of believers.

I disagree with none of the scriptures. It is your interpretation of the scriptures I disagree with. None of the scriptures you have provided state that Gods' Israel in the new covenant is not the church and none of the scriptures you have provided here say that we are not in the new covenant. That is the reason why I disagree with your teachings because they are not biblical.

Guojing · Jun 20, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
I disagree with none of the scriptures. It is your interpretation of the scriptures I disagree with. None of the scriptures you have provided state that Gods' Israel in the new covenant is not the church and none of the scriptures you have provided here say that we are not in the new covenant. That is the reason why I disagree with your teachings because they are not biblical.

so likewise people disagree with your interpretation.

Just because you disagree does not mean people did not provide scripture

LoveGodsWord · Jun 21, 2021

Guojing said:
so likewise people disagree with your interpretation. Just because you disagree does not mean people did not provide scripture

I do not think I personally know of anyone that agrees with your interpretation of the scriptures that we are not in the new covenant. I have already provided you with a lot of scripture in this regards and also included the very words of Jesus verbatim saying that Gods' true Israel in the flesh of the old covenant are not God's Israel born of the Spirit in the new covenant. They are God's words not my words (verbatim). So no you have provided an interpretation that does not come from scripture. You have read into the scriptures what they do not say and do not teach. Where as in return, you have been provided scripture verbatim which are God's words not mine. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. I do not believe your interpretation of the scriptures are biblical and have shown why from the scriptures. Of course you are free to believe as you wish as that is between you and God. My posts and the scriptures provided in them have only been sent in love and as a help to you. What you do with the scriptures shared with you that disagree with your teachings are between you and God. I do not judge you (see John 12:47-48).

Guojing · Jun 21, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
I do not think I personally know of anyone that agrees with your interpretation of the scriptures that we are not in the new covenant. I have already provided you with a lot of scripture in this regards and also included the very words of Jesus verbatim saying that Gods' true Israel in the flesh of the old covenant are not God's Israel born of the Spirit in the new covenant. They are God's words not my words (verbatim). So no you have provided an interpretation that does not come from scripture. You have read into the scriptures what they do not say and do not teach. Where as in return, you have been provided scripture verbatim which are God's words not mine. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. I do not believe your interpretation of the scriptures are biblical and have shown why from the scriptures. Of course you are free to believe as you wish as that is between you and God. My posts and the scriptures provided in them have only been sent in love and as a help to you. What you do with the scriptures shared with you that disagree with your teachings are between you and God. I do not judge you (see John 12:47-48).

it’s because I don’t lump the body of Christ together with Israel, while you do

so when they say the new covenant was promised to Israel in Hebrews 8:8, I don’t try to claim that when I am not

LoveGodsWord · Jun 21, 2021

Guojing said:
it’s because I don’t lump the body of Christ together with Israel, while you do so when they say the new covenant was promised to Israel in Hebrews 8:8, I don’t try to claim that when I am not

Not really, as posted earlier your argument here makes no sense and is not biblical. For example, if Israel is called a women in the bible in both the old and new testament scriptures, does that mean that the women is no longer Gods' Israel and is now a woman instead? Or if the body is the believers and Christ is the head of the believers which make up the Church, does that mean that the body is no longer of the heard because God calls the body Israel? Your not thinking your argument through as it makes no sense. Gods' Israel in the new covenant according to the scriptures are no longer those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but all those born of the promise through faith *see Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29; Galatians 3:28-29. Unless a man is born again according to Jesus he cannot even see or enter into the kingdom of heaven. God's Israel according to the scriptures are now all those who believe and follow Gods' Word according to the promise. If you have not a part of God's Israel you have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12. Gentile believers are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27.

Guojing · Jun 21, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Not really, as posted earlier your argument here makes no sense and is not biblical. For example, if Israel is called a women in the bible in both the old and new testament scriptures, does that mean that the women is no longer Gods' Israel and is now a woman instead? Of if the body is the believers and Christ is the head of the believers which make up the Church, does that mean that the body is no longer Gods' Israel? Your not thinking your argument through as it makes no sense. Gods' Israel in the new covenant according to the scriptures are no longer those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but all those born of the promise through faith *see Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29; Galatians 3:28-29. Unless a man is born again according to Jesus he cannot even see or enter into the kingdom of heaven. God's Israel according to the scriptures are now all those who believe and follow Gods' Word according to the promise. If you have not a part of God's Israel you have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12. Gentile believers are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27.

It’s because you cannot imagine being saved without the new covenant.

that is the mystery of the body of Christ that was revealed to Paul

LoveGodsWord · Jun 21, 2021

Guojing said:
It’s because you cannot imagine being saved without the new covenant. that is the mystery of the body of Christ that was revealed to Paul

No it is because I believe and follow Gods' Word.

Guojing · Jun 21, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
No it is because I believe and follow Gods' Word.

which one of us here don’t clam to do that?

IS ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT GOD'S CHURCH?

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