20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

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Spiritual Jew

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No it is being glorified. It is putting on a robe of white. It is being transfigured as a bright light. Moses had that process, because they had to cover his face after being with God face to face.

The Greek connotation is becoming God.

Immortal noun: an immortal being, especially a god of ancient Greece or Rome.

Paul says we put on God. That is the image of God. We do not become God. Yes, being in the image of God means living forever. Having an incorruptible body according to John is the same definition:

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power,

Even a physical incorruptible body can never experience the second death. Much less naturally dying again. You are conflating glorification (the spirit) with an incorruptible body (physical).
All I can say in response to this is that you make no sense whatsoever. None. You're all over the place with your comments and it all ends up being completely incoherent.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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What about after AD70?
The new covenant was established by the blood of Christ in 30 AD and continues to this day. It is through His shed blood of the new covenant that we are saved and receive the forgiveness of our sins.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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A spiritual body is still a body.
When exactly did I ever say otherwise?

You either have an earthly body and you live on earth, or you have a heavenly (spiritual) body and you live in heaven.
Where does scripture teach this? I'm not going to be convinced of anything by just your opinions. Show me the scripture which teaches what you're saying.

If John saw people in heaven, then they have their heavenly bodies already. They've been resurrected.
Again, what scripture are these claims based on?
 
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Spiritual Jew

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I already answered, I am in Christ. But you claim those in Paradise are in the "same boat" as we are. That is impossible.
I have never claimed that (whatever that even means), so stop saying that I claimed things that I never said.

What does saying that "those in Paradise are in the same boat as we are" even mean?
 
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jeffweedaman

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A spiritual body is still a body. You either have an earthly body and you live on earth, or you have a heavenly (spiritual) body and you live in heaven. If John saw people in heaven, then they have their heavenly bodies already. They've been resurrected.

The dead in Christ are resurrected at his second coming and are changed along with the living in Christ at that time.

1Jn 3
Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.


1Thess 4
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who remain, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore, comfort one another with these words.

1Thess 5
9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him. 11 Therefore, encourage one another and build one another up, just as you also are doing.

2Thess 1

5 This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you indeed are suffering. 6 For after all it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted, along with us, when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God, and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified among His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—because our testimony to you was believed.


Rom 8
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the eagerly awaiting creation waits for the revealing of the sons and daughters of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. 23 And not only that, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons and daughters, the redemption of our body. 24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, through perseverance we wait eagerly for it.

2Tim 4

I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:
2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
5 But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry
6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith;
8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.
 
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Jeffwhosoever

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The new covenant was established by the blood of Christ in 30 AD and continues to this day. It is through His shed blood of the new covenant that we are saved and receive the forgiveness of our sins.

Then we are in agreement!
 
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Timtofly

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What does the following verse mean to you then:

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Lazarus rose from the dead before Jesus did. So, is this verse wrong about Christ being the first to rise from the dead or is it only speaking of Him being the first to rise from the dead in a certain sense, such as unto bodily immortality?
That the church is in Christ, who is the firstfruits. This is plural because the redeemed are in Christ, the firstfruits.

Lazarus is in Christ. Lazarus heard the voice of the Lord Christ calling him to His Resurrection, the firstfruits.
 
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Timtofly

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The problem is that your interpretation of 2 Corinthians 5 contradicts what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:50-54, which is that all of the dead in Christ will be resurrected and changed at the same time, which will be at the last trumpet.

You try to say that the change occurs for each person upon death which would require many last trumpets (one for each person). But there is just one last trumpet and when it sounds in the future all of the dead, along with all of those who are alive at the time, will be changed to have incorruptible, immortal bodies.
You think Jesus Christ cannot call each soul home?
 
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Timtofly

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I have heard it all now! How possibly can you deem "cometh the end" as a group? That doesn't make sense. This shows you the folly of your argument. The end is talking about the end of time/this age/corruption and this fallen world.

And where exactly is there any mention of your so-called future millennium in the text? Nowhere. You must force it into the inspired pages. It is forbidden by the wording.
Well so is the last 1991 years. You should just claim they do not exist either.
 
