Starting to doubt

Sheila Davis

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can i point out a really simple truth for you...and i am sorry but i cannot help but laugh as i write this as I am sure a number of other readers here will no doubt be doing at this moment...could you please go to your user profile page and change the part that says Faith = "BAPTIST" to what it is you really are!
Is it also false that you are divorced?
As I said YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN -THIS TIME TOO. I ASKED WHO TOLD YOU I WAS BAPTIST! YOU REPLIED I DID! GAVE ME THE LINK TO GO TO MY USER PROFILE - I WROTE IT ON MY PROFILE - I DID NOT TELL YOU. AND IF YOU ARE AN ADMINISTRATOR I PUT IT ON THE PROFILE I DID NOT TELL YOU! OF COURSE UNLESS YOU HAVE AN ALIAS CALLED CHRISTIAN FORUM. NOW YOU'RE INDIRECTLY TRYING TO CALL ME A LIAR. YOU'VE BEEN TRYING TO EMBARRASS ME THROUGH THE WHOLE CONVERSATION. NOTHING ELSE TO SAY TO YOU! WRITE WHATEVER YOU WANT I FRANKLY DON'T CARE.
 
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The Barbarian

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I will stick with the view put forward by Stephen Myer and William Craig on this...both of whom i believe do not place credibility on the adequicy of theistic evolution in explaining our origins or existence.

You were going to tell us the definition of biological evolution, so I could show you an example of it. And you were going to tell us which of Darwin's four points of evolution you think are disproven.

I'm sure everyone would like to see that. How about it?

I believe God inspired Moses to write Genesis in literal days (as the Israelites clearly believed)for good reason, it is exactly how one would expect an omnipotent and all powerful creator to bring into existence our world and ourselves

God is not obligated to meet our expectations. Why not just let Him do it His way?

4th commandment reaffirms this truth clearly to me when God says in Exodus 31 in six days God created the earth and all that is in it, but on the Seventh day he rested.

I'd be open to your evidence that repeating a figurative passage in the Bible, converts it to a literal history. What do you have?
 
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AdamjEdgar

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As I said YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN -THIS TIME TOO. I ASKED WHO TOLD YOU I WAS BAPTIST! YOU REPLIED I DID! GAVE ME THE LINK TO GO TO MY USER PROFILE - I WROTE IT ON MY PROFILE - I DID NOT TELL YOU. AND IF YOU ARE AN ADMINISTRATOR I PUT IT ON THE PROFILE I DID NOT TELL YOU! OF COURSE UNLESS YOU HAVE AN ALIAS CALLED CHRISTIAN FORUM. NOW YOU'RE INDIRECTLY TRYING TO CALL ME A LIAR. YOU'VE BEEN TRYING TO EMBARRASS ME THROUGH THE WHOLE CONVERSATION. NOTHING ELSE TO SAY TO YOU! WRITE WHATEVER YOU WANT I FRANKLY DON'T CARE.
Sheila, plucking at straws over semantics of whether one verbally tells or writes doesn't change the point...if my bringing up this is somehow offensive then I apologise.
However, you are a Baptist yes? If so, I'm am more surprised that there are Baptists who believed this and I'm genuinely interested in why that would be the case.
Again I did not choose my words carefully enough and offended you...I unreservedly apologise for that.
 
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AdamjEdgar

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You were going to tell us the definition of biological evolution, so I could show you an example of it. And you were going to tell us which of Darwin's four points of evolution you think are disproven.

I'm sure everyone would like to see that. How about it?



God is not obligated to meet our expectations. Why not just let Him do it His way?



I'd be open to your evidence that repeating a figurative passage in the Bible, converts it to a literal history. What do you have?
I simply do not agree that Darwin came from a perspective of God...I think fundamentally evolution has demonstrated over the last hundred years that it is anything but God driven.
 
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Freth

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As I said YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN -THIS TIME TOO. I ASKED WHO TOLD YOU I WAS BAPTIST! YOU REPLIED I DID! GAVE ME THE LINK TO GO TO MY USER PROFILE - I WROTE IT ON MY PROFILE - I DID NOT TELL YOU. AND IF YOU ARE AN ADMINISTRATOR I PUT IT ON THE PROFILE I DID NOT TELL YOU! OF COURSE UNLESS YOU HAVE AN ALIAS CALLED CHRISTIAN FORUM. NOW YOU'RE INDIRECTLY TRYING TO CALL ME A LIAR. YOU'VE BEEN TRYING TO EMBARRASS ME THROUGH THE WHOLE CONVERSATION. NOTHING ELSE TO SAY TO YOU! WRITE WHATEVER YOU WANT I FRANKLY DON'T CARE.

