Help: Questions Regarding Lordship Salvation

npw11

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Hello, I have several questions regarding Lordship Salvation. Jesus laid out the terms of discipleship in Luke 14:25-33. In order to be a disciple of Jesus (i.e. a true Christian - yes, I believe in Lordship Salvation), these are the conditions (source):
(a) Love Jesus so greatly to the point that our love for our family members and our own life looks like hatred.
(b) Be willing to bear reproach for Christ's sake, and also to deny ourselves of selfish desires.
(c) Emotionally let go of all that we have, and possibly, physically as well (i.e. let go in real life).

My questions are the following:

1. Does this mean that we are all on-and-off disciples since no Christian can perfectly obey the terms of discipleship at all times? I know that this may seem like a silly question, but I can't seem to reconcile in my mind how I can still continuously be a disciple of Jesus if at any one point in my life I fail to, say, love Jesus much more than my family members (notice that this is the condition of being a disciple: "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate ..., he cannot be My disciple.").

For Questions 2 to 4 (source):
A friend of John Piper (from Desiring God) once sent Piper a message of serious concern for his affirming review of John MacArthur's book, The Gospel According to Jesus. Piper's friend wrote:
"Near the age of fifteen I accepted Christ as my Savior. As I look back on my life, I can see He had powerful influence during my late teen years and early twenties. In my late twenties I began to be aware of the concept of Christ as Lord. As I investigated that concept and struggled with it, I realized that for Christ to be Lord, I had to submit everything to Him. In my early thirties I did just that. The concept of ‘lordship salvation’ that you support would mean that had I died at age twenty-two, that is, before Christ was Lord, I would not have gone to Heaven."​
To this, Piper replied in a letter (published here) by saying:
"You know, Bill (not his real name), I think Jesus was your Lord before that later act of submission. I think he was your Lord the night you were converted and since then your experience has been one of more and more yieldedness to his sovereign rights as Lord over your life. And I don’t think that you have bowed to his lordship consistently since that time you ‘made him Lord’. You are not fully yielded now or you would be sinless. But he is still your Lord now. And you were not fully yielded then, but he was your Lord then."​

2. Does a person need to fulfill all the conditions of being a disciple (as laid out in (a), (b), and (c)) before receiving the Holy Spirit if he/she is told upfront of the cost of discipleship after hearing the gospel - unlike Bill (and me), who discovered the cost of discipleship at a later time?

3. If the answer to the second question is a no, then what are the conditions for a person who has just heard the gospel to receive the Holy Spirit (and thus be able to understand and interpret Scripture, etc.)?

4. If the answer to the second question is a yes, how is it fair that people like Bill (and me) got the chance to taste God's goodness before fully submitting to His lordship, whereas the new Christians who are told upfront of the cost of discipleship after hearing the gospel, do not? Or were me and Bill simply deceived in the first place?

5. How does your answer for the second question relate to the process of sanctification?

This issue has been really bothering me for a couple of weeks now. I would really appreciate it if I can get insight into this issue. Thank you, and God bless! :)
 

Guojing

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Hello, I have several questions regarding Lordship Salvation. Jesus laid out the terms of discipleship in Luke 14:25-33. In order to be a disciple of Jesus (i.e. a true Christian - yes, I believe in Lordship Salvation), these are the conditions (source):
(a) Love Jesus so greatly to the point that our love for our family members and our own life looks like hatred.
(b) Be willing to bear reproach for Christ's sake, and also to deny ourselves of selfish desires.
(c) Emotionally let go of all that we have, and possibly, physically as well (i.e. let go in real life).

My questions are the following:

1. Does this mean that we are all on-and-off disciples since no Christian can perfectly obey the terms of discipleship at all times? I know that this may seem like a silly question, but I can't seem to reconcile in my mind how I can still continuously be a disciple of Jesus if at any one point in my life I fail to, say, love Jesus much more than my family members (notice that this is the condition of being a disciple: "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate ..., he cannot be My disciple.").

For Questions 2 to 4 (source):
A friend of John Piper (from Desiring God) once sent Piper a message of serious concern for his affirming review of John MacArthur's book, The Gospel According to Jesus. Piper's friend wrote:
"Near the age of fifteen I accepted Christ as my Savior. As I look back on my life, I can see He had powerful influence during my late teen years and early twenties. In my late twenties I began to be aware of the concept of Christ as Lord. As I investigated that concept and struggled with it, I realized that for Christ to be Lord, I had to submit everything to Him. In my early thirties I did just that. The concept of ‘lordship salvation’ that you support would mean that had I died at age twenty-two, that is, before Christ was Lord, I would not have gone to Heaven."​
To this, Piper replied in a letter (published here) by saying:
"You know, Bill (not his real name), I think Jesus was your Lord before that later act of submission. I think he was your Lord the night you were converted and since then your experience has been one of more and more yieldedness to his sovereign rights as Lord over your life. And I don’t think that you have bowed to his lordship consistently since that time you ‘made him Lord’. You are not fully yielded now or you would be sinless. But he is still your Lord now. And you were not fully yielded then, but he was your Lord then."​

2. Does a person need to fulfill all the conditions of being a disciple (as laid out in (a), (b), and (c)) before receiving the Holy Spirit if he/she is told upfront of the cost of discipleship after hearing the gospel - unlike Bill (and me), who discovered the cost of discipleship at a later time?

3. If the answer to the second question is a no, then what are the conditions for a person who has just heard the gospel to receive the Holy Spirit (and thus be able to understand and interpret Scripture, etc.)?

