IS ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT GOD'S CHURCH?

Guojing

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What is your point? You did not make one, because your premise that we are not in the new covenant now is not biblical.

Just answer the question and you see my point why I brought up Matthew 15:24 to you originally.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Just answer the question and you see my point why I brought up Matthew 15:24 to you originally.
Tell me how your question was not answered? You asked the question do I believe Matthew 15:24. I already said of course I do and asked you what has Matthew 15:24 have to do with what you were quoting from? - Nothing. Then I asked you do you believe what Jesus says in Matthew 28:19? All I have heard from you is silence.
 
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Guojing

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OldWiseGuy

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Clare73

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The question is what was the role of the 'lost tribes' in the formation of the early church, and beyond?
We find them in the NT in Acts 26:7 and James 1:1.

And I still don't have an example from Scripture of "nations" being used to refer to "Israel."
 
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OldWiseGuy

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We find them in the NT in Acts 26:7 and James 1:1.

And I still don't have an example from Scripture of "nations" being used to refer to "Israel."

Romans 9
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Please specify the verse where "nations" is used to refer to "Israel."
There is none in my Bible in Romans 9.

Gentiles = nations = Israel. Verses 22 and 30.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I'm not seeing the number of any verse given in Romans 9 where the word "nations" is used to refer to "Israel."

Verses 24 and 30. The term used is Gentiles (nations, tribes). Verse 25 makes this clear.
 
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Clare73

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Verses 22 and 30.
Verses 24 and 30. The term used is Gentiles (nations, tribes).
Verse 25 makes this clear.
In Romans 9, v. 24 refers to both Gentiles (ethnos) and Jews (yehudim),
and Paul teaches that v. 25 is fulfilled in the Gentiles.
How does that make clear that "nations" (ethnos) refers to "Israel?"

And in v. 30, the Gentiles (ethnos) are contrasted to Jews (yehudim) in v.31, not equivalent to yehudim.
How does that make clear that "nations" (ethnos) refers to "Israel?"
 
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OldWiseGuy

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In Romans 9, the apostle Paul teaches in v. 24 that v. 25 is fulfilled in the Gentiles (ethnos) as well as the Jews (yehudim), i.e., Israel.
How does that make clear that "nations" (ethnos) refers to "Israel?"

And in v. 30, the Gentiles (ethnos) are contrasted to Jews (yehudim) in v.31, not equivalent to yehudim.
How does that make clear that "nations" (ethnos) refers to "Israel?"

Romans 9 is all about Israel, not true Gentiles. That the word Gentiles is used is the responsibility of the translators, but the meaning is clear, especially as noted in verse 25 which is a direct reference to 'the house of Israel'.
 
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Clare73

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Clare73 said:
In Romans 9, v. 24 refers to both Gentiles (ethnos) and Jews (yehudim),
and Paul teaches that v. 25 is fulfilled in the Gentiles.
How does that make clear that "nations" (ethnos) refers to "Israel?"

And in v. 30, the Gentiles (ethnos) are contrasted to Jews (yehudim) in v.31, not equivalent to yehudim.
How does that make clear that "nations" (ethnos) refers to "Israel?"
Romans 9 is all about Israel, not true Gentiles.
Except in vv. 24, 30-31 where ethnos (Gentiles) is used in contrast to yehudim (Jews).
That the word Gentiles is used is the responsibility of the translators,
There is no other way to translate ethnos in vv. 24, 30 when it is being contrasted to yehudim.
but the meaning is clear, especially as noted in verse 25 which is a direct reference to 'the house of Israel'.
Yes, and which Paul says is fulfilled in the Gentiles.

"True" Gentiles. I'm not aware of any distinction between Gentiles and "true Gentiles" in Scripture.

Did you mean true Israel?

And I still don't have Scripture where "nations" is used to mean "Israel."
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Except in vv. 24, 30-31 where ethnos (Gentiles) is used in contrast to yehudim (Jews).
There is no other way to translate ethnos in vv. 24, 30 when it is being contrasted to yehudim.

Yes, and which Paul says is fulfilled in the Gentiles.