Your profile's denomination setting is shown in the side bar, on the left of your post. Everyone can see it.
 
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The Barbarian

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You were going to tell us the definition of biological evolution, so I could show you an example of it. And you were going to tell us which of Darwin's four points of evolution you think are disproven.

I'm sure everyone would like to see that. How about it?

I simply do not agree that Darwin came from a perspective of God.

Well, that's a testable belief...

There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved.
Charles Darwin, last sentence of On the Origin of Species


That's another misconception you have. And since you've declined to tell us what you think evolution is, and don't seem to even know what Darwin had to say about it, you're pretty much done here.

Unless you decide to step up and tell us about it. Your choice.
 
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AdamjEdgar

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You were going to tell us the definition of biological evolution, so I could show you an example of it. And you were going to tell us which of Darwin's four points of evolution you think are disproven.

I'm sure everyone would like to see that. How about it?



Well, that's a testable belief...

There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved.
Charles Darwin, last sentence of On the Origin of Species


That's another misconception you have. And since you've declined to tell us what you think evolution is, and don't seem to even know what Darwin had to say about it, you're pretty much done here.

Unless you decide to step up and tell us about it. Your choice.
I do not recall anything about biological evolution. The problem is, scholars tend to agree that the DNA coding issue cannot be resolved through evolution. That would first need resolving I think!
 
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The Barbarian

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I do not recall anything about biological evolution.

The problem is, you never learned anything about biological evolution. So you think it's about the big bang and how life started and God knows what else. And that's why you keep tripping over yourself here.

The problem is, scholars tend to agree that the DNA coding issue cannot be resolved through evolution.

And that assumption is because you don't know anything about it. Back in the 1800s,when it all seemed so complex, people assumed it was impossible for God to have life simply come forth from the earth; Darwin (for example) supposed that God just created the first living things.

It seemed then that things like amino acids, proteins, and nucleic acids could not form abiotically. But now we know that they can and do in the right environment. We're now finding amino acids and proteins in meteorites. Would you like to learn about that?

Your "scholars" are a bit behind the times. A lot, actually. If you were paying attention in biology class in high school, this might be a way out for you:
https://www.amazon.com/New-History-...s=a+new+history+of+life&qid=1624017934&sr=8-2

It's a pretty good summary of what we know now. And your scholars should probably read it as well.

The origin of life is not part of evolutionary theory. You see, if God had just poofed living things into existence, instead of making the Earth capable of bringing forth life naturally, evolutionary theory would work just the same.

That would first need resolving I think!

Read the book and learn. And then this won't be such a mystery for you.

And I suppose your reluctance to define evolution and critique the four points of Darwin's theory is because you don't really know anything about it. Here's quick guide to learn more:
https://www.amazon.com/Get-Grip-Evolution-David-Burnie/dp/0297827006

This one is extremely easy to comprehend, even if you weren't paying attention in biology.
 
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Derek1234

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As I said YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN -THIS TIME TOO. I ASKED WHO TOLD YOU I WAS BAPTIST! YOU REPLIED I DID! GAVE ME THE LINK TO GO TO MY USER PROFILE - I WROTE IT ON MY PROFILE - I DID NOT TELL YOU. AND IF YOU ARE AN ADMINISTRATOR I PUT IT ON THE PROFILE I DID NOT TELL YOU! OF COURSE UNLESS YOU HAVE AN ALIAS CALLED CHRISTIAN FORUM. NOW YOU'RE INDIRECTLY TRYING TO CALL ME A LIAR. YOU'VE BEEN TRYING TO EMBARRASS ME THROUGH THE WHOLE CONVERSATION. NOTHING ELSE TO SAY TO YOU! WRITE WHATEVER YOU WANT I FRANKLY DON'T CARE.
Sheila, I don't think anyone is trying to embarrass you, sincerely. As others have said, you enter some data which publicly shows on your profile. My real name isn't Derek1234, though I am a Protestant (of sorts) and married, and do come from the UK. It's fine not to enter real information, but AdamJEdgar was, I think, naturally assuming you were a Baptist and asking whether you considered your views standard for a Baptist.
 
