JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

Danthemailman said:

Keep in mind folks that there are genuine Christians and there are “nominal” Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers found mixed together on various Christian forum sites. Man cannot infallibly judge everyone’s heart, but God can.

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Titus Dorn said:

Hebrews 8:6-9
But now hath He obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

For if the first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

For finding fault with them, He saith, Behold the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL and WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH:

NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; because they continued not in My covenant and regarded them not, saith the Lord.

God made a covenant which does not contain the command to keep the Sabbath day. Verse 9 is a quote from the weeping prophet Jeremiah,
Jeremiah 31:31-32
Behold the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY THAT I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO BRING THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; Which My covenant they brake although I was an husband unto them saith the Lord

There is a new covenant, not jeiwish christians nor gentile christians are commanded to keep the Sabbath,

Hebrews 8:13
In that He saith, A new covenant, He hath made the first old. Now that WHICH DECAYETH AND WAXED OLD IS READY TO VANISH AWAY.


Christian's are dead to the law of Sabbath keeping

Romans 7:1-6
Know ye not brethren,for I speak to them that know the law, how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

For the woman which hath a husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband is dead , she is LOOSED from the law of her husband.

So then if, while her husband liveth she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from the law of her husband.

Wherefore my brethren , ye also are become DEAD TO THE LAW BY THE BODY OF CHRIST; that ye should be married to another, even to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bring fruit unto God.

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto DEATH.

BUT NOW WE ARE DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, THAT BEING DEAD WHEREIN WE WERE HELD; THAT WE SHOULD SERVE IN NEWNESS OF SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE OLDNESS OF THE LETTER.

The apostle Paul taught we cannot be under two laws at the same time.

No more than a women could be married to two men at the same time.

Which law then are we now delivered?

Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for i had not know lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET.

Thou shalt not covet is in the Ten commandments. This is the law Paul has said we are delivered from.

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances(law of Moses) that WAS AGAINST US, which was contrary to us, AND TOOK IT OUT OF THE WAY, NAILING IT TO HIS CROSS.

Keeping any of the old covenant makes you guilty of it all.
The old law is bondage, slavery, Christ will profit you nothing, Galatians 5:1-5

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HARK! said:

First of all, if you are obedient to the Torah; then you are not under the judgement and curses for breaking the Torah.

The apostle Paul said no such thing about not being subject to two of YHWH's instructions. Yahshua followed all of YHWH's instructions that were applicable to him. He called his sheep to follow him. Paul said to follow him as he followed Messiah. We covered this already.

Here is what Messiah said on the matter:

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring
(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.
(CLV) Mt 5:20
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness (obedience to the Torah) should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

The law says that a bride can't be married to two men. Paul isn't inventing scripture that contradicts YHWH's words.

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Titus Dorn said:

Sir, I gave you Gods word not my opinions on this matter. Take Gods word for what it says and abandon the errors in doctrinal interpretation you have made. Believe Paul, all who try to keep the old law, Christ is of no effect for you.

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Titus Dorn said:

Sir, I gave you Gods word not my opinions on this matter. Take Gods word for what it says and abandon the errors in doctrinal interpretation you have made. Believe Paul, all who try to keep the old law, Christ is of no effect for you.

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• Romans 2:13 Not hearers of the law, but doers of the law shall be justified before God.
  
• Romans 6:15-18 We are to be servants of righteousness who obey God; obedience unto righteousness.
  
• Romans 7:25 I myself serve the law of God.
  
• Romans 10:4 Moses describes the righteousness which is of the law.

SabbathBlessings said:

So you think it’s okay now to lie, worship other gods, steal, covet etc. and this behavior is what God is looking for to save? If so, there would have been no need for God to send His son to sacrifice Himself if we are free to sin. This teaching goes against everything God and Jesus taught us. Mathew 5:17-20, Mathew 19:17, John 14:15, John 10:15, 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20, Mathew 7:21,22, Revelations 14:12, Revelations 22:14,15

Also I find it interesting you left out a main point of the New Covenant.