4. If the answer to the second question is a yes, how is it fair that people like Bill (and me) got the chance to taste God's goodness before fully submitting to His lordship, whereas the new Christians who are told upfront of the cost of discipleship after hearing the gospel, do not? Or were me and Bill simply deceived in the first place?

5. How does your answer for the second question relate to the process of sanctification?

This issue has been really bothering me for a couple of weeks now. I would really appreciate it if I can get insight into this issue. Thank you, and God bless! :)

Are you aware that Jesus, in the 4 gospels, was only sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel (Matthew 15:24)?
 
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HTacianas

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Hello, I have several questions regarding Lordship Salvation. Jesus laid out the terms of discipleship in Luke 14:25-33. In order to be a disciple of Jesus (i.e. a true Christian - yes, I believe in Lordship Salvation), these are the conditions (source):
(a) Love Jesus so greatly to the point that our love for our family members and our own life looks like hatred.
(b) Be willing to bear reproach for Christ's sake, and also to deny ourselves of selfish desires.
(c) Emotionally let go of all that we have, and possibly, physically as well (i.e. let go in real life).

My questions are the following:

1. Does this mean that we are all on-and-off disciples since no Christian can perfectly obey the terms of discipleship at all times? I know that this may seem like a silly question, but I can't seem to reconcile in my mind how I can still continuously be a disciple of Jesus if at any one point in my life I fail to, say, love Jesus much more than my family members (notice that this is the condition of being a disciple: "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate ..., he cannot be My disciple.").

For Questions 2 to 4 (source):
A friend of John Piper (from Desiring God) once sent Piper a message of serious concern for his affirming review of John MacArthur's book, The Gospel According to Jesus. Piper's friend wrote:
"Near the age of fifteen I accepted Christ as my Savior. As I look back on my life, I can see He had powerful influence during my late teen years and early twenties. In my late twenties I began to be aware of the concept of Christ as Lord. As I investigated that concept and struggled with it, I realized that for Christ to be Lord, I had to submit everything to Him. In my early thirties I did just that. The concept of ‘lordship salvation’ that you support would mean that had I died at age twenty-two, that is, before Christ was Lord, I would not have gone to Heaven."​
To this, Piper replied in a letter (published here) by saying:
"You know, Bill (not his real name), I think Jesus was your Lord before that later act of submission. I think he was your Lord the night you were converted and since then your experience has been one of more and more yieldedness to his sovereign rights as Lord over your life. And I don’t think that you have bowed to his lordship consistently since that time you ‘made him Lord’. You are not fully yielded now or you would be sinless. But he is still your Lord now. And you were not fully yielded then, but he was your Lord then."​

2. Does a person need to fulfill all the conditions of being a disciple (as laid out in (a), (b), and (c)) before receiving the Holy Spirit if he/she is told upfront of the cost of discipleship after hearing the gospel - unlike Bill (and me), who discovered the cost of discipleship at a later time?

3. If the answer to the second question is a no, then what are the conditions for a person who has just heard the gospel to receive the Holy Spirit (and thus be able to understand and interpret Scripture, etc.)?

4. If the answer to the second question is a yes, how is it fair that people like Bill (and me) got the chance to taste God's goodness before fully submitting to His lordship, whereas the new Christians who are told upfront of the cost of discipleship after hearing the gospel, do not? Or were me and Bill simply deceived in the first place?

5. How does your answer for the second question relate to the process of sanctification?

This issue has been really bothering me for a couple of weeks now. I would really appreciate it if I can get insight into this issue. Thank you, and God bless! :)

By way of example, Jesus told his disciples that they could not follow him unless they hated their families. Why would he say that? It is an example of hyperbole used to prepare his disciples for what they were going to face from their families if they followed him.

The earliest Jewish converts to Christianity were disowned by their families and "put out of the synagogues" for their beliefs. Even today if an orthodox Jew converts to Christianity their family disowns them and treats them as if they had died. With that in mind, let's forget the notion that we have to hate our families. So in the end your questions are somewhat moot.

It has always been the teaching of Christianity that a convert is to repent of their sins, become baptized for the forgiveness of their previous sins, abstain from sin, and participate in the sacramental life of the Church. In the end, after we have done all of that, we will be judged based on our conduct in this life. You should conduct yourself as if you are going to be judged.

All of these other things, "lordship salvation" vs. "whatever else there is" are not things you should concern yourself with. They are only modern notions.
 
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anna ~ grace

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Just trust in Christ, and follow Him. You’ve trusted. Now you’re following. You won’t and can’t follow Him perfectly, but He knows that.

You *will* grow in your love for Him. It will be a journey. Both the faith and the following part are necessary, and while you did believe once, you also continue to trust in Him as you follow Him. Lordship Salvation has good intentions, but it over thinks things. A lot. It can get nuanced, and sticky.

You have trusted Him, and that’s good. Now, keep trusting Him and relying on Him, and do your best to live for Him. He’ll help you with that part.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Several thoughts come to mind:

You seem to lay too much weight on passage of time, instead of on cause-and-effect.

The Spirit of God begins your knowledge of Christ, and love for Christ. The terms of discipleship are meaningless apart from Christ. You are not meant to understand them before regeneration.

When you understand them, your decisions concerning them are of no consequence apart from Christ. You may already have found yourself thanking God for every small step, instead of congratulating yourself. There's nothing wrong with that.

Growing in Christ is like salvation. Look up 'monergism'. It applies throughout the whole life of the believer --not just to salvation. It is almost as if we are along for the ride, no matter how involved we are emotionally and intellectually. I like to say, "he lets me watch."

