WHAT IS GOD'S GRACE FOR?

Thuycidides said:

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."

That would be physical life. To lay down our 'spiritual' life has no meaning. It's like offering blessing to someone in need, without actually doing anything to help. (James 2)

Jesus become spiritually separated from God with our sins, and then He became physically dead on the cross.

And yet being God the Son, He chose when He would physically die, but breathing out His own spirit, which is why the centurion declared Him to be the Son of God, because he knew that was not possible for normal men. We cannot 'kill ourselves' by expelling all our air willfully.

God gave Himself for a burnt offering and sacrifice which had to physically die, before forgiveness of sins.

Click to expand...

We have more than one kind of life. That is where "rightly dividing the Word of God" steps in.

Jesus did not lay down his spiritual life on the Cross. He died spiritually. The life he voluntarily laid down was that of being God. He had to do so in order to save His sheep.

Philippian 2:6-8

Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God
something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!

grace and peace.......

Thuycidides said:

To lay down our 'spiritual' life has no meaning.

Click to expand...

Really? Yet, all through the physical torture Christ uttered no sound but the second our sins hit Him He screamed "my God, my God why have you forsaken me". His spiritual agony far outweighed His physical agony.

Thuycidides said:

Jesus become spiritually separated from God with our sins, and then He became physically dead on the cross.

Click to expand...

He didn't just become separated, He was forsaken. We all are born separated from God but no-one has been forsaken, only Christ. You only need look at all the times the Lord reached out to man to see He never forsook us even though we should have been because of our sin.

Thuycidides said:

And I would say has come and still remains. The apostles declared the fullness of time has come, and we are in the last days, with many antichrists coming and going.

What remains is the 1st resurrection and the end of the time of nations on earth ruling themselves, with the return and reign of Jesus on earth.

Much great tribulation has already been here, as Paul said, we must enter the kingdom through much tribulation.

So, there will be an end of all such tribulation caused by man on earth, which will include at the end, the dragon himself no longer prince and power of the air, but raging on the earth for the last battle with the Lord.

Click to expand...

So my point was that Peter's urgency in finding a replacement to Judas, before Pentecost could happen, is correct.

Are you still disagreeing with that point, with this reply of yours?

Guojing said:

So my point was that Peter's urgency in finding a replacement to Judas, before Pentecost could happen, is correct.

Are you still disagreeing with that point, with this reply of yours?

Click to expand...

Peter did not know Pentecost was to happen as it did.... No one knew.

He was in no hurry for that reason.

Pentecost took everyone by surprise and amazement...

genez said:

Peter did not know Pentecost was to happen as it did.... No one knew.

He was in no hurry for that reason.

Pentecost took everyone by surprise and amazement...

Click to expand...

Are you aware that the cross was supposed to be Daniel's 69th week?

sawdust said:

He didn't just become separated, He was forsaken. We all are born separated from God but no-one has been forsaken, only Christ. You only need look at all the times the Lord reached out to man to see He never forsook us even though we should have been because of our sin.

Click to expand...

If God did not agree to provide the atonement of the Cross? mankind would have been thrown into God's garbage can... like with all the prehistoric life that was "no more."

If Jesus was not 'forsaken' in our place? Man might not even be here at this time.

The difference between Jesus and us? Being sinless, he could only be forsaken as long as our sins were there to pour. After no more was left to pour? Jesus being sinless, popped right back to full relationship with the Father.

In the means while.. God made sure that all men would die physically, so the number of sins would be finite. After we die we will never see the body we now have ever again. It will become a new type of body without sin...

Now... if Adam had ran to the Tree of Life and snatched its fruit and gobbled it down? Jesus would have had to remain hanging on the Cross with no end. For, Adam in his sinful body would have lived forever...

Contemplation time break time needed...

Guojing said:

Are you aware that the cross was supposed to be Daniel's 69th week?

Click to expand...

Even if that be truth?

You are acting like what.. Like they all should have instantly understood the deeper teachings of Christianity. Teachings that could not be understood till later on after much teaching.

They were all taken by surprise, and in many ways confused about what was taking place. They did not even know after he died that Jesus was to be resurrected. Mary had to tell them.

It all had to sink in slowly after Pentecost. Just like it must be taken slowly for a person who gets shocked by the unexpected powers of regeneration suddenly taking over his soul. First months usually are about sorting out the confusion of adjusting to the mystery we have entered into..

grace and peace,........

genez said:

Even if that be truth?

You are acting like what.. Like they all should have instantly understood the deeper teachings of Christianity. Teachings that could not be understood till later on after much teaching.

They were all taken by surprise, and in many ways confused about what was taking place. They did not even know after he died that Jesus was to be resurrected. Mary had to tell them.

