The theory of the Southern Strategy.

mark46 · Jun 16, 2021

ThatRobGuy said:
There certainly was a shift, but it wasn't a full-blown party "switch".

Both sides engage in some revisionist history on this one.

You had your Strom Thurmonds (among others) who switched parties, but then you also had some democrats who remained democrats even after the Southern Strategy.

Robert Byrd (up until 2010)
J. William Fulbright (up until 1974)
John Little McClellan (up until 1977)
John McKeithen (up until 1972)
John C. Stennis (up until 1989)
B. Everett Jordan (up until 1973)
Russell B. Long (up until 1987)

The GOP embraced the Southern Strategy as just that, a strategy...they courted former segregationists in areas where they stood to gain a lot of votes, and for the others, they were content to let them keep being democrats.

There's no doubt that they (the GOP) were pandering to racists, I elaborated on that a lot in my previous post. My objection was simply to the notion that all of the segregationists immediately switched parties.

The Democrats during those decades "tolerated" plenty of racists in their party for the sake of getting votes.

The key difference was, the Democrats (while benefiting from those votes) made the concerted effort to stop actively pandering to them...as to where the GOP started using dog whistles to pander to them.

I agree that some Democratic leaders remained Democrats for awhile, but the change in the voters in even the first 10 years after the civil rights acts were past was indeed dramatic. Even among leaders, the change (as you can see from your list) was complete with the election of Reagan.

But you are correct. It is a bit difficult to see the massive change. The Nixon, Bush and Reagan landslides obscured the trend. Southern Democrats Carter and Clinton were able to win some key Southern states.

mark46 · Jun 16, 2021

SOUTHERN STATES VOTING DEMOCRATIC IN RECENT ELECTIONS
2000 none
2004 none
2008 VA, FL, NC
2012 VA, FL
2016 VA

1) In the last 5 elections, 10 Southern (former Confederate states) voted Republican in every election.
2) FL (2) and NC (1) have been close since 2008, and are considered swing states.
3) VA (3) moved to the Democrats column in 2008 and is now a solidly blue state.
4) The bottom line is that Republicans count on 10 Southern states, Democrats 1, and 2 are competitive.

Oompa Loompa · Jun 16, 2021

Belk said:
So can you explain to us why there was a large shift of African Americans who started to vote for the democrats?

Because after LBJ's war on poverty, the Democratic party found it to be more effective to enslave people ecomically through the welfare system and entitlements than enslave them with chains. Just my opinion.

Belk · Jun 17, 2021

hislegacy said:
Got any reasons why the Republican Party, founded as an anti slavery movement would give up every standard they were fighting for to become like the party they fought against?

How is it logical that they struggle for over 100 years to realize the end of slavery and then civil rights - when they finally accomplish this century long effort - they decide to become what they have opposed for over a century.

How does that make sense

So that is a "No"? You are not able to explain why African Americans suddenly swung the majority of their support to the Democrats?

Belk · Jun 17, 2021

BobRyan said:
President Johnson arranged that

In what fashion?

Belk · Jun 17, 2021

Oompa Loompa said:
Because after LBJ's war on poverty, the Democratic party found it to be more effective to enslave people ecomically through the welfare system and entitlements than enslave them with chains. Just my opinion.

How does that work exactly? I don't understand how your claims of economic enslavement result in as shift in party support.

Kentonio · Jun 17, 2021

Oompa Loompa said:
Because after LBJ's war on poverty, the Democratic party found it to be more effective to enslave people ecomically through the welfare system and entitlements than enslave them with chains. Just my opinion.

Sure, because leaving people unable to keep a roof over their heads and food in their kids stomachs is obviously true freedom..

Kentonio · Jun 17, 2021

This stuff about politicians switching parties is a red herring anyway. Why would you particularly want your former political enemies to come over and join you if you can just steal their voters and replace them with politicians from your own party who you actually trust and who largely follow the same policy positions as you?

The Republicans didn't become the old Democratic party, they largely kept their economic positions but just won over Southern working class voters via the racist messaging and positions. Which is why you now have this quite bizarre dichotomy between a party of big business and the rich being voting for by large numbers of very poor people.

98cwitr · Jun 17, 2021

Kentonio said:
Sure, because leaving people unable to keep a roof over their heads and food in their kids stomachs is obviously true freedom..

If only there was a way to feed people and help with housing costs that didn't involve government intervention that in result maintains and reinforces systemic poverty. LBJ created programs that destroyed families (render fathers obsolete in place of government programs) and ensured that not only did minorities vote blue, but they would be encouraged to remain poor. Sounds fairly racist AND power hungry to me. We have LBJ using a racial slur while talking about how he would have them "voting Democratic for the next 200 years"

So it's not that the Democratic party of the 1960s all of a sudden stopped being racist and championed civil rights and truly stood on moral high ground, but instead exhibited a true flavor of political zeal for the sake of opportunism.

