Do you want a globalist economy over a nationalist one?

Do you want a globalist economy over a nationalist one?

  • We are the world!

    Votes: 17 54.8%
  • America First!

    Votes: 14 45.2%

  • Total voters
    31

Tiberius Lee

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A job folding shirts at Old Navy does not pay what a master machinist had been able to make in an industrial plant.

Again and again , people who complain about globalism and cry about jobs are lost and “we want all our jobs back” .. they just want to live in 1950s where a High School dropout can put some hard-honest work and became a “Master Machinist” and make $17 /h.

If you go to Coal Regions you will hear people say “ my granddaddy, my daddy worked in Coal mine and I want to work in Coal mine and make honest money and work hard like my daddy or grandaddy” . it sound so nice and honest. And your heart goes out to them. But

Sorry those days are over. This is 21st Century. You want the highest paying job in today’s market .. then go to University, get a Master. In 2021 you can’t just finish High School and think you will be “Master Machinist” and get paid highest salary like they did in 50s and think you will buy 4 bedroom house and a new Ford Truck. If you don’t re-invent and educate yourself and your children then only option is to “folding shirts at Old Navy”
 
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Landon Caeli

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Again and again , people who complain about globalism and cry about jobs are lost and “we want all our jobs back” .. they just want to live in 1950s where a High School dropout can put some hard-honest work and became a “Master Machinist” and make $17 /h.

If you go to Coal Regions you will hear people say “ my granddaddy, my daddy worked in Coal mine and I want to work in Coal mine and make honest money and work hard like my daddy or grandaddy” . it sound so nice and honest. And your heart goes out to them. But

Sorry those days are over. This is 21st Century. You want the highest paying job in today’s market .. then go to University, get a Master. In 2021 you can’t just finish High School and think you will be “Master Machinist” and get paid highest salary like they did in 50s and think you will buy 4 bedroom house and a new Ford Truck. If you don’t re-invent and educate yourself and your children then only option is to “folding shirts at Old Navy”

Why wouldn't people want easy to find, good paying jobs again..? o_O

...Are you saying you want things to be harder for regular Americans?
 
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Ken-1122

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Landon Caeli

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This is what I don't understand about partisan politics and our divisive bi-polar political environment: You have one party helping the CEO's, and the other helping the marginalized groups.

...The regular, middle class has no representation at all, and hasn't for a very long time. I call this "dysfunctional".
 
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Tiberius Lee

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Why wouldn't people want easy to find, good paying jobs again..? o_O

...Are you saying you want things to be harder for regular Americans?

When we invent time machine we can go back to 1950s and have “ easy “ time. But until then lets live in 21st century.
 
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Landon Caeli

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When we invent time machine we can go back to 1950s and have “ easy “ time. But until then lets live in 21st century.

That doesn't make any sense. We have the tools to do exactly as we wish to do in this day and age. We shouldn't pretend like it's an unreachable fantasy.

...The only thing stopping us is our strict adherence to what our party masters feed us.

Never believe them when they tell you your goals are unreachable...Impossible...Absurd...
 
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miamited

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Hi 98cwitr,

True, and yet we see that in those times government regulation fostered American economy, rather than placate it.

I'm not sure what it is that you're referring to as specific government government regulations that may have been in force at the time, that are not in force now. American government regulations have always generally fostered a healthy American business atmosphere. However, as the world grew up and America began this lust for foreign domination in business and financial matters I can't imagine that other nations wouldn't want to grab a piece of the pie. There's an entire world out there. People, God-likeness created people who want to live and breath as much as you do. China wants to be global player much like America has been. Why not? What makes America so special to the Chinese? I remember in the days that my comment was referencing that we generally complained about how poorly made Japanese products were. Well, they took note and made improvements and minded their quality control and wound up producing much better automobiles than we were producing, which forced American automakers to make better vehicles. Remember the K car from Chrysler. The falling headliners of many, many GM automobiles. The crappy mechanical longevity of American made cars. Japan made us get better at making them. We should be thanking Japan that they started to eat our lunch and we took note and got better at our production quality. Now, the issue is with China. Friend, listen, I don't know how much life you've lived, but when you're the top dog, everyone wants to take you down a notch or two.

