Believe in Jesus and you will be saved

d taylor said:

Is it Jesus that saves or His work. They are not the same. Your headline states believe in Jesus and you will be saved. But then you say in your post.
When we believe, trusting in His completed work,

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fli said:

Isaiah 41:22 "Let them bring forth and show us what will happen; Let them show the former things, what they were, That we may consider them, And know the latter end of them; Or declare to us things to come. NKJV]

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,' NKJV
If one knows how a thing began then we know how it will end.
Genesis 2: 17 God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil or he would surely die. Genesis 3:17 Adam believed Eve and ate the forbidden fruit.
Sin and death began when Adam did not believe God.
Genesis 15:6 Abraham was accounted righteous when he believed God.
Isaiah 28: 16 Whoever believes in the cornerstone will not be put to shame.
The OT message was believe God and be saved. When one believes God they have repented of the original sin.
1 Peter 1: 20-21 through Jesus we believe in God.
1John 5:10 he who believes in the Son has the witness in himself. He who does not believe has called God a liar.

Salvation is guaranteed as long as one believes in Jesus. When we believe, trusting in His completed work, we come in as a child trusting the Father. By realizing that Jesus has done all that is needed for salvation we are giving Him all the praise, glory and honor that is due Him. If we claim that we need to do anything other than believe, we are taking some of Jesus' glory.

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To bring God glory and honor we will repent of all sin. That shows God and the world that we love Him more than the world or worldly pleasures. The pleasures of the flesh are far far less than the pleasures of being a loved child of God.

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To love God with all one's heart, mind ,soul and strength is what He deserves.
No work is done for salvation. Any work done is to bring Him glory, honor and praise.

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fli said:

Isaiah 41:22 "Let them bring forth and show us what will happen; Let them show the former things, what they were, That we may consider them, And know the latter end of them; Or declare to us things to come. NKJV]

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,' NKJV

If one knows how a thing began then we know how it will end.

Genesis 2: 17 God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil or he would surely die. Genesis 3:17 Adam believed Eve and ate the forbidden fruit.

Sin and death began when Adam did not believe God.

Genesis 15:6 Abraham was accounted righteous when he believed God.

Isaiah 28: 16 Whoever believes in the cornerstone will not be put to shame.

The OT message was believe God and be saved. When one believes God they have repented of the original sin.

1 Peter 1: 20-21 through Jesus we believe in God.

1John 5:10 he who believes in the Son has the witness in himself. He who does not believe has called God a liar.

Salvation is guaranteed as long as one believes in Jesus. When we believe, trusting in His completed work, we come in as a child trusting the Father. By realizing that Jesus has done all that is needed for salvation we are giving Him all the praise, glory and honor that is due Him. If we claim that we need to do anything other than believe, we are taking some of Jesus' glory.

To bring God glory and honor we will repent of all sin. That shows God and the world that we love Him more than the world or worldly pleasures. The pleasures of the flesh are far far less than the pleasures of being a loved child of God. To love God with all one's heart, mind ,soul and strength is what He deserves. No work is done for salvation. Any work done is to bring Him glory, honor and praise.

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klutedavid said:

1 John 2:3
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

What commandments?

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.

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fli said:

Isaiah 41:22 "Let them bring forth and show us what will happen; Let them show the former things, what they were, That we may consider them, And know the latter end of them; Or declare to us things to come. NKJV]

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,' NKJV

If one knows how a thing began then we know how it will end.

Genesis 2: 17 God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil or he would surely die. Genesis 3:17 Adam believed Eve and ate the forbidden fruit.

Sin and death began when Adam did not believe God.

Genesis 15:6 Abraham was accounted righteous when he believed God.

Isaiah 28: 16 Whoever believes in the cornerstone will not be put to shame.

The OT message was believe God and be saved. When one believes God they have repented of the original sin.

1 Peter 1: 20-21 through Jesus we believe in God.

1John 5:10 he who believes in the Son has the witness in himself. He who does not believe has called God a liar.

Salvation is guaranteed as long as one believes in Jesus. When we believe, trusting in His completed work, we come in as a child trusting the Father. By realizing that Jesus has done all that is needed for salvation we are giving Him all the praise, glory and honor that is due Him. If we claim that we need to do anything other than believe, we are taking some of Jesus' glory.

To bring God glory and honor we will repent of all sin. That shows God and the world that we love Him more than the world or worldly pleasures. The pleasures of the flesh are far far less than the pleasures of being a loved child of God. To love God with all one's heart, mind ,soul and strength is what He deserves. No work is done for salvation. Any work done is to bring Him glory, honor and praise.

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Guojing said:

So do you believe John is teaching we must also love another, to be saved?

