The theory of the Southern Strategy.

hislegacy

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who cares what is the Stats .. again my question to you

Do you think minorities take advantage of social SafetyNet and government handout ?

Without knowing how the stats breakdown by race, how on earth can someone make an informed comment?

Until this thread - I never gave the issue any thought at all. So I can't tell you what I think without being informed.

I grew up in an area where it didn't matter the color of your skin - you either had money or you didn't.

a 30 sec search found this:

As of July 8, 2014, the demographic breakdown of welfare recipients was 38.8 percent Caucasian, 39.8 percent African American, 15.7 percent Hispanic, 2.5 percent Asian and 3.3 percent Other. There are 12.8 million Americans on welfare, which is equivalent to 4.1 percent of the U.S. population
So, does that answer your question?

I would say that it is spread mostly between white and black people.


furthermore I never said they did or didn’t. It isn’t part of my discussion with anyone.

What's your point?
 
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mark46

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There certainly was a shift, but it wasn't a full-blown party "switch".

Both sides engage in some revisionist history on this one.

You had your Strom Thurmonds (among others) who switched parties, but then you also had some democrats who remained democrats even after the Southern Strategy.

Robert Byrd (up until 2010)
J. William Fulbright (up until 1974)
John Little McClellan (up until 1977)
John McKeithen (up until 1972)
John C. Stennis (up until 1989)
B. Everett Jordan (up until 1973)
Russell B. Long (up until 1987)


The GOP embraced the Southern Strategy as just that, a strategy...they courted former segregationists in areas where they stood to gain a lot of votes, and for the others, they were content to let them keep being democrats.

There's no doubt that they (the GOP) were pandering to racists, I elaborated on that a lot in my previous post. My objection was simply to the notion that all of the segregationists immediately switched parties.

The Democrats during those decades "tolerated" plenty of racists in their party for the sake of getting votes.

The key difference was, the Democrats (while benefiting from those votes) made the concerted effort to stop actively pandering to them...as to where the GOP started using dog whistles to pander to them.

Is the Confederate South (other than VA) loyally Republican now?
 
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hislegacy

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Is the Confederate South (other than VA) loyally Republican now?

Well yes, they left their racist past and joined the party that set the slaves free.

Bravo for them.
 
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LockeeDeck

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Well yes, they left their racist past and joined the party that set the slaves free.

Bravo for them.

It's kinda hard to say they left their racist past behind when they fly a fake version of the flag of the confederacy and fight so hard to keep confederate statues up. Then there is also all the racism.
 
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Goonie

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Still just a theory.
Your sounding desperate.

The parties changed policies with the republicans targeting the southern democrat support.

Tell me if someone's flying the confederate flag(the flag of states right to own other people) are they going to vote democrat or republican?
 
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essentialsaltes

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Still just a theory.

No, it is the consensus view of historians.

This top-down narrative of the Southern Strategy is generally believed to be the primary force that transformed Southern politics following the civil rights era. The scholarly consensus is that racial conservatism was critical in the post-Civil Rights Act realignment of the Republican and Democratic parties.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Is the Confederate South (other than VA) loyally Republican now?

No, Georgia just went blue in the last election.

At a federal level, the states tend to go red in presidential elections, but the populations of the states themselves are pretty purple...

I'm not disagreeing that republicans are pandering to racists (when it comes to national politics) I elaborated on that a great deal. I was simply refuting the notion that it was a "full blown party switch" as some have tried to portray it as.

To pretend that it was is ignoring a lot of other political issues that were hotly debated at that time.


If we apply that logic to today's political climate, there are obviously issues both sides are passionate about.

Let's say Democrats reversed their position on abortion to win over some additional southern folks, and to react to it, republicans started voicing a little more of a pro-choice message in the north and west coast try to win some additional votes to backfill the ones they were losing...

Would you expect every democrat to switch parties simply because the two parties traded positions on that one solitary issue? Obviously not, you still have democrats that care about environmental causes, gay rights, gun control, healthcare, etc... they're not all going to jump ship and become republicans simply because of a position reversal on one thing.

Some (who rank that one particular issue above all others) may do that, but it certainly wouldn't be all.

Which is why the Southern Strategy was just that, strategic. There were numerous democrats that were segregationists, and still remained on the democratic ticket (and got elected) clear through the 1980's. Republicans courted particular racists (like Strom Thurmond) based on areas where elections could be hotly contested. In areas where it was still going to solidly go democratic (with or without racist ideas) due to the popularity of working class economic policies (which didn't change), there was no effort to court those guys.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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SOUTHERN STATES VOTING DEMOCRATIC IN RECENT ELECTIONS
2000 none
2004 none
2008 VA, FL, NC
2012 VA, FL
2016 VA

1) In the last 5 elections, 10 Southern (former Confederate states) voted Republican in every election.
2) FL (2) and NC (1) have been close since 2008, and are considered swing states.
3) VA (3) moved to the Democrats column in 2008 and is now a solidly blue state.
4) The bottom line is that Republicans count on 10 Southern states, Democrats 1, and 2 are competitive.

Gauging the entire political landscape of a region on federal level elections can be a tad misleading.

People prioritize different issues and rank them differently.

The the inverse phenomenon exists in the New England region. Those states almost always go blue (without fail) in presidential elections, but many vote for republican governors.

Obama (D) an Charlie Baker (R) both won the state of Massachusetts (for President and Governor respectively) right around the same time, both with over 65% of the vote.