However, just as with Japan in the 70's, their imported goods to the U.S. and other parts of the world provided incomes and food for their families and today Japan is still a pretty solid manufacturing nation. China, with all of its billions of people just wants to come and sit at the economic table and personally, I don't see anything wrong with that or why we should deny them their place if they're willing to do the work. They aren't putting America out of work! We are still the largest economic powerhouse with the greatest per capita income of pretty much any nation on the planet...except for maybe Kuwait or Dubai.

Why am I reading this as both a defense and promotion of communism?

Listen, communism is a form of governance that really isn't what China is following economically. Their political machine may proclaim a type of communism, but they aren't really living true communism. True communism is pretty much dead. About the only place that really practices it is N. Korea and they're suffering every day because of it. No, I don't associate the movement of goods and services around the globe as supporting any particular type of government. Trust me, the people in other countries that buy American goods aren't buying because they support Democracy. There was a time that Russia practiced pretty hard line communism, but even they have softened on the communism part of what makes a government communist. Yes, they don't freely elect their leader, but then neither does Great Britain. China does elect a lot of their lower government officials, as does Russia. Russia holds parliamentary elections.

So, I don't much concern myself with the name calling of governmental systems. Personally, I thought most of that died off with McCarthyism.

Gotta work. Write more later.

God bless,
Ted
 
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98cwitr

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I'm not sure what it is that you're referring to as specific government government regulations that may have been in force at the time, that are not in force now. American government regulations have always generally fostered a healthy American business atmosphere.

Not really. We have to look at reasons why companies leave the US for greener pastures, what policies Trump enacted to get those companies to bring their manufacturing back to the US, and what Biden is doing to undo that (again). Namely, foreign policy, taxation, and regulations are what drive companies away, taking the jobs with them. Now, it's the extension of unemployment insurance which seems to be nothing less than a litmus test for UBI (along with the stimulus checks).

However, as the world grew up and America began this lust for foreign domination in business and financial matters I can't imagine that other nations wouldn't want to grab a piece of the pie. There's an entire world out there. People, God-likeness created people who want to live and breath as much as you do. China wants to be global player much like America has been. Why not? What makes America so special to the Chinese?

Money and power it seems.

I remember in the days that my comment was referencing that we generally complained about how poorly made Japanese products were. Well, they took note and made improvements and minded their quality control and wound up producing much better automobiles than we were producing, which forced American automakers to make better vehicles. Remember the K car from Chrysler. The falling headliners of many, many GM automobiles. The crappy mechanical longevity of American made cars. Japan made us get better at making them. We should be thanking Japan that they started to eat our lunch and we took note and got better at our production quality. Now, the issue is with China. Friend, listen, I don't know how much life you've lived, but when you're the top dog, everyone wants to take you down a notch or two.

However, just as with Japan in the 70's, their imported goods to the U.S. and other parts of the world provided incomes and food for their families and today Japan is still a pretty solid manufacturing nation. China, with all of its billions of people just wants to come and sit at the economic table and personally, I don't see anything wrong with that or why we should deny them their place if they're willing to do the work. They aren't putting America out of work! We are still the largest economic powerhouse with the greatest per capita income of pretty much any nation on the planet...except for maybe Kuwait or Dubai.

As an owner of Ford and Honda cars, Honda still makes a higher quality vehicle. That's fine. Glad to see Honda has manufacturing in the US, aiding our economy and our people.

Listen, communism is a form of governance that really isn't what China is following economically. Their political machine may proclaim a type of communism, but they aren't really living true communism. True communism is pretty much dead. About the only place that really practices it is N. Korea and they're suffering every day because of it. No, I don't associate the movement of goods and services around the globe as supporting any particular type of government. Trust me, the people in other countries that buy American goods aren't buying because they support Democracy. There was a time that Russia practiced pretty hard line communism, but even they have softened on the communism part of what makes a government communist. Yes, they don't freely elect their leader, but then neither does Great Britain. China does elect a lot of their lower government officials, as does Russia. Russia holds parliamentary elections.

You can define communism in the classical marxist ideal, but that, without the destruction of human nature itself, can never be. So I will choose the definition that is actually practice, and that Orwell outlined in Animal Farm...the pigs walk upright in the end. China, Venezuela, and Vietnam (as examples) all are practicing communism.