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Soyeong said:

What we believe is expressed through our actions, which is why James 2:17-18 says that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith, so doing good works is what it means to believe. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. In Hebrews 11, every example of faith is also an example of obedience to God and there are many others verses that associate our belief in God with our obedience to Him. When we express God's nature through our obedience to His commands, we are testifying about what we believe about who God is, or in other words, we are believing in Him. In Exodus 20:6, God wanted His people to love Him and obey His commandments, so there are also many verses in both the OT and the NT that associate our love for God with our obedience to Him.

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to obey His laws for how to do that is itself part of the content of His gift of salvation. Furthermore, in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works is what it means to believe in his completed works on the cross. Becoming zealous for doing good works has nothing with taking glory from Jesus, but rather that is the way to give glory to God (Matthew 5:16). Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so being trained by grace to live in obedience to God's law through faith is what it means to receive the gift of Jesus saving us from living in transgression of God's law. In 1 John 3:10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God. While we do not earn our salvation by our works, that does not mean that our salvation does not involve being trained by grace to do good works.

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klutedavid said:

Sure looks like John is saying that.

Though I would state that the belief in the death and resurrection of Jesus, is the primary doctrine.

Then loving others is the fruit of the Holy Spirit and that would be the secondary doctrine.

You can use the word commandment instead of doctrine also.

One cannot love others to any degree at all without receiving the Holy Spirit.

Paul and John are almost identical in these two doctrines or commandments.

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Guojing said:

Elsewhere John stated

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him

1 John 3:
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 4

7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Those are plenty of verses from 1 John that made it clear that loving others, doing righteousness are all required to know God/abide in him/born of him/be righteous.

So why would anyone conclude that "Paul and John are almost identical in these two doctrines or commandments"?

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klutedavid said:

Because they are the fundamental two commandments and the most important two commandments in the new covenant.

If you don't believe in Jesus you are instantly judged.

If you don't love then you may not be a Christian, love is the fruit.

Everything else is minor in it's ramifications but a failure to love others, is a necessary attribute of that relationship with Jesus.

If you wanted to summarize the life of Jesus then it is that unconditional, divine love. Expressed towards a very underserving, evil, creation. If you manage to express unconditional love in your Christian life. It's highly unlikely that your even sinning.

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Guojing said:

I see, so you think Paul is also teaching us that "If you don't love then you may not be a Christian"?

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Loving others is a requirement for us to stay a Christian?

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Guojing said:

I see, so you think Paul is also teaching us that "If you don't love then you may not be a Christian"?

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Loving others is a requirement for us to stay a Christian?

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klutedavid said:

Definitely yes.To believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is what actually saves us.

That is the first and primary doctrine in Christianity.

One must endure in that belief all the way through our life.

The secondary doctrine is the new commandment, unconditional love, which validates our faith.

Loving others means our belief in Jesus is an authentic faith.

Faith first then love follows.

We are never saved on the basis of our effort or works.

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klutedavid said:

After faith is established then comes good works.

That obedience is not to a legal constitution.

That obedience is to the commands that Jesus gave us.

We are members of a new covenant and we have been given a new set of commandments.

Sin in light of the new covenant is even better defined as not loving others.

People that have an unconditional love of others will not kill or steal, e.t.c.

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Soyeong said:

In James 2:17-18, he said that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith by his works, so good works are what faith looks like. Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so he would have still taught us how to obey it by example even if he had commanded nothing, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). Furthermore, Jesus was not in disagreement with the Father about which commands we should follow, so he did not give his own commands and did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practiced. In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the law, Jesus did not do that, but rather everything taught in the NT is in accordance with what was taught in the OT.

Sin is based on what is against God's nature, and God's nature is eternal, so the actions that are sinful are also eternal. Sin was in the world before the law was given (Romans 5:13), so there were no actions that became sinful when the Mosaic Covenant was made, and the same is true of the New Covenant. If the actions that were sinful changed under the New Covenant, then God's nature would not be eternal. It is just as true that sin under the Mosaic Covenant is defined as not loving loving others, and disobedience to all of its laws are examples of what it looks like to not love others.

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Guojing said:

So you believed we are saved by belief alone in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ first, but to maintain that salvation, we must love others after that?

So if we don't love others after we are saved, our faith is not authentic and thus, we are not really saved?

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klutedavid said:

John seems to imply that.

1 John 1:6-7
If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

To say that anyone is not saved even though they call on Jesus but do not express love. Is a very tough call to make, given the following verses.

Joel 2:32
And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord Will be delivered.

Acts 2:21
And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Romans 10:13
For whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.

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Guojing said:

So my point to you is, if you read scripture and understand them literally, John cannot be preaching the same gospel as Paul does.

People try to spiritualize what John is actually saying, in order to make John say the same as Paul.

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