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The Barbarian

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AdamJEdgar was, I think, naturally assuming you were a Baptist and asking whether you considered your views standard for a Baptist.

I have a good friend whose daughter I taught and who was on the same soccer club as my oldest daughter. He's a Southern Baptist, and a biologist. He has mentioned that he'll be in church, and someone will start going on about evolution and how it's wrong and "calling God a liar" and all that. He just keeps quiet to keep the peace, but I suspect there are a lot more like him who don't get caught up in that stuff.
 
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AdamjEdgar

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The problem is, you never learned anything about biological evolution. So you think it's about the big bang and how life started and God knows what else. And that's why you keep tripping over yourself here.



And that assumption is because you don't know anything about it. Back in the 1800s,when it all seemed so complex, people assumed it was impossible for God to have life simply come forth from the earth; Darwin (for example) supposed that God just created the first living things.

It seemed then that things like amino acids, proteins, and nucleic acids could not form abiotically. But now we know that they can and do in the right environment. We're now finding amino acids and proteins in meteorites. Would you like to learn about that?

Your "scholars" are a bit behind the times. A lot, actually. If you were paying attention in biology class in high school, this might be a way out for you:
https://www.amazon.com/New-History-...s=a+new+history+of+life&qid=1624017934&sr=8-2

It's a pretty good summary of what we know now. And your scholars should probably read it as well.

The origin of life is not part of evolutionary theory. You see, if God had just poofed living things into existence, instead of making the Earth capable of bringing forth life naturally, evolutionary theory would work just the same.



Read the book and learn. And then this won't be such a mystery for you.

And I suppose your reluctance to define evolution and critique the four points of Darwin's theory is because you don't really know anything about it. Here's quick guide to learn more:
https://www.amazon.com/Get-Grip-Evolution-David-Burnie/dp/0297827006

This one is extremely easy to comprehend, even if you weren't paying attention in biology.
I would suggest you do not understand Bible truths and that is a book you should read and learn.
One cannot interpret the Bible references I quoted to you about creation in an evolutionary manner. There is a good reason why very few Christians are theistic evolutionists of any kind...it really is heresy (to use an old term)
I do not bother trying to find a way to rationalise my way through a doctrine that is completely inconsistent with the Bible. The reality is, you attempt to distance evolution from the big bang...science I think hinges the two together and that in itself makes theistic evolution a very concerning pathway to follow. That is my opinion and I would urge that instead of following science as your spiritual guide, you first follow the Bible.

One of the more bizarre arguments for considering theistic evolution...
"we are losing a lot of potentially great minds to atheism because we cannot find a way to be inclusive of differing views on the "Origins of Species" (the title of Darwin's theory if memory serves)."

If that is a valid reason to embrace any non biblical doctrine, we are all lost souls and the whole bible story is nothing but just that...a story! I fundamentally reject that notion and therefore I will likewise continue to fundamentally reject evolution...it is a non Christian pathway that detracts from the essence of an Almighty God who created us, and died for our sins and is one day coming again to receive us back unto him.
 
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The Barbarian

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I would suggest you do not understand Bible truths

See above. We've already documented a number of your misconceptions about the Bible and what it says. That's quite apart from your apparently complete failure to understand what evolution is.

There is a good reason why very few Christians are theistic evolutionists of any kind

You're misled there, too. The vast majority of the world's Christians belong to denominations that accept the fact that evolution is consistent with His word. Would you like me to show you?

YE creationism is not a heresy, it's an error. And fortunately, it's not an error for which God will send you to hell. He doesn't care if you approve of the way He did creation. That's not how you will be judged. If you make an idol of your new belief, and declare that Christians must believe it, that could be a problem for your salvation; be careful not to do that.

I do not bother trying to find a way to rationalise my way through a doctrine that is completely inconsistent with the Bible.

You seem to have done exactly that. It appears that you are very close to replacing the Gospels with your new doctrines.

One of the more bizarre arguments for considering theistic evolution...
"we are losing a lot of potentially great minds to atheism because we cannot find a way to be inclusive of differing views on the "Origins of Species" (the title of Darwin's theory if memory serves)."

