Black Theologian Voddie T. Baucham Exposes ‘Demonic Ideology’ Behind CRT, BLM, Antiracism

BBAS 64

Contributor
Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
9,850
1,708
58
New England
✟484,381.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Snip.... "Baucham dissects over several chapters how CRT and the social justice movement twist traditional religious categories into a means by which to assert power. Characterizing the battles facing the U.S. as fundamentally spiritual, he deftly traces such philosophies to their origin in what he describes as the “demonic ideology” of Karl Marx, Antonio Gramsci, and their neo-Marxist successors in the Frankfurt School."

‘This Is About Power’: Black Theologian Voddie T. Baucham Exposes ‘Demonic Ideology’ Behind CRT, BLM, Antiracism
 

rturner76

Domine non-sum dignus
Supporter
May 10, 2011
10,484
3,582
Twin Cities
✟725,021.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
So he's black so what? That makes his opinion more legit? From the OP it sounds like the guy wants a theocracy.

Anybody who has studied Marx knows that Communism cannot work without a benevolent leader. When do you think a benevolent leader would have any success in politics? In politics, it's pretty much mandatory to be a lying opportunist which does not line up with the values of a benevolent leader. So communism pretty much cannot be successful if you go by Marx himself (except in China where communism is flourishing).

PS Why would a theologian be an expert on CRT? Shouldn't we be looking at sociologists, historians, etc?
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,016
25,180
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,904.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
So he's black so what? That makes his opinion more legit? From the OP it sounds like the guy wants a theocracy.

Anybody who has studied Marx knows that Communism cannot work without a benevolent leader. When do you think a benevolent leader would have any success in politics? In politics, it's pretty much mandatory to be a lying opportunist which does not line up with the values of a benevolent leader. So communism pretty much cannot be successful if you go by Marx himself (except in China where communism is flourishing).

PS Why would a theologian be an expert on CRT? Shouldn't we be looking at sociologists, historians, etc?
He has his degree in sociology. ;)
 
Upvote 0

Eftsoon

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2021
769
491
33
London
✟55,992.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
He offers some valid criticisms, but the problem is that he refuses to see any value whatsoever. Of course, such an analysis is flawed. I have the greatest respect for Dr Baucham, but disagree strenuously that CRT BLM etc are evil all the way down. There is a lot of wrong/harmful teaching there, but there is plenty of truth. The subtle message I get from critics of CRT is that state-promoted racism is a thing of the past, and thus no movement is required. This is patently wrong.
 
Upvote 0

Eftsoon

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2021
769
491
33
London
✟55,992.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
He has his degree in sociology. ;)
The man's credentials are like a can of alphabet soup. That notwithstanding, his critique really needs more moderation. Let's no let intellectual stature affect our judgement.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,016
25,180
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,904.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
He offers some valid criticisms, but the problem is that he refuses to see any value whatsoever. Of course, such an analysis is flawed. I have the greatest respect for Dr Baucham, but disagree strenuously that CRT BLM etc are evil all the way down. There is a lot of wrong/harmful teaching there, but there is plenty of truth. The subtle message I get from critics of CRT is that state-promoted racism is a thing of the past, and thus no movement is required. This is patently wrong.
His problem with CRT is that it’s anti-gospel.
 
Upvote 0

grasping the after wind

That's grasping after the wind
Jan 18, 2010
19,458
6,354
Clarence Center NY USA
✟237,637.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
So he's black so what? That makes his opinion more legit? From the OP it sounds like the guy wants a theocracy.

Anybody who has studied Marx knows that Communism cannot work without a benevolent leader. When do you think a benevolent leader would have any success in politics? In politics, it's pretty much mandatory to be a lying opportunist which does not line up with the values of a benevolent leader. So communism pretty much cannot be successful if you go by Marx himself (except in China where communism is flourishing).

PS Why would a theologian be an expert on CRT? Shouldn't we be looking at sociologists, historians, etc?

Communism flourishing in China? I don't think so. China gave up on Communism decades ago. Not that they ever were truly Communist to begin with. No such state as a Communist State has ever existed. Nor ever will. According to Marx that would be a contradiction terms. China has been and continues to be a totalitarian socialistic oligarchy, now mostly fascist in nature. China's Communist Party controlled government has become more fascistic over the decades by removing some government ownership, though not control, and concentrating more on jingoistic nationalism and capitalistic growth than on the plight of the international proletariat. I wouldn't be looking for their totalitarian fascistic nationalistic government to simply naturally wither away any time soon.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,016
25,180
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,904.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Certainly it is, much like most secular schools of thought.Why single out CRT specifically?
Because of its current prevalence in society and in the church.
 