Our Christian life is God's work. Our devotion --no matter if our eyes bleed from effort-- is defined by God, not us. We don't drive this boat.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Hello, I have several questions regarding Lordship Salvation. Jesus laid out the terms of discipleship in Luke 14:25-33. In order to be a disciple of Jesus (i.e. a true Christian - yes, I believe in Lordship Salvation), these are the conditions (source):
(a) Love Jesus so greatly to the point that our love for our family members and our own life looks like hatred.
(b) Be willing to bear reproach for Christ's sake, and also to deny ourselves of selfish desires.
(c) Emotionally let go of all that we have, and possibly, physically as well (i.e. let go in real life).

My questions are the following:

1. Does this mean that we are all on-and-off disciples since no Christian can perfectly obey the terms of discipleship at all times? I know that this may seem like a silly question, but I can't seem to reconcile in my mind how I can still continuously be a disciple of Jesus if at any one point in my life I fail to, say, love Jesus much more than my family members (notice that this is the condition of being a disciple: "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate ..., he cannot be My disciple.").

For Questions 2 to 4 (source):
A friend of John Piper (from Desiring God) once sent Piper a message of serious concern for his affirming review of John MacArthur's book, The Gospel According to Jesus. Piper's friend wrote:
"Near the age of fifteen I accepted Christ as my Savior. As I look back on my life, I can see He had powerful influence during my late teen years and early twenties. In my late twenties I began to be aware of the concept of Christ as Lord. As I investigated that concept and struggled with it, I realized that for Christ to be Lord, I had to submit everything to Him. In my early thirties I did just that. The concept of ‘lordship salvation’ that you support would mean that had I died at age twenty-two, that is, before Christ was Lord, I would not have gone to Heaven."​
To this, Piper replied in a letter (published here) by saying:
"You know, Bill (not his real name), I think Jesus was your Lord before that later act of submission. I think he was your Lord the night you were converted and since then your experience has been one of more and more yieldedness to his sovereign rights as Lord over your life. And I don’t think that you have bowed to his lordship consistently since that time you ‘made him Lord’. You are not fully yielded now or you would be sinless. But he is still your Lord now. And you were not fully yielded then, but he was your Lord then."​

2. Does a person need to fulfill all the conditions of being a disciple (as laid out in (a), (b), and (c)) before receiving the Holy Spirit if he/she is told upfront of the cost of discipleship after hearing the gospel - unlike Bill (and me), who discovered the cost of discipleship at a later time?

3. If the answer to the second question is a no, then what are the conditions for a person who has just heard the gospel to receive the Holy Spirit (and thus be able to understand and interpret Scripture, etc.)?

4. If the answer to the second question is a yes, how is it fair that people like Bill (and me) got the chance to taste God's goodness before fully submitting to His lordship, whereas the new Christians who are told upfront of the cost of discipleship after hearing the gospel, do not? Or were me and Bill simply deceived in the first place?

5. How does your answer for the second question relate to the process of sanctification?

This issue has been really bothering me for a couple of weeks now. I would really appreciate it if I can get insight into this issue. Thank you, and God bless! :)
You seem to think your Christian life is a path laid before you to follow. What will you do when you realize the path has morphed before your very eyes? God is making you into that member of the Body of Christ he had in mind for heaven --not so much for this life. Your success as a disciple is not the point of Christianity.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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2. Does a person need to fulfill all the conditions of being a disciple (as laid out in (a), (b), and (c)) before receiving the Holy Spirit if he/she is told upfront of the cost of discipleship after hearing the gospel - unlike Bill (and me), who discovered the cost of discipleship at a later time?


Absolutely not to these various requirements.

Matthew 19

13 Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them.

14 Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” 15 When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there.

 
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Unqualified

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Youre taking that hate too literally. But as in Jacob and Esau, God favored Jacob more, both we’re blessed. He wants you to love your family but love God more. Let him be the focus of your life, teach your family his ways. Witness for Him, follow Him, do what pleases Him.
 
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aiki

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1. Does this mean that we are all on-and-off disciples since no Christian can perfectly obey the terms of discipleship at all times?

We aren't just disciples; we are also adopted children (Romans 8:15-16), joint-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17), seated with Christ in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6), temples of God (1 Corinthians 6:19-20), saints and priests unto God (1 Peter 2:9; 1 Corinthians 1:2), and so on. In Christ, we are all of these things, made "new creatures" in him, given a new spiritual nature in the Person of the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5-8; Romans 8:9-11). We are disciples of Christ among many other things. Don't get so focused on the disciple aspect of your life in Christ that you forget you are much more than just a disciple and so come to rest your entire relationship to God upon this single aspect.

Your discipleship depends upon Christ, not upon you. That is, a disciple of Christ is not merely one who follows him - his teachings and example - wholeheartedly, but is a spiritually-regenerated person, given new life through the indwelling Holy Spirit. In its nascent stage, being a disciple of Jesus has more to do with possessing a new, spiritual nature, a new, spiritual life, than with acting in radical self-sacrifice for his sake. The former must exist first in order for the latter to occur; one must be before one can do. It's very easy to get this turned around and think that one must do as a disciple in order to be one.

2. Does a person need to fulfill all the conditions of being a disciple (as laid out in (a), (b), and (c)) before receiving the Holy Spirit if he/she is told upfront of the cost of discipleship after hearing the gospel - unlike Bill (and me), who discovered the cost of discipleship at a later time?