Ah, strawman, um? Actually, given that Darwin attributed the creation of life to God, it's not a very effective strawman. This new ideology is distracting you from the Good News of the Gospels. Set it aside, and let it be God's way.
 
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AdamjEdgar

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In Chapter 4 of his book...

Darwin concludes: "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down"

Charles Hodge argued in his 1874 critique "What is Darwinism?" that "Darwinism", defined narrowly as including rejection of design"

We know the Catholic church created a lot of confusion when...

The Vatican stated its official position in a 1950 papal encyclical, which held that evolution was not inconsistent with Catholic teaching.

I fundamentally dissagree with the Catholic view because of below:

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.3And God said, “Let there be light,”a and there was light. 4And God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.”

And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.​

Lets jump down a few verses....

31And God looked upon all that He had made, and indeed, it was very good.

And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
Unless one can find a solution to the very explicit nature of the Biblical narrative for creation, i believe Darwins theory has no place in Christianity. I do not disagree that God has provided the earth with the capability to adapt to the changing world...however, that is a far cry from what Darwin states in Chapter 4 of his book referenced above.
 
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Sheila Davis

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Sheila, I don't think anyone is trying to embarrass you, sincerely. As others have said, you enter some data which publicly shows on your profile. My real name isn't Derek1234, though I am a Protestant (of sorts) and married, and do come from the UK. It's fine not to enter real information, but AdamJEdgar was, I think, naturally assuming you were a Baptist and asking whether you considered your views standard for a Baptist.
- then his reply should have been I read your profile and not I told him - nor should he have made a comment about marital status.
 
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Sheila Davis

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Your profile's denomination setting is shown in the side bar, on the left of your post. Everyone can see it.
You people - I asked a direct question who told you - he said I did - his response should have been I read your profile and not I told him - because I didn't - he read it. And then want to question whether or not I am divorced.
 
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Sheila Davis

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I also see Baptist under your user name. If you are not a Baptist you should change it.
I didn't ask you who told you - you didn't tell me I told you. There is a difference between seeing something and being told something - as I told him I did not tell him anything - he read it. are you people can last like he said you can try to make excuses for him like you're doing two doesn't change a thing. Nor does sarcasm.
 
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AdamjEdgar

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- then his reply should have been I read your profile and not I told him - nor should he have made a comment about marital status.
Sheila, I have to ask...what exactly is your problem with someone telling and someone reading? I did not recall anyone stating "sheila told us anything"!
You are throwing a useless and quite frankly poorly thought out argument against those of us who can read your profile where you have written next to Faith "Baptist".

Either you are a Baptist or you are not a Baptist. The point is, I was surprised that a Baptist would take this view (ie theistic evolution) as a doctrine in the first place!

Your retort "who told you I was a Baptist" seems to be very very offtopic to the question posed to you concerning what you believe as a Baptist.

The simple answer, and I am quite sure that most others on this forum would agree with, would be to outline how Darwins theory fits in with your own world view? (which we believed based on your profile was Faith=Baptist).

This is an opportunity for an explanation on how theistic evolution works for you and your own world view.

We can all learn from that...isnt this important to you?

I have stated, that based on the Genesis story and Darwin's own early notes about how mankind originated, his views are heresy and opposed to said creation story! (that is my belief on this topic)
 
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coffee4u

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I didn't ask you who told you - you didn't tell me I told you. There is a difference between seeing something and being told something - as I told him I did not tell him anything - he read it. are you people can last like he said you can try to make excuses for him like you're doing two doesn't change a thing. Nor does sarcasm.

No there isn't a difference to being told something vs seeing something, because the information came from you.

The labels under our user names determine which areas we can post in - being married I can't post in singles.
Two to help others posters know something generalized about your take on religion. This helps when posting back to you. I would assume someone with Baptist under their name is a Baptist and holds to Baptist doctrine unlike someone with Atheist under their name.

Anyone can be anything online but the site does ask for us to fill these things out truthfully.
The fact you seem to be arguing your user label is rather strange. You can ask the mods to change the label if you wish too.
 
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Freth

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You people - I asked a direct question who told you - he said I did - his response should have been I read your profile and not I told him - because I didn't - he read it. And then want to question whether or not I am divorced.

Please don't be angry with me. It was apparent to me that you didn't realize it was displayed under your name, so I thought I would point it out. As to what Adam said or didn't, I'm not a part of that discussion.

God bless!
 
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