Jeremiah 31:33But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Colossians has already been pointed out to you is about “ordinances” the Sabbath(s) Yearly Feast days which is an ordinance in the law of Moses, not one of God’s commandments. We should be careful what we teach each other becuase according to Jesus- Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Mathew 5:9

Jesus taught us all about the Sabbath and Jesus said Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27. I prefer the teachings of Jesus and we are told to follow Him as our example.

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HARK! said:

Continued from: Paul on the Law: Galatians 4


Galatians 5 (CLV)
1 For freedom Christ frees us! Stand firm, then, and be not again enthralled with the yoke of slavery."

What is Messiah freeing us from? Is it YHWH's Law?

Where in scripture can we find that YHWH's law is slavery?

(CLV) Ja 1:25
Now he who peers into the perfect law, that of freedom, and abides, not becoming a forgetful listener, but a doer of the work, this one will be happy in his doing.

That doesn't sound like slavery.

What does Paul say about the law?

(CLV) Ro 7:12
So that the law, indeed, is holy, and the precept holy and just and good.

What might this bondage be?

Let's look at this letter in context. After all, it was written to be read as a letter, not a sound byte.

CLV) Ga 2:4
Yet, it was because of the false brethren who were smuggled in, whoa came in by the way to spy out our freedom which we have in Christ Jesus, that they shall be enslaving us-

Ahh! I see. We're back to the Pharisees, and the traditions of men.
Paul on the Law: Galatians 2

(CLV) Ga 4:3
Thus we also, when we were minors, were enslaved under the elements of the world.Paul on the Law: Galatians 4

Ah yes, and the elements of the world. That's in opposition to the Law of YHWH
The word "again" in that verse, settles it. The Galatians weren't Torah observant before Paul, so they couldn't return to the Torah, if they didn't come from it.

Clearly again, Paul did not abolish YHWH's Law.


2 Lo! I, Paul, am saying to you that if you should be circumcising, Christ will benefit you nothing." 3 Now I am attesting again to every man who is circumcising, that he is a debtor to do the whole law."

Again, in context to the Pharisees. Paul is reminding the Galatians that if you are to be saved by the law; you must keep all of the law perfectly.

4 Exempted from Christ were you who are being justified in law. You fall out of grace.

Is Paul saying that by keeping YHWH's law through faith that we fall from grace? Of course not!

(CLV) Ro 3:31
Are we, then, nullifying law through faith? May it not be coming to that! Nay, we are sustaining law.

5 For we, in spirit, are awaiting the expectation of righteousness by faith."

What is righteousness?

Definition of righteous
1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision is availing anything, nor uncircumcision, but faith, operating through love."

(CLV) Jn 14:24
He who is not loving Me, is not keeping My words. And the word which you are hearing is not Mine, but the Father's Who sends Me.


(CLV) Jn 15:10
If ever you should be keeping My precepts, you will be remaining in My love, according as I have kept the precepts of My Father and am remaining in His love.

(CLV) 1Jn 2:5
Yet whoever may be keeping His word, truly in this one the love of God is perfected. In this we know that we are in Him:

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,


(CLV) 2Jn 1:6
And this is love, that we may be walking according to His precepts. This is the precept, according as you hear from the beginning, that you may be walking in it;

7 You raced ideally! Who hinders you not to be persuaded by the truth? 8 This persuasion is not of Him Who is calling you. 9 A little leaven is leavening the whole kneading. 10 I have confidence in you in the Lord that in nothing you will be disposed otherwise. Now he who is disturbing you shall be bearing his judgment, whosoever he may be." 11 Now I, brethren, if I am still heralding circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? Consequently the snare of the cross of Christ has been nullified." 12 Would that those who are raising you to insurrection struck themselves off also! 13 For you were called for freedom, brethren, only use not the freedom for an incentive to the flesh, but through love be slaving for one another." 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in one word, in this: "You shall love your associate as yourself." 15 Now if you are biting and devouring one another, beware that you may not be consumed by one another." 16 Now I am saying, Walk in spirit, and you should under no circumstances be consummating the lust of the flesh." 17 For the flesh is lusting against the spirit, yet the spirit against the flesh. Now these are opposing one another, lest you should be doing whatever you may want."

Lawlessness

Is the Spirit of YHWH in opposition to the Law of YHWH?