No. One's relationship with God is a progressive thing, deepening and expanding over time. An apple tree can't bear apples unless it is first an apple tree. When the tree is just sprouting up, small and fragile, it can't bear the fruit it will when it has set down deep roots, and grown up into a fully-matured apple tree. If the ground the apple tree is in lacks nutrients, if the ground is chronically dry and hard, the tree may not develop well and produce only small, bitter fruit. So, too, the Christian believer, the born-again disciple of Jesus. Ideally, the spiritual growth of every believer occurs in "rich, well-watered soil," producing steady, healthy growth and eventual bearing of fruit. But the life of most Christians is not ideal; there are often all sorts of hindrances and impediments to spiritual growth and fruitfulness: bad teaching, deeply-ingrained and stubborn sinful habits of thought and deed, damaging influence of false brethren and teachers, etc. But just as a small, weak, fruitless apple tree is still an apple tree, so, too, the spiritually small, weak and fruitless disciple of Christ (ie. a born-again believer) is still a disciple of Christ. There is no hope of a tree producing apples if it is not first, by nature, an apple tree and there is, likewise, no hope of a person bearing good spiritual fruit unless s/he is first a born-again child of God. As I said, being must come before doing.

3. If the answer to the second question is a no, then what are the conditions for a person who has just heard the gospel to receive the Holy Spirit (and thus be able to understand and interpret Scripture, etc.)?

One receives the Holy Spirit by trusting in Christ as one's Saviour and Lord and is thereby born-again. (Romans 10:9-10; Ephesians 2:8-9; 1 John 4:13; Titus 3:5). But being filled with the Spirit happens only as one lives in conscious, constant surrender to his will and way. (Romans 6:13; Romans 12:1; James 4:7-10; 1 Peter 5:6; Micah 6:8) As Paul indicated in his letter to the Corinthians, it is possible to be a temple of God, indwelt by the Spirit, but be living out from under His control as a carnal "babe in Christ" (1 Corinthians 3:1), petty, fractious and sinful.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Your discipleship depends upon Christ, not upon you. That is, a disciple of Christ is not merely one who follows him - his teachings and example - wholeheartedly, but is a spiritually-regenerated person, given new life through the indwelling Holy Spirit. In its nascent stage, being a disciple of Jesus has more to do with possessing a new, spiritual nature, a new, spiritual life, than with acting in radical self-sacrifice for his sake. The former must exist first in order for the latter to occur; one must be before one can do. It's very easy to get this turned around and think that one must do as a disciple in order to be one.
Well put, this...
 
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Ceallaigh

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Be willing

That's pretty much Lordship Salvation in a nutshell. I had a hard time completely understanding LS. And still scratch my head over complicated explanations that seem contradictory. But really the bottom like is you're willing and wanting Jesus to be your Lord and you recognize His way is better than your way. It comes down to attitude. You're not supposed to have a ho-hum yeah whatever attitude towards salvation.
 
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GallagherM

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All a person really has to do is believe in their heart that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead, and by through belief/faith/trust/having confidence in God.

Now; A person can either decide to follow and read scriptures and learn and grow in knowing the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father and allow the spirit inside of the believer to be fed or not; though there may some people out there who believe but are going through extreme motions with their fleshly body; but inside really hunger after the word of God though their flesh is to powerful to be overcome because of being spiritually weak.

These are a few of my thoughts of when it comes down to have having salvation.

May these scriptures help in finding some answers.

Romans 15:4 For whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

Isaiah 12:2 Surely God is my salvation;
I will trust and not be afraid.
The Lord, the Lord himself, is my strength and my defense;
he has become my salvation.”

Romans 15:1 Now we who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those without strength and not just please ourselves.

Matthew 6:33 But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

1 Cor 1:30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

Romans 3: 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;

25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;

26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

1 John 5:
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

5 Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.

7 For there are three that testify:

8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son.

10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.

11 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

12 He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
 
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Jeffwhosoever

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Excellent points by everyone. Faith grows stronger through USE. Faith begets more faith. Its not the complexity that causes people to stumble, because it is obvious from creation that God exists. Most of the time it boils down to pure pride, and not willing to bow to a higher being, despite being created by the Lord Jesus Christ who then died to pay for our sins as only HE could do.

A great book on this is by Mr. Lawson called "Absolutely Sure"
 
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Hello, I have several questions regarding Lordship Salvation. Jesus laid out the terms of discipleship in Luke 14:25-33. In order to be a disciple of Jesus (i.e. a true Christian - yes, I believe in Lordship Salvation), these are the conditions (source):
(a) Love Jesus so greatly to the point that our love for our family members and our own life looks like hatred.
(b) Be willing to bear reproach for Christ's sake, and also to deny ourselves of selfish desires.
(c) Emotionally let go of all that we have, and possibly, physically as well (i.e. let go in real life).

My questions are the following:

1. Does this mean that we are all on-and-off disciples since no Christian can perfectly obey the terms of discipleship at all times? I know that this may seem like a silly question, but I can't seem to reconcile in my mind how I can still continuously be a disciple of Jesus if at any one point in my life I fail to, say, love Jesus much more than my family members (notice that this is the condition of being a disciple: "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate ..., he cannot be My disciple.").