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Timtofly

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You try to say that our bodies are changed and become incorruptible upon death, but Paul indicated that our bodies will be changed at the last trumpet and they will be both incorruptible and immortal at that time. For some reason, you don't acknowledge that the words incorruptible and immortal mean the same thing.
The change at the Second Coming is only for those souls on earth. The change already happened for those in Paradise.

At the Second Coming all the church will be glorified at one time.

The change was what happened at the Cross. This change let the church enter Paradise. Souls were in sheol/Abraham's bosom, prior to the Cross.
 
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Timtofly

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That is exactly what Paul is talking about in the passage you quoted. He said that to be apart from the body is to be present with the Lord. That clearly shows that you don't need a body to be present with the Lord. The reason that John said he saw the souls of those who had been slain in heaven (Rev 6:9, Rev 20:4) is because their bodies have not yet been resurrected and changed into the incorruptible, immortal spiritual bodies that Paul said we will have when the last trumpet sounds. The last trumpet has not yet sounded!
No you need the permanent incorruptible body to enter Paradise. Those in Abraham's bosom did not have that until the Cross. That is the whole point.
 
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Guojing

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The old covenant was wiped out at the cross, not AD70. The new covenant age did not begin in AD 70; it began at the cross. The new covenant was fully introduced in His blood. The removing of the outward apparatus was totally secondary and a result of the new covenant being activated.

The removal of the last vestiges of the old covenant arrangement may have finally been removed in AD70, but that was just a sign of God's longsuffering with Israel. Notwithstanding, when Christ said "it is finished" that was the end of the old covenant arrangement. Once the curtain was cut in two that was it. Its usefulness had found its termination point in God's economy. Christ was now the final sacrifice for sin. He had now introduced a new covenant to replace the old! It is already made at the cross! He has already removed our sin!

Did the resurrected Christ told the 11 at any point of time, that the "The old covenant was wiped out at the cross"?

Why not?
 
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Guojing

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What was the covenant between AD30 and AD70?

To think that the final question the 11 asked Jesus, before they will never see him again, was not "Lord, are we now finally under the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31, because of the cross?"

But instead, it was a question recorded for us in Acts 1:6. =)
 
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Guojing

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The new covenant was established by the blood of Christ in 30 AD and continues to this day. It is through His shed blood of the new covenant that we are saved and receive the forgiveness of our sins.

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

If you believe the NC is for today, why do we need pastors to teach us to know the Lord?

Isn't God promising here that EVERYONE of us would know him and not require anyone to teach them to?
 
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Guojing

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Yes: it is finished.

So why didn't the resurrected Christ teach them that? Or you assume he must have done so?

If he did, why did Peter still state Acts 10:14 14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

Why did James still insist on Jews keeping the Law in Acts 21:24? 24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

No one told them that the Old Covenant of Law is finished after the cross?
 
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keras

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If you believe the NC is for today, why do we need pastors to teach us to know the Lord?

Isn't God promising here that EVERYONE of us would know him and not require anyone to teach them to?
The New Covenant will be made between the Lord and His faithful people. Those Christians who stood firm in their faith during all the graphically prophesied events to happen before Jesus Returns.

Isaiah 61:1-2a The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because the Lord has anointed me. He has sent me to announce good news to the humble, to bind up the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and to proclaim a year of the Lords favor, Luke 4:16-21

Isaiah 61:2b-3...and a Day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn, to give then garlands instead of ashes, oil of gladness, instead of mourners tears and a garment of splendor for the distressed. They will be called trees of righteousness, planted by the Lord for His adornment.

Isaiah 61:4-11 Buildings long in ruin and desolate will be restored and rebuilt. Foreigners will serve you, caring for your flocks and vines, but you will be called priests of the Lord [the Christians; Revelation 5:9-10] and the wealth of the nations will be yours. Because My people have received insults and shame in double measure, they will receive in their own Land, wealth in double measure.

For I, the Lord love justice and hate injustice, I shall give My people a sure reward and make an everlasting Covenant with them. Their posterity will be renowned among the nations, they will be seen as a people blessed by the Lord.

Let us rejoice in the Lord with all our hearts. From Him has come victory and deliverance. His people, robed in beauty are like a garden full of flowers. The Lord will make His victory and renown known to the nations. Reference: REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.
 