Of course not.

Verse 5 just stated that in the spirit we are awaiting righteousness, that is obedience to the law.


(CLV) Ro 7:25
I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law.


18 Now, if you are led by spirit, you are not still under law."

(CLV) Ro 7:25
I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law.

Which law do you suppose you are not under, when led by the Ruach HaKodesh?

(CLV) Ezk 36:26
I will give you a new heart, And a new spirit will I bestow within you, And I will take away the heart of stone from your flesh, And I will give you a heart of flesh.

(CLV) Ezk 36:27
My spirit shall I bestow within you, And I will make it that you shall walk in My statutes and observe My ordinances, And you will obey them.

If you are of the spirit you aren't under the law; as you aren't under sin. You're obedient to the law.

This was covered Here: Paul on the Law: Galatians 4


Romans 7
14 For we are aware that the law is spiritual, yet I am fleshly, having been disposed of under Sin." 15 For what I am effecting I know not, for not what I will, this I am putting into practice, but what I am hating, this I am doing." 16 Now if what I am not willing, this I am doing, I am conceding that the law is ideal."

19 Now apparent are the works of the flesh, which are adultery, prostitution, uncleanness, wantonness, 20 idolatry, enchantment, enmities, strife, jealousies, furies, factions, dissensions, sects, 21 envies, murders, drunkennesses, revelries, and the like of these, which, I am predicting to you, according as I predicted also, that those committing such things shall not be enjoying the allotment of the kingdom of God."

Because they continued breaking YHWH's law; therefore they were under the law. They were slaves of sin. They were in the flesh.

22 Now the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 meekness, self-control: against such things there is no law." 24 Now those of Christ Jesus crucify the flesh together with its passions, and lusts." 25 If we may be living in spirit, in spirit we may be observing the elements also." 26 We may not become vainglorious, challenging one another, envying another."



Hallelu YAH!



Paul on the Law: Galatians 6

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HARK! said:

Let's back up to verse 8.

(CLV) Col 2:8
Beware that no one shall be despoiling you through philosophy and empty seduction, in accord with human tradition, in accord with the elements of the world, and not in accord with Christ,

None of what is bolded has anything to do with following Torah.

You can get a better understanding of the scripture here:

Colossians 2:16

Shaul didn't fail the Deuteronomy 13 test.

Would YHWH Send a Prophet who would Contradict Moses?

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HARK! said:

Excerpt:


12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world."

The Ephesians were (past tense) apart from Israel, having been apart from Christ.

Being in Christ is being a citizen of Israel.

13 Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ."

"Once, " again past tense.

14 For He is our Peace, Who makes both one, and razes the central wall of the barrier"

If you are one in the body of Yahshua; you are a citizen of Israel.

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law

Nullifying the LAW?!?.....

...But Yahshua said...

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens



of precepts in decrees,

Oh! Well I guess I should have read on, before jumping to conclusions.

The law of precepts, "in" decrees...

What's a decree?


Definition of decree
(Entry 1 of 2)
1 : an order usually having the force of law a judicial decree by royal decree
2a : a religious ordinance enacted by council or titular head a papal decree
Definition of DECREE

G1378 δόγμα - Strong's Greek Lexicon Number
δόγμα
that which seems to one, an opinion, dogma
G1378 δόγμα - Strong's Greek Lexicon


Definition of dogma
1a : something held as an established opinion
Definition of DOGMA

Thayer:
1) doctrine, decree, ordinance
G1378 δόγμα - Strong's Greek Lexicon

Definition of doctrine

1a : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : dogma
Definition of DOCTRINE


Oh! Well that's very much different. It's the dogmatic, man made, Pharisaic, laws of the Talmud, that Yashua rebuked, that were done away with.

Hallelu YAH!

that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;" 16 and should be reconciling both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in it." 17 And, coming, He brings the evangel of peace to you, those afar, and peace to those near, 18 for through Him we both have had access, in one spirit, to the Father." 19 Consequently, then, no longer are you guests and sojourners, but are fellow-citizens of the saints and belong to God's family,

Believers in Yahshua are Israel!

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

Paul on the Law: Ephesians 2

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