For Questions 2 to 4 (source):
A friend of John Piper (from Desiring God) once sent Piper a message of serious concern for his affirming review of John MacArthur's book, The Gospel According to Jesus. Piper's friend wrote:
"Near the age of fifteen I accepted Christ as my Savior. As I look back on my life, I can see He had powerful influence during my late teen years and early twenties. In my late twenties I began to be aware of the concept of Christ as Lord. As I investigated that concept and struggled with it, I realized that for Christ to be Lord, I had to submit everything to Him. In my early thirties I did just that. The concept of ‘lordship salvation’ that you support would mean that had I died at age twenty-two, that is, before Christ was Lord, I would not have gone to Heaven."​
To this, Piper replied in a letter (published here) by saying:
"You know, Bill (not his real name), I think Jesus was your Lord before that later act of submission. I think he was your Lord the night you were converted and since then your experience has been one of more and more yieldedness to his sovereign rights as Lord over your life. And I don’t think that you have bowed to his lordship consistently since that time you ‘made him Lord’. You are not fully yielded now or you would be sinless. But he is still your Lord now. And you were not fully yielded then, but he was your Lord then."​

2. Does a person need to fulfill all the conditions of being a disciple (as laid out in (a), (b), and (c)) before receiving the Holy Spirit if he/she is told upfront of the cost of discipleship after hearing the gospel - unlike Bill (and me), who discovered the cost of discipleship at a later time?

3. If the answer to the second question is a no, then what are the conditions for a person who has just heard the gospel to receive the Holy Spirit (and thus be able to understand and interpret Scripture, etc.)?

4. If the answer to the second question is a yes, how is it fair that people like Bill (and me) got the chance to taste God's goodness before fully submitting to His lordship, whereas the new Christians who are told upfront of the cost of discipleship after hearing the gospel, do not? Or were me and Bill simply deceived in the first place?

5. How does your answer for the second question relate to the process of sanctification?

This issue has been really bothering me for a couple of weeks now. I would really appreciate it if I can get insight into this issue. Thank you, and God bless! :)
Dear ones,
Yes, we have heard:

“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. -Luke 14:26

Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. -Luke 14:27

When we kept silent or ignore what our Lord have said. Do you think that make us right?

Or do we just say we are Follower of Christ not His disciples? Do that make us right before Jesus when eventually we meet Him?

For we have also heard in the bible :

It is the glory of God to conceal things, but the glory of kings is to search things out. -Proverbs 25:2

For Jesus Christ, Son of God, have spoken to us and conceal THIS,

He must speak to us who search what He means by what He have said.

Is Jesus concerned about us hating our own father and mother? It cannot be!
Jesus would not contradict with God’s commandments to revere our parents.

As Jesus have spoken Himself:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. -Matthew 5:17

What did the Law say ? This is what we have heard:
"Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you. -Exodus 20:12

So we who are united in Christ fulfill by honoring our father and mother, not hating them.

As apostle John who are very close with our Lord said:

Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. -1 John 4:11

Jesus are not telling us that it is right to hate brothers and sisters!

For Jesus have strongly spoken:

But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment;
whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council;
and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire. -Matthew 5:22

Does Jesus talk only of His disciples when He first come to earth? No !!!

As it is written:

Now before the Feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that his hour had come to depart out of this world to the Father, HAVING LOVED HIS OWN WHO WERE IN THE WORLD, He loved them to the end. -John 13:1

Yes, we were once in the world but we have accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord, Savior and also Teacher !

For Jesus have said :

You call me Teacher and Lord, and you are right, for so I am. -John 13:13

How do we understand what Jesus have spoken:

“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate wife and children,.... he cannot be My disciple. -Luke 14:26

As we have also known what Jesus have spoken:

And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. -Matthew 10:36

Does it mean right to hate your own wives and children and make them their enemies? No !!! Why for Jesus have also spoken:

But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, -Matthew 5:44
so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven.-Matthew 5:45

Then what does Jesus mean :

“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple. -Luke 14:26

Likewise, Jesus has also spoken:

Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. -Matthew 10:37

What Jesus is strongly concerned those who come to Him who LOVE THEMSELVES OR OTHERS MORE THAN HIM is not worthy of Him.

It is THIS “SELF LOVE” that cause much sinning !

It is that those who have this
SELF LOVE is that hinder many to come to Jesus and cannot become His disciples!!!

It is this “SELF LOVE” that make many unworthy of Jesus.

Then what it takes to be worthy of Jesus?
Let us first try to understand when Jesus have said:

Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. -Luke 14:27

Why Jesus is so concerned about us bearing the cross and come after Him?

Why Jesus is so concerned about us becoming His disciples?

Likewise, Jesus have also spoken:

And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not WORTHY of ME. -Matthew 10:38

Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. -Matthew 10:39

Why by not taking the cross that we are unworthy of Jesus?

Why by just following and not taking the cross that mean we are unworthy of Jesus?

Why Jesus is so concerned that we lose our life for His sake ?

Jesus is so SERIOUS about THIS!!!

Have we not noticed and take heed ? How do we face Him when He comes the second time to earth?

Remember the Lord’s Prayer that He taught us:

and forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us." -Luke 11:4

Taking the cross Jesus speak is about bearing the sins that others have done to us ; just like Jesus bore our sins:

He Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By His wounds you have been healed. -1 Peter 2:24

When we bore the cross, we bore the sins of others in our body on the tree, just like Jesus.

How are we able to bear this cross ?
That is why Jesus tell us to come after Him:

But I will sing of Your strength; I will sing aloud of Your steadfast love in the morning. For you have been to me a fortress and a refuge in the day of my distress. -Psalms 59:16

We need to acknowledge God is our strength by singing and praising His steadfast love everyday and trusting that God is our fortress and a refuge in the day of our distress.

When we bear the cross and follow Jesus, we come to be worthy of Him.

When other hurt us, offend us, trespass against us, sinned against us ; when we are suffering for what is right, we suffer for Christ’s sake.

That is what Jesus means by losing our life for His sake; when we lose our life for His sake, we find this ABUNDANT life - life that is rooted and grounded in Christ’s love.