Upvote 0

Eftsoon

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2021
769
491
33
London
✟55,992.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Because of its current prevalence in society and in the church.

This is the normative list from Delgado and Stepanic. You might disagree with some of this, but it's certainly not an insidious poison. For many people of colour this stuff is kind of obvious:

(1) Race is socially constructed, not biologically natural.

(2) Racism in the United States is normal, not aberrational: it is the common, ordinary experience of most people of colour.

(3) Owing to what critical race theorists call “interest convergence” or “material determinism,” legal advances (or setbacks) for people of colour tend to serve the interests of dominant white groups. Thus, the racial hierarchy that characterizes American society may be unaffected or even reinforced by ostensible improvements in the legal status of oppressed or exploited people.

(4) Members of minority groups periodically undergo “differential racialization,” or the attribution to them of varying sets of negative stereotypes, again depending on the needs or interests of whites.

(5) According to the thesis of “intersectionality” or “antiessentialism,” no individual can be adequately identified by membership in a single group. An African American person, for example, may also identify as a woman, a feminist, a Christian, and so on. Finally,

(6) the “voice of colour” thesis holds that people of colour are uniquely qualified to speak on behalf of other members of their group (or groups) regarding the forms and effects of racism. This consensus has led to the growth of the “legal story telling” movement, which argues that the self-expressed views of victims of racism and other forms of oppression provide essential insight into the nature of the legal system.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,016
25,180
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,904.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
This is the normative list from Delgado and Stepanic. You might disagree with some of this, but it's certainly not an insidious poison. For many people of colour this stuff is kind of obvious:

(1) Race is socially constructed, not biologically natural.

(2) Racism in the United States is normal, not aberrational: it is the common, ordinary experience of most people of colour.

(3) Owing to what critical race theorists call “interest convergence” or “material determinism,” legal advances (or setbacks) for people of colour tend to serve the interests of dominant white groups. Thus, the racial hierarchy that characterizes American society may be unaffected or even reinforced by ostensible improvements in the legal status of oppressed or exploited people.

(4) Members of minority groups periodically undergo “differential racialization,” or the attribution to them of varying sets of negative stereotypes, again depending on the needs or interests of whites.

(5) According to the thesis of “intersectionality” or “antiessentialism,” no individual can be adequately identified by membership in a single group. An African American person, for example, may also identify as a woman, a feminist, a Christian, and so on. Finally,

(6) the “voice of colour” thesis holds that people of colour are uniquely qualified to speak on behalf of other members of their group (or groups) regarding the forms and effects of racism. This consensus has led to the growth of the “legal story telling” movement, which argues that the self-expressed views of victims of racism and other forms of oppression provide essential insight into the nature of the legal system.
I agree with the first one.
 
Upvote 0

Eftsoon

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2021
769
491
33
London
✟55,992.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I agree with the first one.

What about 5? 5 is pretty uncontroversial. All it's saying is that a Christian African American with autism has 3 areas where they can be discriminated against. They can experience religious, racial, and ableist discrimination. I disagree that these should be identities or need define an individual, but it's still a useful way to look at discrimination. People exist at the intersection of these things. A female black woman has to handle sexism + racism, which makes her more vulnerable than a black man. There are confounding factors sure, but it's a useful tool for counsellors and psychologists.

CRT can obviously provide us with a way to look at race relations critically, but it should never be taught as a doctrine or system of belief. That is dangerous. It has to be approached very very critically.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: RDKirk
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,016
25,180
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,904.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
What about 5? 5 is pretty uncontroversial. All it's saying is that a Christian African American with autism has 3 areas where they can be discriminated against. They can experience religious, racial, and ableist discrimination. I disagree that these should be identities or need define an individual, but it's still a useful way to look at discrimination. People exist at the intersection of these things. A female black woman has to handle sexism + racism, which makes her more vulnerable than a black man. There are confounding factors sure, but it's a useful tool for counsellors and psychologists.

CRT can obviously provide us with a way to look at race relations critically, but it should never be taught as a doctrine or system of belief. That is dangerous. It has to be approached very very critically.
CRT looks at people as groups, not individuals. It’s partially. Partiality is a sin.
 
Upvote 0

durangodawood

Dis Member
Aug 28, 2007
23,412
15,559
Colorado
✟428,018.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
CRT looks at people as groups, not individuals. It’s partially. Partiality is a sin.
So does the Bible, which is reasonable because people are groups..... and individuals.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,016
25,180
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,904.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,016
25,180
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,904.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
So it's 'demonic' to be against racism. The KKK lynching black people is just doing God's work, and MLK jr. was a servant of Satan?

That's a hot take if I ever heard one.
Where was that said?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums