How pastors and health experts are struggling to close the vaccine gap among White evangelicals

SigurdReginson

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Exactly as many as God wanted to take.
Man's days are in the hands of the Lord ( Job 14 ), not a result of our choices.

I'm sorry, but this just doesn't make sense to me on any level. So you are saying preventative measures don't make a difference. Do you think the polio vaccine had no effect on eliminating polio at all?...

To me, personal safety, at least for adults, should be left up to the adults to decide.

Within reason, I would agree. When that that freedom begins to infringe on the freedom of others, that's where I take issue. You can swing your fists in the air all you want, but your freedom ends where my nose begins.

On a side note, I'm not putting anything into my body that purposefully manipulates my DNA and could lead to cancer.

I'm assuming you are referring to the Moderna vaccine. The "DNA manipulation" thing is a conspiracy theory. You can read more from the official CDC website, if you care to know.

COVID-19 Vaccine Facts

There are also traditional dead virus vaccines if you are more comfortable with that, though. As for cancer, who said anything about cancer?

Perhaps you may wish to read up on the risks (and potential and real side effects) of using what was, until recently, an experimental approach to developing vaccines.

I have. Nothing I read was nearly as doom and gloom as you seem to suggest. Where did you read that it was so terrible? Keep in mind, the RNA method that Moderna uses isn't some new thing... It's been around for quite a while, and if any issues would have been shown to be a probability, they surely would have manifested themselves by now, it would seem.

I agree...
But when compared to ongoing and yearly US death rates from things that are either preventable ( like smoking, alcoholism, AIDS and heart disease... or already have treatments like Influenza, certain forms of Hepatitus, Tuberculosis and STD's ) how does just one respiratory bug that is responsible for the deaths of over 600,000 people in a single year make mandatory vaccinations the right thing to do?

Because it only takes a small effort to save many lives, much like wearing a seatbelt. To me, life is sacred - especially when such little effort can be made in saving it.
 
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pescador

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Maybe that pastor should quit worrying about competing for his audience and recognize his audience is savvy enough to know when he's just parroting the government line and would prefer he stick to the gospel instead.

...just a thought.

As long as we are in this world we should love our neighbors as ourselves. This includes informing them how modern medicine can save their lives and save their families a lot of grief.

Anyone who denies the efficacy of the COVID-19 vaccines is ignorant and/or being used by Satan.
 
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Navair2

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I'm sorry, but this just doesn't make sense to me on any level. So you are saying preventative measures don't make a difference. Do you think the polio vaccine had no effect on eliminating polio at all?...
I'm a little confused at this point.
You're posting on a Christian forum, identified yourself as an Atheist, asking questions and making comments from a position of not having any faith in God's words...

Can you at least understand that some people believe the Bible and trust in the Lord above the efforts of men?
Within reason, I would agree. When that that freedom begins to infringe on the freedom of others, that's where I take issue. You can swing your fists in the air all you want, but your freedom ends where my nose begins.
I agree.
My freedoms are given to me by the Lord and by the governments that He has ordained.
To be more specific, if the US government mandates vaccinations, then I will of course comply.

But for now, my opting-out of being vaccinated for certain things ( and my compliance to be vaccinated for everything when I was a member of the United States Navy for over 10 years ) in no way affects you.;)
I have. Nothing I read was nearly as doom and gloom as you seem to suggest. Where did you read that it was so terrible? Keep in mind, the RNA method that Moderna uses isn't some new thing... It's been around for quite a while, and if any issues would have been shown to be probably, they surely would have manifested themselves by now, it would seem.
Nevertheless, I trust it even less than conventional vaccine methods.
Because it only takes a small effort to save many lives, much like wearing a seatbelt. To me, life is sacred - especially when such little effort can be made in saving it.
My life isn't sacred to me...yours is sacred to me.

That said,
Did you get the vaccine?
If so, then me not being vaccinated is no threat to you, sir.

When they make available other vaccines that are developed using the tried-and true methods ( other than the current ones ), I'll re-consider it.:)
 
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pescador

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No, it wasn't free.
Someone had to pay the pharmaceutical companies for both its development and its production.

In other words, what is "free" now, will be made up in taxes.;)

Their shots were free because they weren't charged. Obvious!
 
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Navair2

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Their shots were free because they weren't charged. Obvious!
Nothing is free...

Someone has to pay for it.
For example, Jesus Christ paid for my sins, when I will not have to.

But if you're saying that the vaccines are free of charge to them, then I won't make a fight of it.
Good afternoon to you.:)
 
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essentialsaltes

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Can you at least understand that some people believe the Bible and trust in the Lord above the efforts of men?

Sure, but don't you go to the dentist? Get your car's oil changed? Buy insurance? Order pizza?

You don't just put everything in God's hands, ignoring the help and services provided by other human beings.
 
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Navair2

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Anyone who denies the efficacy of the COVID-19 vaccines is ignorant and/or being used by Satan.
Interesting comment, and one in which I respectfully disagree.
To me, anyone who relies on the Lord first and foremost, has a much more trustworthy Friend (that sticks closer than a brother), than any man-made vaccine could possibly be.

