Race seems to be a divisive issue among Christians

coffee4u

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Europeans in general dismiss their racist colonial past as a by product of the "Empire". Additionally, they are quick to point out American racism, and ignore how Jews, and Gypsies and Saami are treated in Europe. Oh, and I forgot, how blacks were enslaved by Europeans as well.

While no one should dismiss sin- which is what racism really is, you do realize that Europe has 44 countries all with vastly different cultures and that only a handful of those took part in colonialism? If you are talking about the colonialism that occurred in the Americas that was Britain, France, Spain and the Netherlands to some degree, but mostly the first three. How about blaming those at fault instead of making sweeping incorrect generalizations.
 
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coffee4u

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Yes. Infants are not racist. I think that the experiment is trying to show that they pick up and internalise racial stereotypes. This is not the same as being racist as I.X.Kendi points out.

The experiment has been conducted countless times since the 1940s (with children from 5 to 10). It's become something of a standard experiment. The variables change, but the results remain the same.

For example, one version of the test involves older children assigning values to the dolls. Children assigned labels such as ''ugly' 'stupid' 'awful' to the dark coloured dolls.

I am sure by school age there would be at least some internalized racial stereotypes, a sad fact of life. It would be interesting to know though the demographic picked for such experiments. Are they picking children who may be more likely to have these bias and what about children raised in homes where diversity is celebrated or blended racial households? If they all pick the same way I would wonder if something else isn't going on, such as the children picking based on what the adults want. Children are very good at picking up on adult expectations. Adults may think they are giving no clues, but often when conversations are annalized there are tells like voice tone, blinking or posture.
 
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RDKirk

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Interesting how many people in this thread seem to think the divide between black and white Christians begins with CRT and BLM.

Let's go back to the pastor and founder of the original Baptist church in America (the real "First Baptist Church")...who was an ardent abolitionist. The early American Baptists were so opposed to slavery that they didn't even permit members to hire domestic servants. But the Southern Baptist Convention split away from those Abolitionist Baptists in 1845 explicitly so that they could keep their slaves. Who thinks that was not a point of division?

And it's interesting that in 1787, even slaveholders were willing to admit that slavery was a sin (as other Christians all around the world were concluding)...but 13 years later, Christians in the south concocted the ridiculous, unbiblical "Curse of Ham" theory to declare slavery was ordained by God as a continuing commandment against the black race...and has even been supported in these forums. Who thinks that was not a point of division?

What of white people calling themselves Christians, yet on a Saturday night capturing black men and women, torturing them, strangling them, setting them afire even before they were dead, then clipping off their fingers and toes as souvenirs...and then the next Sunday morning singing "How Great Thou Art?" Who thinks that was not a point of division?

What of white people calling themselves Christian bombing a bus for carrying both whites and blacks through their state? Or bombing a church and killing four black girls in Sunday School...and then the white jury exonerating the killers? Christians, all of them. Who thinks that was not a point of division?

Who thinks white Christians declaring Barak Obama the Anti-Christ and that the world was coming to an end because he was elected president was not a point of division?

White Christians hated Martin Luther King's guts as he said, "I have a dream," oh, but now you want to quote that one line--only that one line--and still ignore everything else he had to say.

Y'll act like CRT and BLM are the causes of the problem.

You're wrong. They are reactions to it.
 
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Silverback

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While no one should dismiss sin- which is what racism really is, you do realize that Europe has 44 countries all with vastly different cultures and that only a handful of those took part in colonialism? If you are talking about the colonialism that occurred in the Americas that was Britain, France, Spain and the Netherlands to some degree, but mostly the first three. How about blaming those at fault instead of making sweeping incorrect generalizations.

If you consider the Americas to be both North and South, then, then you forgot Portugal, Denmark, and Sweden.

However, if you consider world wide, then you have to include...Belgium, Germany, Italy, Greece, Turkey, and Austria-Hungary...you know Arch Duke Franz Ferdinand and WW1.

