History of Abortion in the U.S.A.

98cwitr

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Human tissue and a human being are two different things.

Agreed, but a completely functional organism made of human tissue is called a human being. Like Belk said, the sticking point for the pro-abortionists is "personhood" and then words really start to matter because it's now a philosophical question and not a biological one.
 
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Belk

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Agreed, but a completely functional organism made of human tissue is called a human being. Like Belk said, the sticking point for the pro-abortionists is "personhood" and then words really start to matter because it's now a philosophical question and not a biological one.

Pejorative statements that do not reflect your oppositions views do nothing to help your arguments.
 
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Aldebaran

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OK. You let us know when you convince a majority of Americans that a single cell is a person.

Now you're resorting to a strawman argument. An unborn baby with discernible body with arms and legs and a beating heart is not a single cell.
 
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Skreeper

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You criticize people for using 'emotionally charged language' but then go ahead and say that a fetus is worthless.

Yea sorry I don't see it that way. I say that completely without any emotion: a fetus without any form of consciousness has nothing I would value. I feel completely neutral about it. That's why I don't cry when it gets aborted as much as I don't cry when a fertilized egg has to be disposed of in a fertility clinic.
 
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Aldebaran

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Yea sorry I don't see it that way. I say that completely without any emotion: a fetus without any form of consciousness has nothing I would value. I feel completely neutral about it. That's why I don't cry when it gets aborted as much as I don't cry when a fertilized egg has to be disposed of in a fertility clinic.

Have you ever seen the ultrasound videos of the "fetus" recoiling away from the abortion instruments as the abortion is being done? That indicates a consciousness and the feeling of pain. Even animals are given more consideration when such things are seen when medical procedures are done on them.
 
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98cwitr

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Calling people "pro-abortionists" is pejorative is mine.

Prochoice seems to be a misnomer, as there are choices that don't involve abortion (in that case I'm "pro-choice" in that I support the choices of abstinence and adoption apart from raising your own child). Too, in the same way "prolife" is also a misnomer for those who are anti-abortion but support the death penalty and the use of deadly force.
 
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Skreeper

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Have you ever seen the ultrasound videos of the "fetus" recoiling away from the abortion instruments as the abortion is being done? That indicates a consciousness and the feeling of pain. Even animals are given more consideration when such things are seen when medical procedures are done on them.

It's generally agreed that the capacity for consciousness develops between the 24th and 28th week.
I don't have any moral consideration until then since the fetus doesn't experience anything without a consciousness.

Also I have seen those videos where the fetus supposedly "recoils away". I think you are reading too much into it to be honest.
 
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Aldebaran

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It's generally agreed that the capacity for consciousness develops between the 24th and 28th week.
I don't have any moral consideration until then since the fetus doesn't experience anything without a consciousness.

Also I have seen those videos where the fetus supposedly "recoils away". I think you are reading too much into it to be honest.

Nazis thought the same way about the Jews. It allowed to not have "any moral consideration" as they went about their business.

"When the Nazis described Jews as Untermenschen, or subhumans, they didn't mean it metaphorically, says Smith. "They didn't mean they were like subhumans. They meant they were literally subhuman."
'Less Than Human': The Psychology Of Cruelty

Learn your country's history.
 
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Skreeper

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Nazis thought the same way about the Jews. It allowed to not have "any moral consideration" as they went about their business.

"When the Nazis described Jews as Untermenschen, or subhumans, they didn't mean it metaphorically, says Smith. "They didn't mean they were like subhumans. They meant they were literally subhuman."
'Less Than Human': The Psychology Of Cruelty

Learn your country's history.

Difference being that Jews (as in born human beings) have a consciousness. Your analogy is not fitting.
 
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Aldebaran

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Difference being that Jews (as in born human beings) have a consciousness. Your analogy is not fitting.

Same type of thinking and reasoning involved.
 
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Aldebaran

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Except not. But good on you for bringing up Nazi Germany. You guys really love talking about that time period it seems.

It gets brought up so often because the justifications for killing back then seem to be back in vogue among atheists who have such little regard for life today. If people don't like their thinking to be be compared to that of the Nazis, then they should stop thinking like Nazis.
 
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Skreeper

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It gets brought up so often because the justifications for killing back then seem to be back in vogue among atheists who have such little regard for life today. If people don't like their thinking to be be compared to that of the Nazis, then they should stop thinking like Nazis.

Joe told me something different about that.
 
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Belk

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Now you're resorting to a strawman argument. An unborn baby with discernible body with arms and legs and a beating heart is not a single cell.
At conception it is a single cell. If you are claiming personhood from birth that is exactly what you are claiming.
 
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Belk

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Prochoice seems to be a misnomer, as there are choices that don't involve abortion (in that case I'm "pro-choice" in that I support the choices of abstinence and adoption apart from raising your own child). Too, in the same way "prolife" is also a misnomer for those who are anti-abortion but support the death penalty and the use of deadly force.
Spare me your rationalizations for attempting to assign a position they do not hold.
 
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Aldebaran

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At conception it is a single cell. If you are claiming personhood from birth that is exactly what you are claiming.

That's usually not when abortions are performed.
 
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Spare me your rationalizations for attempting to assign a position they do not hold.

Are you claiming that pro-choice people don't call themselves that to indicate they choose abortion over birth?
 
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