This NEW LIFE that is worthy of Christ’s love for eternity.

That is why the church is reminded:

Hear, O daughter ( the church), and consider, and incline your ear: forget your people and your father's house, -Psalms 45:10

and the King ( Jesus Christ) will desire your beauty ( beauty of holiness ). Since He is your lord, bow to Him. -Psalms 45:11

That is why apostle Paul have said:

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. -Romans 8:18

That is why David, the son of Jesse, who run after the heart of God have said:

Because Your steadfast love is better than life, my lips will praise You. -Psalms 63:3

When Jesus come the second time, may He find us that have put off SELF LOVE and to be renewed in the spirit of our minds and put on the NEW LIFE of LOVE IN CHRIST , which created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness. -Ephesians 4:21-24

Let us look forward to the day when it is announced:

"Hallelujah!
For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns. -Revelation 19:6

Let us rejoice and exult and give Him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and His Bride has made herself ready; -Revelation 19:7

Hallelujah
Amen
 
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Hello, I have several questions regarding Lordship Salvation. Jesus laid out the terms of discipleship in Luke 14:25-33. In order to be a disciple of Jesus (i.e. a true Christian - yes, I believe in Lordship Salvation), these are the conditions (source):
(a) Love Jesus so greatly to the point that our love for our family members and our own life looks like hatred.
(b) Be willing to bear reproach for Christ's sake, and also to deny ourselves of selfish desires.
(c) Emotionally let go of all that we have, and possibly, physically as well (i.e. let go in real life).

A Christian is a disciple of Lord Jesus. That is the faith of the Gospel.

Acts 11:26 (WEB) 26 The disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

To me, that means we conduct our lives in the world by God's Word, which means to live holy lives onto God, following Lord Jesus into a life of righteousness and love.

Marriage is acceptable, but God and His Word governs how you conduct your life in marriage.

Loving your family is acceptable, but God and His Word governs how you relate to your family.

And so forth.

We do not obey God's will to earn salvation, rather, when we repent and commit our lives to Lord Jesus by faith, we are now His Disciples, following Him. That is the New Life of Salvation by which the Spirit dwells in us guiding our faith to victory.

My questions are the following:

1. Does this mean that we are all on-and-off disciples since no Christian can perfectly obey the terms of discipleship at all times? I know that this may seem like a silly question, but I can't seem to reconcile in my mind how I can still continuously be a disciple of Jesus if at any one point in my life I fail to, say, love Jesus much more than my family members (notice that this is the condition of being a disciple: "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate ..., he cannot be My disciple.").

Luke 9:62 (WEB) 62 But Jesus said to him, “No one, having put his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for God’s Kingdom.”

Matthew 6:24 (WEB) 24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Mammon.

Mammon” is a term used to imply idolizing, holding great value, in anything for the purpose of catering to our fleshly desires.

Hebrews 12:14-18 (WEB)
14 Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord, 15 looking carefully lest there be any man who falls short of the grace of God, lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and many be defiled by it, 16 lest there be any sexually immoral person, or profane person, like Esau, who sold his birthright for one meal. 17 For you know that even when he afterward desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for a change of mind though he sought it diligently with tears.

Esau sold his birthright as firstborn for a bowl of stew. How much more value is Eternal Life as a son of God in His Kingdom? So faith is sanctifying ourselves to God.

Revelation 3:15-16 (WEB) 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or hot. 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out of my mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, and have gotten riches, and have need of nothing;’ and do not know that you are the wretched one, miserable, poor, blind, and naked.

So, when we repent and believe, we have now sanctified ourselves to God, and we are abiding in Lord Jesus as a branch abides on a vine feeding from the Spirit who gives us life. That is what Baptism represents.

Matthew 28:19-20 (WEB) 19 Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

John 15:8-10 (WEB) 8 “In this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; and so you will be my disciples. 9 Even as the Father has loved me, I also have loved you. Remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and remain in his love.

Revelation 3:21 (WEB) 21 He who overcomes, I will give to him to sit down with me on my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father on his throne.

For instance, the rich man who came to Lord Jesus (Luke 18:18-25) believed in Jesus, and desired the eternal life that Lord Jesus offered, but he idolized his wealth, and so was not fit for God’s Kingdom.

You cannot claim faith in Lord Jesus, or claim you are growing in the faith, while you are still following after any of the things of this world. Sanctification is to be separate onto God from idolizing anything in this world. That is the faith we mature in.

For Questions 2 to 4 (source):
A friend of John Piper (from Desiring God) once sent Piper a message of serious concern for his affirming review of John MacArthur's book, The Gospel According to Jesus. Piper's friend wrote:
"Near the age of fifteen I accepted Christ as my Savior. As I look back on my life, I can see He had powerful influence during my late teen years and early twenties. In my late twenties I began to be aware of the concept of Christ as Lord. As I investigated that concept and struggled with it, I realized that for Christ to be Lord, I had to submit everything to Him. In my early thirties I did just that. The concept of ‘lordship salvation’ that you support would mean that had I died at age twenty-two, that is, before Christ was Lord, I would not have gone to Heaven."​
To this, Piper replied in a letter (published here) by saying:
"You know, Bill (not his real name), I think Jesus was your Lord before that later act of submission. I think he was your Lord the night you were converted and since then your experience has been one of more and more yieldedness to his sovereign rights as Lord over your life. And I don’t think that you have bowed to his lordship consistently since that time you ‘made him Lord’. You are not fully yielded now or you would be sinless. But he is still your Lord now. And you were not fully yielded then, but he was your Lord then."​
John Piper appears to be wrong according to God's Word.