Additionally, Europe may be 44 Nations in 2021, it has not always been 44 Nations, and you cannot get to that number without counting the former Yugoslav and Russian states...and Vatican city.
 
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coffee4u

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Interesting how many people in this thread seem to think the divide between black and white Christians begins with CRT and BLM.

Let's go back to the pastor and founder of the original Baptist church in America (the real "First Baptist Church")...who was an ardent abolitionist. The early American Baptists were so opposed to slavery that they didn't even permit members to hire domestic servants. But the Southern Baptist Convention split away from those Abolitionist Baptists in 1845 explicitly so that they could keep their slaves. Who thinks that was not a point of division?

And it's interesting that in 1787, even slaveholders were willing to admit that slavery was a sin (as other Christians all around the world were concluding)...but 13 years later, Christians in the south concocted the ridiculous, unbiblical "Curse of Ham" theory to declare slavery was ordained by God as a continuing commandment against the black race...and has even been supported in these forums. Who thinks that was not a point of division?

What of white people calling themselves Christians, yet on a Saturday night capturing black men and women, torturing them, strangling them, setting them afire even before they were dead, then clipping off their fingers and toes as souvenirs...and then the next Sunday morning singing "How Great Thou Art?" Who thinks that was not a point of division?

What of white people calling themselves Christian bombing a bus for carrying both whites and blacks through their state? Or bombing a church and killing four black girls in Sunday School...and then the white jury exonerating the killers? Christians, all of them. Who thinks that was not a point of division?

Who thinks white Christians declaring Barak Obama the Anti-Christ and that the world was coming to an end because he was elected president was not a point of division?

White Christians hated Martin Luther King's guts as he said, "I have a dream," oh, but now you want to quote that one line--only that one line--and still ignore everything else he had to say.

Y'll act like CRT and BLM are the causes of the problem.

You're wrong. They are reactions to it.

People claim all sorts of things. Just because someone claims something doesn't make it true.

Matthew 7:15-20


15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
You shall know them by their fruits.

They weren't Christians which is the main issue.
If you look at history practically every white colonizer in the US would have called themselves a Christian vs being 'a heathen'. It was a meaningless label and part of being white when it has nothing to do with it.

Christian comes from the Greek word “Χριστιανός/ Christianos,” which literally means a follower of Christ. I highly doubt a single one of them had given their heart to the Lord and followed his teachings. If they thought they were, they were deluded. The rest were the wolves that Christ taught us to beware of.
 
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RDKirk

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People claim all sorts of things. Just because someone claims something doesn't make it true.

Matthew 7:15-20


15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
You shall know them by their fruits.

They weren't Christians which is the main issue.
If you look at history practically every white colonizer in the US would have called themselves a Christian vs being 'a heathen'. It was a meaningless label and part of being white when it has nothing to do with it.

Christian comes from the Greek word “Χριστιανός/ Christianos,” which literally means a follower of Christ. I highly doubt a single one of them had given their heart to the Lord and followed his teachings. If they thought they were, they were deluded. The rest were the wolves that Christ taught us to beware of.

Oh, I fully agree that the Holy Spirit was in none of those people. But that was the attitude across the board in those churches in the American south. It was not as though some churches were different. It's not as though those people faced backlash from other whites preaching the "real" gospel. It was the common state. We would have to conclude that white Christians who were true to the Lord were an invisibly small minority in the southern States.
 
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Silverback

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Oh, I fully agree that the Holy Spirit was in none of those people. But that was the attitude across the board in those churches in the American south. It was not as though some churches were different. It's not as though those people faced backlash from other whites preaching the "real" gospel. It was the common state. We would have to conclude that white Christians who were true to the Lord were an invisibly small minority in the southern States.

You can't speak to the thoughts of other people, or what was said to everyone.
 
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RDKirk

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You can't speak to the thoughts of other people, or what was said to everyone.