As an example, ever since this first started I've had no reason to fear it, because I knew that He would deliver me from my illness...and even if He did not, I would go to be with Him.

But I also knew that were I to choose to get vaccinated, then I was free to do that as well.
 
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Crwth

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As long as we are in this world we should love our neighbors as ourselves. This includes informing them how modern medicine can save their lives and save their families a lot of grief.

Anyone who denies the efficacy of the COVID-19 vaccines is ignorant and/or being used by Satan.
Not sure who, if anyone is or has done that here.
And I'm sure that the families and friends of those (albeit few) who've died from the vaccine would necessarily appreciate being called "ignorant" and "used by Satan."
 
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Navair2

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Sure, but don't you go to the dentist? Get your car's oil changed? Buy insurance? Order pizza?
Yes I do, at least in many cases.
You don't just put everything in God's hands, ignoring the help and services provided by other human beings.
What I do is put Him first, and I do not ultimately trust in fallible men ( Proverbs 3:5-7 )...
Not even myself.

I trust Him to provide, and He often points me to places and people that I can go to, in order to meet my earthly needs.

At the end of the day, this isn't my world...
I'm just passing through. :)
 
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hedrick

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No one said they did.

Do I need to explain the numbers? Ok.... The likelihood of someone in the United States catching the virus and dying from it is less than 0.2%

One first needs to catch the virus - then having caught the virus, it needs to cause their death. The likelihood of that happening (in the US) is 0.2%
You criticized a post that obviously was using a mortality rate. I cited a page giving risk of death across the whole population, which is what you're talking about, by age, as well as a reasonable estimate of mortality rate.
 
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SigurdReginson

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I'm a little confused at this point.
You're posting on a Christian forum, identified yourself as an Atheist, asking questions and making comments from a position of not having any faith in God's words...

Well, to be fair, the reason I identify myself as "Atheist" is because this forum won't allow me to identify myself as the way I prefer, so I have to choose the closest thing. I'd prefer to identify myself as "non-religious" as I do have a Christian background and don't have such a hardline stance on anything.

That said, though, your point still stands.

Can you at least understand that some people believe the Bible and trust in the Lord above the efforts of men?

I guess my intention wasn't really in trying to "make a point," but was more a question about your personal beliefs in the light of world events, such as preventative measures vs. god's will in who lives and who dies, and how you reconcile the evidence that safety measures do seem to make a difference. It is an issue that doesn't have anything to do with the OP, though, so feel free to drop it. I just enjoy picking people's brains. :D

I agree.
My freedoms are given to me by the Lord and by the governments that He has ordained.
To be more specific, if the US government mandates vaccinations, then I will of course comply.

That in no way affects you.;)

I guess one reason I do feel strongly about it is that I work in a hospital. More specifically, I work in the ICU (intensive care unit), and the CCU (critical care unit). I live in a population dense area. The hospital I work at is 8 floors high, and each floor is bigger than a football field - it's the biggest hospital west of Seattle. I've seen a lot of people dying since working there, and it's been kind of sobering to see how many of them have been in isolation rooms due to covid infections (we've been keeping them in the CCU). Just my personal experiences on things, so it does color my biases. I realize my exposure to the virus' effects are concentrated and very specific to my region, but it's still something I have to look at every time I come into work.

Nevertheless, I trust it even less than conventional vaccine methods.

Can I ask why you don't trust conventional vaccine methods? Sure, there can be problems with getting a vaccine shot, such as allergic reaction, but what about vaccine shots do you intrinsically not trust?

My life isn't sacred to me...yours is sacred to me.

You should view yourself a little differently than that, IMO. Disregard of one's self limits the aspirations that one has for themselves. On the surface, that would seem selfish, but in strengthening one's self, folks can better lift up those around them. Meh, that's just been my own experiences, at least. For those predisposed to selfless action, neglect of the self can be harmful.

That said,
Did you get the vaccine?

You bet I did. I've seen what happens to my coworkers when they've refused it. :D We just got through the third outbreak in my establishment (2 in the old hospital, 1 in the new one I work at now - we just moved into this one a few months ago).

If so, then me not being vaccinated is no threat to you, sir.

True. I'm concerned less about me, and more about my brother who suffers from an immunodeficiency disorder, though. I'm also concerned for my dad who is in his 70s and is allergic to vaccine shots. The age range that I notice that takes the hardest toll on folks seems to be 60+ who get infected.

When they make available other vaccines that are developed using the tried-and true methods ( other than the current ones ), I'll re-consider it.:)

:thumbsup:
 
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RDKirk

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Retired pastor Jerry Belloit waited in his car at 4 a.m. on the first day coronavirus vaccine doses were available in his rural Florida community earlier this spring. His wife and his mother were with him, all eager to be among the first 500 people to get the shot.

Convincing the rest of the congregation at his church to get the shot proved to be more difficult.

[In polls, white evangelicals have the highest levels of refusing the vaccine.]

The reasons for White evangelicals rejecting or hesitating to get vaccinated against the coronavirus are complex and not necessarily tied to religious doctrine.