Issue prioritization (and people in general) don't neatly fit into one of two boxes...people are messy.
 
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LockeeDeck

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Still just a theory.

We get that you discount the party switch explanation for the current political leanings of the parties but again, racist people lean Republican. There is no dismissing that, it's a clear and present fact and racists proudly confirm it.

How did that come about if not by Nixon's "southern strategy"?
 
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mark46

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No, Georgia just went blue in the last election.

Yes, Trump got folks so mad that his folks stayed home and the Dems showed up. In any case, GA is at best competitive. We'll know a lot in their 2022 Senate race.
 
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mark46

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Gauging the entire political landscape of a region on federal level elections can be a tad misleading.

People prioritize different issues and rank them differently.

The the inverse phenomenon exists in the New England region. Those states almost always go blue (without fail) in presidential elections, but many vote for republican governors.

Obama (D) an Charlie Baker (R) both won the state of Massachusetts (for President and Governor respectively) right around the same time, both with over 65% of the vote.

Issue prioritization (and people in general) don't neatly fit into one of two boxes...people are messy.

Make believe MA is Republican or competitive if you wish. MA is heavily Democratic, even if they elect Republican governors on occasion.
 
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RDKirk

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This stuff about politicians switching parties is a red herring anyway. Why would you particularly want your former political enemies to come over and join you if you can just steal their voters and replace them with politicians from your own party who you actually trust and who largely follow the same policy positions as you?

The Republicans didn't become the old Democratic party, they largely kept their economic positions but just won over Southern working class voters via the racist messaging and positions. Which is why you now have this quite bizarre dichotomy between a party of big business and the rich being voting for by large numbers of very poor people.

The flip-flop of parties and their platforms began in 1912 when Teddy Roosevelt pulled the Progressives out of the Republican Party to form the Progressive Party.

From its inception, the Republican Party had been an odd partnership of northern Big Industry and progressive moralists. Their initial goals were parallel, but for different purposes. Both wanted slavery abolished--one group for moral reasons, the other group for economic reasons.

After they achieved that goal with the Civil War, the Progressives of the GOP immediately turned the rest of their progressive agenda: Temperance, prison reform, racial and immigrant reconciliation, women's rights, environmental conservation, and labor reform. Teddy Roosevelt--who had been aggressively progressive from the very beginning of his political career--was their foremost evangelist who found the presidency an excellent pulpit.

But the moral Progressives of the GOP parted company with Big Industry in the GOP over environmental conservation and labor reform. Teddy Roosevelt pulled the Progressives out in 1912, leaving the Republican Party filled with libertarian-minded businessmen who were unable to win a national election. And the tiny new Progressive Party couldn't win an election either. That split allowed the conservative Democratic Party to begin winning.

Over the next few decades, Progressives in the north began registering Democrat as Progressive economic goals became clearly more anti-business. Progressives in the south tended to remain Party of Lincoln, where they were dealing with a different sort of antagonism to their social goals.

But when it comes to a "Southern Strategy," that was not invented by Nixon, but by Barry Goldwater. Goldwater opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act, but on Libertarian grounds, not segregationist grounds. In fact, Goldwater was not personally segregationist. He had integrated his own family business, and he had been a staunch supporter and ally of integration of the federal government, particularly in the DoD. But he believed the decision to integrate or remain segregated should be made by individual business owners, not government at any level (and he was morally opposed to southern state and local laws that mandated segregation).

Yet...Goldwater wanted to win, and just like moralists and Big Industry became allies against slavery in the Civil War, Goldwater thought that a Republican alliance with segregationists on the Civil Rights issue might help him win the presidency.

There were some things that slowed the process. One was the rise to the national political level of southern favorite son George Wallace. It was Wallace alone who kept Nixon from sweeping the south in 1968, although Nixon did win all southern states (well, every state except Massachusetts, as well as DC) in 1972 . Southern Favorite son Carter also slowed the transition.

And another thing slowed the transition: Diehard Dixiecrats (voters and politicians) who consistently voted and legislated segregationist, but would rather die than actually register into the Party of Lincoln. Eventually by the 1990s, those diehard Dixiecrats...finally died. Their children registered Republican.
 
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Pommer

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From its inception, the Republican Party had been an odd partnership of northern Big Industry and progressive moralists. Their initial goals were parallel, but for different purposes. Both wanted slavery abolished--one group for moral reasons, the other group for economic reasons.
Nicely crafted point.
Thank you.
 
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Vylo

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Got any reasons why the Republican Party, founded as an anti slavery movement would give up every standard they were fighting for to become like the party they fought against?

How is it logical that they struggle for over 100 years to realize the end of slavery and then civil rights - when they finally accomplish this century long effort - they decide to become what they have opposed for over a century.

How does that make sense

I mean, they gave up almost everything they stood for all over again with Trump, so history just seems to be repeating itself.
 
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KCfromNC

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From the link:


The ten states with the highest total federal funding are:

  1. California ($43.61 billion)
  2. Texas ($26.90 billion)
  3. Florida ($23.77 billion)
  4. New York ($22.06 billion)
  5. Virginia ($17.68 billion)
  6. Pennsylvania ($15.58 billion)
  7. Illinois ($13.18 billion)
  8. Ohio ($12.57 billion)
  9. North Carolina ($11.31 billion)
  10. Michigan ($10.84 billion)

  11. now what does this have to do with the myth?
Hey look, a list of the most populous states, pretty close to in order too. Not sure what that proves, though.
 
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