Oompa Loompa · Jun 17, 2021

98cwitr said:
If only there was a way to feed people and help with housing costs that didn't involve government intervention that in result maintains and reinforces systemic poverty. LBJ created programs that destroyed families (render fathers obsolete in place of government programs) and ensured that not only did minorities vote blue, but they would be encouraged to remain poor. Sounds fairly racist AND power hungry to me. We have LBJ using a racial slur while talking about how he would have them "voting Democratic for the next 200 years"

So it's not that the Democratic party of the 1960s all of a sudden stopped being racist and championed civil rights and truly stood on moral high ground, but instead exhibited a true flavor of political zeal for the sake of opportunism.

"I'll have those n-word(s) voting Democratic for 200 years." President B. Lyndon Johnson

Oompa Loompa · Jun 17, 2021

Kentonio said:
Sure, because leaving people unable to keep a roof over their heads and food in their kids stomachs is obviously true freedom..

And you forgot to mention what happens when they begin to make too much money to receive entitlement.

hislegacy · Jun 17, 2021

98cwitr said:
So it's not that the Democratic party of the 1960s all of a sudden stopped being racist and championed civil rights and truly stood on moral high ground, but instead exhibited a true flavor of political zeal for the sake of opportunism.

QFT -

Tiberius Lee · Jun 17, 2021

98cwitr said:
If only there was a way to feed people and help with housing costs that didn't involve government intervention that in result maintains and reinforces systemic poverty. LBJ created programs that destroyed families (render fathers obsolete in place of government programs) and ensured that not only did minorities vote blue, but they would be encouraged to remain poor. Sounds fairly racist AND power hungry to me. We have LBJ using a racial slur while talking about how he would have them "voting Democratic for the next 200 years"

So it's not that the Democratic party of the 1960s all of a sudden stopped being racist and championed civil rights and truly stood on moral high ground, but instead exhibited a true flavor of political zeal for the sake of opportunism.

This is what southern republican thinks about minorities – African Americans, native Americans and Hispanic. They are all taking handout from government, and having kids out of wedlock, ( as the write says "render fathers obsolete") and live in poverty.

This is one of the most racist post I have seen in CF and surprisingly from a moderator.

98cwitr · Jun 17, 2021

Tiberius Lee said:
This is what southern republican thinks about minorities – African Americans, native Americans and Hispanic. They are all taking handout from government, and having kids out of wedlock, ( as the write says "render fathers obsolete") and live in poverty.

This is one of the most racist post I have seen in CF and surprisingly from a moderator.

Not my words nor position, LBJ's. I don't possess the bigotry of low expectations. The data supports the effects of his policies though, as you see single motherhood (across racial lines) skyrocket in the early 1970s, but the largest spike was indeed in the black community, yes.

Tiberius Lee · Jun 17, 2021

98cwitr said:
Not my words nor position, LBJ's. I don't possess the bigotry of low expectations. The data supports the effects of his policies though, as you see single motherhood (across racial lines) skyrocket in the early 1970s, but the largest spike was indeed in the black community, yes.

If your post #29 is the “most racist post” , I assume this post is “2nd most racist post” in CF?

hislegacy · Jun 17, 2021

Tiberius Lee said:
If your post #29 is the “most racist post” , I assume this post is “2nd most racist post” in CF?

??? Racist towards LBJ - the subject of the post???

Or was it pointing out the truth of the results of his policies?

Kentonio · Jun 17, 2021

Tiberius Lee said:
This is one of the most racist post I have seen in CF and surprisingly from a moderator.

Sadly I don't think it even makes the top 100.

Kentonio · Jun 17, 2021

98cwitr said:
If only there was a way to feed people and help with housing costs that didn't involve government intervention that in result maintains and reinforces systemic poverty. LBJ created programs that destroyed families (render fathers obsolete in place of government programs) and ensured that not only did minorities vote blue, but they would be encouraged to remain poor.

Now here's something we can actually work with! So according to you LBJ kept the poor in poverty. Now lets take a glance at that inconvenient thing known as actual evidence..

Oh gosh, so it appears that in the period during and following LBJ's administration, poverty actually reduced substantially. Would you care to revisit your previous claim?

mark46 · Jun 17, 2021

Kentonio said:
Now here's something we can actually work with! So according to you LBJ kept the poor in poverty. Now lets take a glance at that inconvenient thing known as actual evidence..

Oh gosh, so it appears that in the period during and following LBJ's administration, poverty actually reduced substantially. Would you care to revisit your previous claim?

You expect that facts will make a difference in political thinking against social programs?

The reduced numbers by the time of the mid-terms should be dramatic. The stimulus package specifically addresses child poverty.

Kentonio · Jun 17, 2021

mark46 said:
You expect that facts will make a difference in political thinking against social programs?

Not really, it never has before.

The theory of the Southern Strategy.

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