Much of the hard work in convincing the faithful to get vaccinated is falling on people such as Belloit, who say they are facing a deluge of misinformation.

“Pastor Jerry did send me an email with a lot of information on it, and I did scroll through it a little bit,” [one of Belloit's reluctant parishioners] told The Post. She didn’t read the whole email, she said, but it did make her feel more confident — to a point. ... But she said she went back and forth and remained “wishy-washy” on her decision.

--

“I’ve had pastors say to me: ‘I can’t compete. Tucker Carlson gets them for 12 hours a week. I get them for an hour,’ ” Chang said.

Four Florida evangelical pastors interviewed by The Washington Post agreed that views on coronavirus vaccines are largely shaped by political and other cultural beliefs, with government mistrust being a key factor.

I know you're an atheist, but I keep telling you...they are suffering from a great delusion.
 
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essentialsaltes

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I know you're an atheist, but I keep telling you...they are suffering from a great delusion.

It doesn't require any faith to see they are deluded.
 
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FenderTL5

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It doesn't require any faith to see they are deluded.
Indeed.

I suppose one part of your OP is questionable, as demonstrated in this thread:

The reasons for White evangelicals rejecting or hesitating to get vaccinated against the coronavirus are complex and not necessarily tied to religious doctrine..
“I’ve had pastors say to me: ‘I can’t compete. Tucker Carlson gets them for 12 hours a week. I get them for an hour,’ ” Chang said..
It would appear that some get their doctrinal cues from the likes of Tucker Carlson, or at the very least can't distinguish Tucker's form of entertainment from facts nor faith.
 
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jayem

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Can you at least understand that some people believe the Bible and trust in the Lord above the efforts of men?

But can’t God work through the agency of men? Is it not possible that mRNA vaccine technology is God’s gift to us. And he expects us to use it. How can you know this isn’t the case?

But for now, my opting-out of being vaccinated for certain things ( and my compliance to be vaccinated for everything when I was a member of the United States Navy for over 10 years ) in no way affects you.;)

That said,
Did you get the vaccine?
If so, then me not being vaccinated is no threat to you, sir.

Perhaps not directly. I did get the Pfizer vaccine. I even volunteered for the clinical trial. But anyone who contracts a pandemic illness and seeks medical attention stresses our health care system. Which affects all of us. Last year, during the peak Covid incidence, there were times when nearly every ICU bed in my area was filled. Critically ill patients—many who were seriously injured, or suffered from non-Covid illnesses—were being sent out of state to get care. Do you not realize what a burden this is? And the cost involved? You may not make a vaccinated person sick, but if you get medical care, you’re not the only one who pays for it. Everyone—employers, government, and all us who have health insurance ultimately foot the bill. Remember John Donne? “No man is a island…” Especially in the 21st century, we all depend on each other, and we’re all affected by what other people do.
 
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Navair2

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But can’t God work through the agency of men? Is it not possible that mRNA vaccine technology is God’s gift to us. And he expects us to use it. How can you know this isn’t the case?
How can you know that it is?
Personally speaking, I'd rather trust the Lord than vaccines.

Does that seem strange?
I admit that faith is a strange thing...and people who have it don't, at first glance, seem rational.
But that is what faith is...
"Irrationally" trusting in Someone who "isn't there".:)

That said, I'm not above getting them.
What I am concerned about, is people telling me that in order to love my neighbor, I must get a newly -developed set of vaccines that I'd rather not get....instead of waiting patiently to get ones that are being developed using the older methods.

Respectfully, you and anyone else has no right to demand that I get them, or to even make me feel like I'm not doing my civic duty in opting out, for the time being.
 
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Navair2

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Perhaps not directly. I did get the Pfizer vaccine. I even volunteered for the clinical trial. But anyone who contracts a pandemic illness and seeks medical attention stresses our health care system. Which affects all of us.
I'm not part of "you", and if I never contract it, then what harm did I do for not taking part in a batch of DNA-manipulating vaccines?

Are you telling me that your life so revolves around mine, that me not getting a vaccine directly impacts you and your life?

I don't believe that for an instant.
 
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Navair2

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Last year, during the peak Covid incidence, there were times when nearly every ICU bed in my area was filled. Critically ill patients—many who were seriously injured, or suffered from non-Covid illnesses—were being sent out of state to get care.
I'm sorry about that.
Do you not realize what a burden this is?
Burden to who?
I'm not being a burden to anyone by opting out of a set of vaccines that were "fast-tracked" and that the medical community-at-large really has no hard data about long-term side-effects and such...
Vaccines that have only been available for less than a year and which have had no time for anyone to genuinely study how they really affect people.

Please don't place your concerns about how many live and how many die in this world on me and people like me....Place them on your Creator who makes life and then, for reasons of His own, takes it when our days are done.

We as Christians are not responsible for the death and destruction that happens in this life.
If you'll look carefully, we want peace, not war.
We want to love our neighbors, not hate them.

But, with all due respect, that also does not give my neighbor the right to force me to get involved in this world and its affairs, when the Lord tells me not to.
 
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