"True" Gentiles. I'm not aware of any distinction between Gentiles and "true Gentiles" in Scripture.

Did you mean true Israel?

And I still don't have Scripture where "nations" is used to mean "Israel."

Verse 25 reveals reconciliation with the house of Israel, not fulfillment through the Gentiles.
 
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Clare73

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Verse 25 reveals reconciliation with the house of Israel, not fulfillment through the Gentiles.
Reconciliation of Gentiles with Isreal is not the subject of Romans 9:24-25,
the point is contrast: of the "objects of mercy," to whom God is making known the riches of his glory through the contrasting "objects of his wrath"--prepared for destruction (v. 22-23).
In continuance thereof, Paul in v. 25 shows the principle that God delights to take those who are "not my people" and make them "my people," applying it to Gentiles, whom God makes his people by sovereignly grafting them into covenant relationship.
The point being made in Romans 9:25 is not reconcilation with Israel.

We see Paul's meaning of OT promises to Israel being fulfilled in the Gentiles repeated by James in
Acts 15:13-18, where James says the promise (Amos 9:11-12) to rebuild David's tent is fulfilled in God taking to himself a people from the Gentiles.

And I still don't have Scripture stating "nations" to mean "Israel."
 
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Davy

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Reconciliation of Gentiles with Isreal is not the subject of Romans 9:24-25,
the point is contrast: of the "objects of mercy," to whom God is making known the riches of his glory through the contrasting "objects of his wrath"--prepared for destruction (v. 22-23).

More than one subject is being covered in Romans 9. But there are specific verses there that are strictly about the joining of believing Gentiles into the Promises God gave to Israel. In Galatians 3, Paul made it plain that The Gospel was preached to Abraham that all NATIONS would be blessed through him...

Gal 3:7-9
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
KJV

Gal 3:29
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
KJV
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Reconciliation of Gentiles with Isreal is not the subject of Romans 9:24-25,
the point is contrast: of the "objects of mercy," to whom God is making known the riches of his glory through the contrasting "objects of his wrath"--prepared for destruction (v. 22-23).
In continuance thereof, Paul in v. 25 shows the principle that God delights to take those who are "not my people" and make them "my people," applying it to Gentiles, whom God makes his people by sovereignly grafting them into covenant relationship.
The point being made in Romans 9:25 is not reconcilation with Israel.

We see Paul's meaning of OT promises to Israel being fulfilled in the Gentiles repeated by James in
Acts 15:13-18, where James says the promise (Amos 9:11-12) to rebuild David's tent is fulfilled in God taking to himself a people from the Gentiles.

The scriptures here quoted make my case, as they pertain to Israel, not true Gentiles. Romans 9 and Amos 9 are all about Israel, not the Gentiles.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I did answer this here. As posted some time ago, the old covenant was specifically to the seed of Israel in the flesh decedents from Abraham, and also to those of the other nations that wanted to follow the God of Israel and the covenant (word of God) to Israel in the flesh. (e.g. mixed multitude *Exodus 12:28; Numbers 11:4, the stranger that is within their gate *Exodus 24:8-11; Jethro the father in law of Moses *Exodus 18, see also the example of Rahab the harlot *Joshua 2; Ruth and Naomi, Caleb *Numbers 32-12 who was a Kenizzite one of the Canaanite tribes *Genesis 15:19, Othniel who was Caleb's brother *Judges 3:9, Jael Judges 4 and Judges 5 was a Kenite of the Canaanites (Genesis 15:19), Uriah and Bathsheba the Hittite *2 Samuel 11:12 etc, etc, before the covenant of course there was Noah and his family, Melchisedek the Priest, Baalim *Numbers 22 to Numbers 24 who were all gentile believers in God. Now we are in the new covenant which is open to all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. All those who believe and follow Gods' Word in the new covenant are now Gods' Israel (see OP and supporting posts and scriptures on page 1).

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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If I may, if you mean the descendants of the various tribes of ancient Israel, then yes the church is loaded with them. It is to them that Jesus was sent only, and to them that the disciples were to go as well.
This of course all changed after the death and resurrection of Jesus. They were to go first to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and after to all nations under the new covenant *Matthew 28:19
 
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