It all had to sink in slowly after Pentecost. Just like it must be taken slowly for a person who gets shocked by the unexpected powers of regeneration suddenly taking over his soul. First months usually are about sorting out the confusion of adjusting to the mystery we have entered into..

grace and peace,........

Click to expand...

As I said earlier, what you are doing is to “anticipate revelation”

Guojing said:

As I said earlier, what you are doing is to “anticipate revelation”

Click to expand...

I thought he was expanding on this basic principle.

Proverbs 3:5-6
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.

sawdust said:

I thought he was expanding on this basic principle.

Proverbs 3:5-6
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.

Click to expand...

In acts 2, peter spoke under the inspiration of the holy spirit to declare that the day of the lord is indeed coming.

God did not think peter was wrong.

Guojing said:

In acts 2, peter spoke under the inspiration of the holy spirit to declare that the day of the lord is indeed coming.

God did not think peter was wrong.

Click to expand...

Peter had at that point received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

In Acts 1 Peter decided to draw straws before and without the baptism.

For one he could not be wrong when anointed. They other left him fallible and impulsive. God gave no command for them to pick Judas' replacement.

Guojing said:

Are you aware that the cross was supposed to be Daniel's 69th week?

Click to expand...

Tell us how that works?... What has that got to do with Peter deciding to find a way to replace Judas without God commanding him to do so.

genez said:

Tell us how that works?... What has that got to do with Peter deciding to find a way to replace Judas without God commanding him to do so.

Click to expand...

So that means the Tribulation will be coming at anytime (Acts 2:20), so for Jesus's promise to the 12 in Matthew 19:28 to be true, they had to replace Judas asap.

genez said:

Peter had at that point received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

In Acts 1 Peter decided to draw straws before and without the baptism.

For one he could not be wrong when anointed. They other left him fallible and impulsive. God gave no command for them to pick Judas' replacement.

Click to expand...

Did you read Acts 2:20?

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

Guojing said:

Did you read Acts 2:20?

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

Click to expand...

So what you're saying is, Peter knew he would be giving the sermon in Acts 2 regarding the day of the Lord while he was still in Acts 1 without the baptism of the Spirit and so therefore saw a need to replace Judas urgently. Yes, no, maybe??

sawdust said:

So what you're saying is, Peter knew he would be giving the sermon in Acts 2 regarding the day of the Lord while he was still in Acts 1 without the baptism of the Spirit and so therefore saw a need to replace Judas urgently. Yes, no, maybe??

Click to expand...

No, I am saying the Jews who grew up with the ot, knew the cross marked the end of Daniel 69th week.

Thus, You don’t need the Holy Spirit to understand that the 70th week was due anytime after the cross.

And The Holy Spirit confirmed that Daniel timetable was still correct in acts 2:20

Guojing said:

Did you read Acts 2:20?

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

Click to expand...

Peter was giving the Jews something they could become stabilized by and relate to, as to what was taking place with the Tongues phenomena. He was telling the Jews, while using the Torah for a frame of reference, that "this is something like that" which Joel spoke of.

For, it was not the actual even taking place which is reserved for the future event. It stabilized them.
Joel speaks of the Millennial kingdom that the Jews were all preoccupied about at that time.

The Church was a hidden mystery to the Jews. The Jews did know the Millennial Kingdom from the Torah. The reason for that mystery being hidden to the Jews about the church? The leadership for the Millennial kingdom is now being recruited and trained to reign with the Messiah= the church.

Obviously, not every member of the Church will qualify to reign with Christ. Those who insist upon a false narrative concerning the Scriptures will be denied such an honor.

Guojing said:

No, I am saying the Jews who grew up with the ot, knew the cross marked the end of Daniel 69th week.

Thus, You don’t need the Holy Spirit to understand that the 70th week was due anytime after the cross.

And The Holy Spirit confirmed that Daniel timetable was still correct in acts 2:20

Click to expand...

The Cross was a foreign concept to the Jews. Where do you get your stuff from?

Guojing said:

No, I am saying the Jews who grew up with the ot, knew the cross marked the end of Daniel 69th week.

Thus, You don’t need the Holy Spirit to understand that the 70th week was due anytime after the cross.

And The Holy Spirit confirmed that Daniel timetable was still correct in acts 2:20

Click to expand...

Ok I understand what you mean now but I fail to see how that justifies Peter doing something on his presumption God will act in accordance with his interpretation of scripture especially seeing as he wasn't told to do anything but wait for the promise of the Holy Spirit.

Plus as genez said above, no-one expected the Cross. As best as I can tell, through reading various studies, the Jews of Jesus' day were as divided in understanding Messianic and Last Days prophecy as we are on say the timing of the Resurrection of the Church.

What any of this has to do with the purpose of grace stills confounds me though.