“By their deeds you will know them. Does a man gather grapes from thorns or figs from briars?” -- Matthew 7
 
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grasping the after wind

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While no one should dismiss sin- which is what racism really is, you do realize that Europe has 44 countries all with vastly different cultures and that only a handful of those took part in colonialism? If you are talking about the colonialism that occurred in the Americas that was Britain, France, Spain and the Netherlands to some degree, but mostly the first three. How about blaming those at fault instead of making sweeping incorrect generalizations.


Sweeping incorrect generalizations is what CRT is all about.
 
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Clare73

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It certainly is divisive in society at large, but why here in a forum where we are supposed to be one in Christ? Perhaps it isn't divisive and I'm just hanging around the wrong threads.
Threads dealing with racial topics seem to generate more tension than topics you would presume to be controversial.
The fire surrounding BLM and CRT is a prime example of this. CRT seems to really rub Christians up the wrong way.
I'm assuming that it's just because the church is a reflection of the society at large.
Hardly. . .it's because both BLM and CRT are racist.

Race is not a problem in America.
But there are those (BLM, CRT) who are working assiduously to make it a problem in America,
and it is they that are the real problem in America, not race.
The races are getting along fine, thank you, and I won't have any of this.

Who here is not getting along with another race?
Do you know anyone who is not getting along with another race?
And there's your answer regarding "racism" in America.
 
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RDKirk

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Hardly. . .it's because both BLM and CRT are racist.

Race is not a problem in America.
But there are those (BLM, CRT) who are working assiduously to make it a problem in America,
and it is they that are the real problem in America, not race.
The races are getting along fine, thank you, and I won't have any of this.

Who here is not getting along with another race?
Do you know anyone who is not getting along with another race?
And there's your answer regarding "racism" in America.

Race has always been and has never stopped being a problem in America.
 
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grasping the after wind

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Race has always been and has never stopped being a problem in America.

Race is not the problem. Believing in the tribalistic concept of an individual's race as a reason to find that individual lacking is the problem.
 
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Eftsoon

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Race is not the problem. Believing in the tribalistic concept of an individual's race as a reason to find that individual lacking is the problem.

That's essentially what he means, and you're both absolutely right.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Well, certain Christians, anyway - by no means all.

The RR has done an exceedingly good job of infiltrating and indoctrinating many in many churches (and, noticeably, specifically predominantly white churches). You can barely recognize much of American Christianity as being actually Christianity at all.

"Although Wayne occupies a prominent place in the pantheon of evangelical heroes, he is but one of many rugged and even ruthless icons of masculinity that evangelicals imbued with religious significance. Like Wayne, the heroes who best embodied militant Christian masculinity were those unencumbered by traditional Christian virtues. In this way, militant masculinity linked religious and secular conservatism, helping to secure an alliance with profound political ramifications. For many evangelicals, these militant heroes would come to define not only Christian manhood but Christianity itself." - Kristen Kobes DuMez, Jesus and John Wayne

"With few exceptions, black men, Middle Eastern men, and Hispanic men are not called to a wild, militant masculinity. Their aggression, by contrast, is seen as dangerous, a threat to the stability of home and nation." - ibid.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Ophiolite

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Racism is noticing the race of an individual before you notice their humanity.
Racism is being conscious of your own race before you notice your own humanity.
Racism will not be at end until we stop talking about.

On the basis of the last sentence, I'm not helping matters.
 
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Eftsoon

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Racism is noticing the race of an individual before you notice their humanity.
Racism is being conscious of your own race before you notice your own humanity.
Racism will not be at end until we stop talking about.

On the basis of the last sentence, I'm not helping matters.

Well, race will eventually be quite meaningless since intermarriage is becoming more and more common.
 
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RDKirk

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Racism will not be at end until we stop talking about.


Would pedophilia in the Catholic church end by keeping quiet about it? Would spouse abuse end by keeping quiet about it?

No sin ends by keeping quiet about it.
 
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