Many do believe in Jesus, but there comes a point in each of our lives where we have to count the cost of being a Christian, which is a Gospel Faith in Lord Jesus.

Luke 14:27-35
27 Whoever doesn’t bear his own cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. 28 For which of you, desiring to build a tower, doesn’t first sit down and count the cost, to see if he has enough to complete it? .... 33 So therefore whoever of you who doesn’t renounce all that he has, he cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 13:44-46 (WEB)
44 “Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found, and hid. In his joy, he goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field.
45 “Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who is a merchant seeking fine pearls, 46 who having found one pearl of great price, he went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

2. Does a person need to fulfill all the conditions of being a disciple (as laid out in (a), (b), and (c)) before receiving the Holy Spirit if he/she is told upfront of the cost of discipleship after hearing the gospel - unlike Bill (and me), who discovered the cost of discipleship at a later time?

Yes. A person must first repent toward God, and then believe in Lord Jesus - a commitment die to the old life, and then commit to listen to and follow Him - before the Spirit will indwell that person.

Acts 5:32 (WEB) 32 We are His witnesses of these things; and so also is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.

Acts 2:38 (WEB) 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

John 14:15-17 (WEB). . . 15 If you love me, keep my commandments. 16 I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever: 17 the Spirit of truth

John 14:23 (WEB) 23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him.

As we continue to live by this same faith, the Spirit leads our faith commitment to victory, freeing us from sin’s bondage.

John 15:8-10 (WEB
8 “In this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; and so you will be my disciples. 9 Even as the Father has loved me, I also have loved you. Remain (abide) in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will remain (abide) in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and remain in his love.

As we abide in Christ by faithful obedience, Lord Jesus continues to abide in us by His Spirit, giving us life.

Romans 6:21-22 (NIV)
21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness (sanctification), and the result is eternal life.

4. If the answer to the second question is a yes, how is it fair that people like Bill (and me) got the chance to taste God's goodness before fully submitting to His lordship, whereas the new Christians who are told upfront of the cost of discipleship after hearing the gospel, do not? Or were me and Bill simply deceived in the first place?

We cannot let our feelings govern what we believe.

5. How does your answer for the second question relate to the process of sanctification?

This issue has been really bothering me for a couple of weeks now. I would really appreciate it if I can get insight into this issue. Thank you, and God bless! :)

Receiving Jesus as Lord by faith is a correct response of a person to the gospel. The conditions which must be met for salvation is faith, and continued faith, and of which Baptism represents.

Romans 6
Colossians 3:1-17
Galatians 5:11-25
 
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Sidon

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Hello, I have several questions regarding Lordship Salvation. Jesus laid out the terms of discipleship in Luke 14:25-33. In order to be a disciple of Jesus (i.e. a true Christian - yes, I believe in Lordship Salvation), these are the conditions (source):!

The "condition" to become Christ's Disciple is found here..

Jesus said...>"you must be BORN Again".
 
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setst777

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The "condition" to become Christ's Disciple is found here..

Jesus said...>"you must be BORN Again".

The Scriptures actually teach us that we are born again onto eternal life by faith in Lord Jesus.

John 3:3-8 (WEB)
3 Jesus answered him, “Most certainly, I tell you, unless one is born anew, he can’t see God’s Kingdom.” 4 Nicodemus replied, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most certainly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can’t enter into God’s Kingdom. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Don’t marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew.’ 8 The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear its sound, but don’t know where it comes from and where it is going. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Does "John 3:3-8" teach that the Spirit regenerates you first before you can irresistibly believe? Read it again... No it doesn’t. That is a forced doctrine of man added onto the text.

Does Lord Jesus' dialogue with Nicodemus end at verse 8? No it doesn't.

To understand what the text means, we have to continue with the context beginning with Nicodemus’ question to Lord Jesus as follows:

John 3:9-18 (WEB)
9 Nicodemus answered him, “How can these things be?

Lord Jesus’, being the loving Lord that He is, did fully reply to Nicodemus' question by explaining when and how the born again experience occurs, if one only takes the time to finish reading Lord Jesus’ reply to Nicodemus.

We find that this born again experience is the eternal life of God in the Spirit, which is by faith, as follows:

John 3:10-18 (WEB)
10 Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and don’t understand these things? 11 Most certainly I tell you, we speak that which we know, and testify of that which we have seen, and you don’t receive our witness. 12 If I told you earthly things and you don’t believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended out of heaven, the Son of Man, who is in heaven. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Lord Jesus plainly teaches in simple language what he means by "born again" when He sums it all up in John 3:13-18. That is the context. Just read John 3:1-18, in context, and you see that this dialogue between Lord Jesus and Nicodemus continues and all flows together – the context is revealed.

We cannot tell where the Spirit goes and who the Spirit will give life to, but we do know the Spirit searches the hearts, and will indwell the true believers in Jesus to give them eternal life. This believing is a continuous action in which the believer drinks (continuously) of the Spirit, who indwells them by faith.

So as a person believes (continuous) and drinks (continuous) the Spirit indwells the believer to give them Spiritual Life. The Spirit only indwells a believer AFTER they hear the word of the Gospel in the New Covenant and believe.

John 7:37-39 (WEB)
37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! (continuous) 38 He who believes (continuous) in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive. For the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus wasn’t yet glorified.

John 4:13-14 (WEB)
13 Jesus answered her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks (continuous) of the water that I will give him will never thirst again; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”

So the one who “believes” or “drinks” is the one who receives the Spirit. The Spirit, who indwells the one who believes/drinks, gives him eternal life.

