Common misunderstandings regarding the Gifts of the Spirit

topher694 said:

Jesus sending out the 70

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How does Jesus sending out the 70 prove all have the same gifts?

topher694 said:

God is consistently gifted. The Gifts are His and His power. We all have the same Holy Spirit living in us, so the same Gifts are available

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Do we receive these gifts when we are born again or when we are baptised in the holy spirit.

Are the gifts available because He is living in us or because we have been baptised in the Holy Spirit.

Personally I don't think the Gifts were given until Pentecost and they received His indwelling presence before that.

Carl Emerson said:

Yes God is the same - that does not mean He always does the same thing. Scriptural support that we move in OT gifts please.

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OK that statement is kind of easy. You would be hard pressed if you looked at specific passages, as well as their specific Lexical root word meanings in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek to make that kind of a differentiation. The same goes with God's nature which doesn't change per scripture, the only thing that changes is the nature of the Covenant.

The only real thing you can point to that is really different between the Two covenants on gifts, hypothetically speaking is the role of the Hebrew Cohen, priest, that offered up blood sacrifices etc. and make that into a "Ministry Gift" like Ephesians 4. Nobody I know speaks about it that way, even though I guess you could call if some kind of ministry gift. But regular "supernatural" kinds of gifts seem to be in play. And I would say are not just equal to the OT at least in theory (Of what they should be) because we have a better covenant than the people of the OT.

- as a side note I would also add (come to think of it) we don't see the Gift of Tongues and Interpretation in the OT that I can remember, so maybe add that to the list. But I see that being more about what God was trying to do for that time etc. (God was mostly working to establish Israel since it would be a future light to the Gentiles)


Hebrew 8

6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises. 7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.

topher694 said:

Not only is this completely wrong, but - and I can't stress this enough - this is a extremely dangerous idea to adopt.

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But you're not going to explain how and why?

MMXX said:

But you're not going to explain how and why?

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I can explain why via Eastern Christian theology. There is a Fundamental difference between God's nature and that of Humanities. God empowers Christians by "his energies" but only the members of the Trinity share in his "essence".

So in other words God may give a person some kind of Charism ability like prophesy, healing etc. but when we get that we do not become part of the Godhead. We remain still remain created beings, not part of the uncreated Divinity. And the same goes with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.... we may be empowered by Him but there is no Apotheosis of becoming Divine or part of the Godhead.

There is of course a theosis of being "Conformed to the Divine Image" Philippians 3:12-14 Romans 8:29
But that is something different and a different topic.

topher694 said:

The fall of Satan is a good place to start.

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That's cryptic. I was seeking clarification.

Pavel Mosko said:

I can explain why via Eastern Christian theology. There is a Fundamental difference between God's nature and that of Humanities. God empowers Christians by "his energies" but only the members of the Trinity share in his "essence".

So in other words God may give a person some kind of Charism ability like prophesy, healing etc. but when we get that we do not become part of the Godhead. We remain still remain created beings, not part of the uncreated Divinity. And the same goes with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.... we may be empowered by Him but there is no Apotheosis of becoming Divine or part of the Godhead.

There is of course a theosis of being "Conformed to the Divine Image" Philippians 3:12-14 Romans 8:29
But that is something different and a different topic.

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I think that's pretty much what I was conveying. Because of the fact that we are human God equips within our human limitations. He may equip us with the ability to prophesy, but but even the most gifted prophet is a very long ways from being able to see what's to come the way God can. And also some people have greater limitations than others. As I recall since Moses was "slow of speech" God appointed his brother Arron to speak in Moses' place.

I know about theosis.

topher694 said:

Are you actually open to change in this area?

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I still don't know what you're talking about.

topher694 said:

I went back and read it again. I misread what you posted. I thought you said God gives us godlike powers, you were saying he doesn’t... my bad. I first read it late at night.

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I had the feeling that might be the case. Happens to all of us.

MMXX said:

Within our ability. If God endowed us with His abilities that superceded our limitations, we would have literal godlike power.

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when is the last time someone step out to do something they didn’t think they were qualified to do and God blessed.

topher694 said:

I went back and read it again. I misread what you posted. I thought you said God gives us godlike powers, you were saying he doesn’t... my bad. I first read it late at night.

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Your not alone, I actually read his post that way too!

Unqualified said:

when is the last time someone step out to do something they didn’t think they were qualified to do and God blessed.

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I'm sure there's been many times someone thought they couldn't do something and God showed them that they can.

But I think also there are gifts of the Holy Spirit that aren't, or might not seem to be, as dynamic as others. Such as understanding, love, joy, peace, patience, encouragement, mercy, serving, helps and the like. I think stepping out would probably be more related to pastoring, teaching, evangelizing, prophesying, healing, miracles and the like.

This I think coincides with us being members of the Body of Christ, all having different functions. Some of which might seem more important than others.

I think also God uses us in ways we may not be fully aware of. Like in the film It's a Wonderful Life, where the man didn't realize how much good he had done and the impact he had concerning the welfare of others.

Pavel Mosko said:

Your not alone, I actually read his post that way too!

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So did I... !!!

topher694 said:

The Gifts are living in us because the Holy Spirit is living in us, that happens when we are saved.

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This is theory being stated as fact with no biblical support.

topher694 said:

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is us giving Him permission to use the gifts through us, that's when they become available.

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Before Pentecost they waited for empowerment. That is when they received the gifts, as the Holy Spirit came upon them. Just as Jesus received the Holy Spirit on Him at baptism. Otherwise the biblical statement that the Spirit distributes the gifts as He wills makes no sense - there would be no choice to make.

topher694 said:

See here we go again, you say "forgive me", but then follow it up by undermining me in a way that is completely unfounded.

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Really? The forum is a place to put forward ideas and see how they stand up against the Truth of Scripture. Else is simply opinion. A servant will never feel undermined, he just does his job. Denominational or movement theology is not God's measure otherwise there would be agreement between the 'big names' which there isn't.

topher694 said:

There is biblical backing for all of it and very large groups that have adopted these ideas for a long time

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Folks reading this are waiting for that biblical backing.

On this forum there is a wealth of wisdom and serious biblical scholarship available - by all means throw ideas into the melting pot.

We cant just accept the theology of Christian movements without question.

Carl Emerson said:

So did I... !!!

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