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sovereigngrace

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So why didn't the resurrected Christ teach them that? Or you assume he must have done so?

If he did, why did Peter still state Acts 10:14 14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

Why did James still insist on Jews keeping the Law in Acts 21:24? 24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

No one told them that the Old Covenant of Law is finished after the cross?

If you would care to study the NT you will see it. Colossians 2:14 plainly and unambiguously declares, that Christ's atonement resulted in the “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.”

The Greek word for “Blotting out” here is exaleiphō (eks-ä-lā'-fō) meaning: ‘to wipe off, wipe away, to obliterate, erase, wipe out, blot out’

These old covenant ordinances (rites and rituals) pertaining to the ceremonial law were obliterated at the cross.

For those that still anticipate the renaissance of the old abolished ordinances we need to ask: When did (or will) the “blotting out the handwriting of ordinances” occur? From this passage it is clear, Christ “took it out of the way” by “nailing it to his cross.” These ordinances embraced the old covenant civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law. They were finished at the cross.

Colossians 2:16-17 tells us: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”

The Greek word translated “holyday” here is heorte meaning feast or festival. Of 27 mentions of this word in the normally precise KJV, it is interpreted “feast” in all of them apart from here.

New American Standard interprets: “Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day -- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”

The Living Bible says, “So don't let anyone criticize you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating Jewish holidays and feasts or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these were only temporary rules that ended when Christ came. They were only shadows of the real thing-of Christ himself.”

Paul is saying here that the old covenant feasts and festivals simply served as types and shadows of things that were to come. They looked forward to the new covenant arrangement and the reality and substance in Christ. The Jews of Ezekiel’s day and Zechariah’s day would never have understood this.

Colossians 2:20-22 finally sums up the sums up the biblical position today: “Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?”

This is not talking about the moral law, it is talking about the ceremonial law. It is a redundant system. Christ took the whole old system away. The old Mosaic ceremonial law is completely gone. It is useless.

Christianity took us away from the old Mosaic ceremonial law completely. Those who argue for a return to the old system fail to see that it has been rendered obsolete through the new covenant.

Hebrews 7:18-19 makes clear: “For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”

This word “disannulling” is taken from the Greek word athetesis meaning cancellation.

The phrase “weakness and unprofitableness” used here to describe the old abolished system actually reads asthenes kai anopheles literally meaning: feeble and impotent useless and unprofitable.

It is hard to believe that Christian scholars would promote the return, on the new earth of all places, of such a hopeless discarded arrangement.

When Christ made that final sacrifice for sin He satisfied all God’s holy demands for sin and uncleanness and thus Christ became the final substitution for the sinner. Ephesians 2:13-15 also says, “now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us]; Having abolished (katargeo) in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances.”

The Greek word katargeo is used here to describe the fate that befell the old Mosaic ritualistic system relating to “the law of commandments contained in ordinances.” This word means: ‘bring to nought’, ‘none effect’, and ‘abolish’. Jesus did away with any need or reliance upon the outward keeping of the old covenant religious system. The cross fulfilled forever God’s demand for a perfect once-for-all sacrifice.

Hebrews 7:16 tells us that Christ “is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.”

The whole context here is the removal and the replacement of the old covenant priesthood, the writer of the Hebrews presents Christ as heavens eternal replacement. What is more, we can see that this priesthood cannot pass from one to another, it is not transferrable. No other can appropriate this title or share in the function of the position, Christ alone holds that sacred high priestly office. Christ is the only real and perfect high priest today. He is the ultimate and final High Priest of the redeemed of God.

The animal sacrifices were done away forever. Hebrews 10:4-12 explains, For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.”

When Jesus died on the cross He instituted the new covenant which allowed the believer to access God directly. No longer would the bulk of God’s people be excluded from the presence of the Lord by a veil. No longer did they need an earthly priest to represent them before God. They were now free to approach Him personally by simple faith. Christ removed the partition between God and His people when He laid down His life for our sins. He became man’s final high priest.

The curtain between the believer and God was eternally torn apart. The separation was removed. Matthew 27:51 says, “And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent.” This veil was representative of Christ’s physical body. It was torn apart in order to secure eternal redemption for God’s people. It is only through Jesus that we can approach God. The way to salvation can only be found in Jesus.
 
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