The New Birth only occurs AFTER Lord Jesus was resurrected.

1 Peter 1:3-4 (WEB) 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an incorruptible and undefiled inheritance that doesn’t fade away, reserved in Heaven for you

So the Old Testament Saints did not yet receive the Spirit to give them life. The OT saints were saved by faith, only after Lord Jesus confirmed the New Covenant.

God accredited righteousness to those who feared God or believed in Him in the Old Covenant, but they were not saved (regenerated) by Christ until Christ had died for their sins in the New Covenant.

Hebrews 9:15 (WEB)
15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance — now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

You recall Lord Jesus' description of Abraham's Bosom (Luke 16:19-31) - the Paradise for believers in the Old Testament awaited in Hades until the New Covenant, so that Paradise would now be transferred to Heaven.

Blessings
 
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Sidon

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The Scriptures actually teach us that we are born again onto eternal life by faith in Lord Jesus.

Exactly.
Now lets drill down to the ROOT of Jesse, as you might want to teach a sunday school class, and this is the topic.

"WHO....is eternal life".

Look at this.....

You said..... we are born again onto eternal life by the Lord Jesus.

Jesus said...>"all that believe in me, i give unto you, Eternal Life, and you shall never perish".

Jesus is "the way the truth and THE LIFE".
Jesus said.>"i came to give you LIFE and that more abundant"..

Jesus is talking about more than giving you money and big screen TVs.

He is speaking of Himself..

Its like this...

John says...."""""that you may KNOW< that you have ETERNAL LIFE.""
You are to KNOW IT, right now....if you are born again.
Then John teaches what Jesus says.......that Jesus HIMSELF IS = eternal life.

See that?

The reason that the born again have eternal life already, is because Jesus, who Himself IS Eternal LIFE....lives INSIDE the Born again.

"Christ IN YOU ........the hope of Glory".

"Glory" is Heaven.
Jesus is Heaven's "Glory".
Jesus is """the Bread who came down from Heaven"

That is why the born again are not waiting for eternal life, but already possess it.

See, if you are born again, then Jesus who IS Eternal LIFE is IN YOU, and you are "One with God,.... and In Christ".

So, to have JESUS, is to possess Eternal life.... = This is ALL the Born again.

Jesus is many things..

He's the Light of the world
He's eternal life
He's the grace of God
He's the alpha and omega
He's the mercy of God
He's the word made Flesh
He's God and Man
He's the blood atonement
He is SALVATION
He is the "eternal redemption".
He is IN all the born again.

So, (reader) if you ever use this post or my Threads as a Sunday School lesson, or a Sermon.....(feel free) and someone says....."are you saying our Salvation is CHRIST HIMSELF< who is our eternal life, and our Blood Atonement".

You say...>"bingo"...>"jack pot"........."we have a winner'.

and then tell them, and Jesus is also : "the Resurrection", as well.

Jesus is ALL OF GOD< who lives in ALL the Born again.
 
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setst777

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Exactly.
Now lets drill down to the ROOT of Jesse, as you might want to teach a sunday school class, and this is the topic.

"WHO....is eternal life".

Look at this.....

You said..... we are born again onto eternal life by the Lord Jesus.

Jesus said...>"all that believe in me, i give unto you, Eternal Life, and you shall never perish".

Jesus is "the way the truth and THE LIFE".
Jesus said.>"i came to give you LIFE and that more abundant"..

Jesus is talking about more than giving you money and big screen TVs.

He is speaking of Himself..

Its like this...

John says...."""""that you may KNOW< that you have ETERNAL LIFE.""
You are to KNOW IT, right now....if you are born again.
Then John teaches what Jesus says.......that Jesus HIMSELF IS = eternal life.

See that?

The reason that the born again have eternal life already, is because Jesus, who Himself IS Eternal LIFE....lives INSIDE the Born again.

"Christ IN YOU ........the hope of Glory".

"Glory" is Heaven.
Jesus is Heaven's "Glory".
Jesus is """the Bread who came down from Heaven"

That is why the born again are not waiting for eternal life, but already possess it.

See, if you are born again, then Jesus who IS Eternal LIFE is IN YOU, and you are "One with God,.... and In Christ".

So, to have JESUS, is to possess Eternal life.... = This is ALL the Born again.

Jesus is many things..

He's the Light of the world
He's eternal life
He's the grace of God
He's the alpha and omega
He's the mercy of God
He's the word made Flesh
He's God and Man
He's the blood atonement
He is SALVATION
He is the "eternal redemption".
He is IN all the born again.

So, (reader) if you ever use this post or my Threads as a Sunday School lesson, or a Sermon.....(feel free) and someone says....."are you saying our Salvation is CHRIST HIMSELF< who is our eternal life, and our Blood Atonement".

You say...>"bingo"...>"jack pot"........."we have a winner'.

and then tell them, and Jesus is also : "the Resurrection", as well.

Jesus is ALL OF GOD< who lives in ALL the Born again.

When do we receive life in the Spirit?

John 7:37-39
(WEB)
37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink!
38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive.

When are we saved from spiritual death to life?

John 5:24 (WEB) 24 “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life

John 8:12 (WEB) 12 Again, therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. [Isaiah 60:1] He who follows me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.”

John 12:46 (WEB) 46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in me may not remain in the darkness.

1 John 1:6-9 (WEB) 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and do not tell the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 2:4-6 (WEB)
4 One who says, “I know him,” and doesn’t keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth isn’t in him.
5 But God’s love has most certainly been perfected in whoever keeps his word.
This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.

Blessings
 
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