So, I don't much concern myself with the name calling of governmental systems. Personally, I thought most of that died off with McCarthyism.

And yet we can call nations "wicked wicked?" What basis do we have to forego judgment on governments, but justify the same judgment of "nations?"
 
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RDKirk

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Again and again , people who complain about globalism and cry about jobs are lost and “we want all our jobs back” .. they just want to live in 1950s where a High School dropout can put some hard-honest work and became a “Master Machinist” and make $17 /h.

If you go to Coal Regions you will hear people say “ my granddaddy, my daddy worked in Coal mine and I want to work in Coal mine and make honest money and work hard like my daddy or grandaddy” . it sound so nice and honest. And your heart goes out to them. But

Sorry those days are over. This is 21st Century. You want the highest paying job in today’s market .. then go to University, get a Master. In 2021 you can’t just finish High School and think you will be “Master Machinist” and get paid highest salary like they did in 50s and think you will buy 4 bedroom house and a new Ford Truck. If you don’t re-invent and educate yourself and your children then only option is to “folding shirts at Old Navy”

We're going to run into a wall there, if we haven't already.

Most of the people in the country have average or below average intelligence. Most of the people in the country cannot get a Master's degree...unless that gets watered down to the point that it means no more than a high school diploma in the 60s.

There will always be a great many people with IQs in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, and even 100 who used to be able to earn a living wage. Most people have only an average IQ or less...

Even today, it takes a very bright person to do well with a college degree. Either people are bright enough at the front end to gain a difficult and lucrative academic degree or they're bright enough at the back end to make lucrative use of a less difficult academic degree (like my daughter has been able to make considerable hay in the corporate world with a journalism degree...but that's because she's been "smarter than the average bear" in how she's gained all the right experiences and parlayed them into advanced corporate positions).

The answer is not "just get your Master's degree" for the majority of people. If indeed technology and economics have advanced to the point that a person needs an above-average IQ to earn a living wage, we will have a great problem with the question of how to handle most of the population.

We're going to see either inarguable demands for high minimum wages for simple work, or a demand for a basic government minimum payment.
 
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Tiberius Lee

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That doesn't make any sense. We have the tools to do exactly as we wish to do in this day and age. We shouldn't pretend like it's an unreachable fantasy.

...The only thing stopping us is our strict adherence to what our party masters feed us.

Never believe them when they tell you your goals are unreachable...Impossible...Absurd...

If you and I can’t agree that this is 2021 and not 1950. I assume no point talking more complex issue like globalization.
 
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Tiberius Lee

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We're going to run into a wall there, if we haven't already.

Most of the people in the country have average or below average intelligence. Most of the people in the country cannot get a Master's degree...unless that gets watered down to the point that it means no more than a high school diploma in the 60s.

There will always be a great many people with IQs in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, and even 100 who used to be able to earn a living wage. Most people have only an average IQ or less...

Even today, it takes a very bright person to do well with a college degree. Either people are bright enough at the front end to gain a difficult and lucrative academic degree or they're bright enough at the back end to make lucrative use of a less difficult academic degree (like my daughter has been able to make considerable hay in the corporate world with a journalism degree...but that's because she's been "smarter than the average bear" in how she's gained all the right experiences and parlayed them into advanced corporate positions).

The answer is not "just get your Master's degree" for the majority of people. If indeed technology and economics have advanced to the point that a person needs an above-average IQ to earn a living wage, we will have a great problem with the question of how to handle most of the population.

We're going to see either inarguable demands for high minimum wages for simple work, or a demand for a basic government minimum payment.

I agree with your post and "just get your Master's degree” is not THE SOULTION for the country. Point is we need to invest, invent solution for 21st century. Not everyone will go to university and get a Masters, but there are other skills which doesn’t need significant education. I work in Healthcare industry where many jobs are good paying jobs and you don’t need University education. You can get 2 years training in healthcare or IT and make 60k a year.

Country like India and China invested a lot in education. India invested education in “Information Technology” back in 80s when hardly anyone used computers. In America when we talk about investing in education, the right go nuts and start screaming “ Free loaders” .

We can’t go back to 1950 and all “decent” , “good paying jobs” are in factory and all you need High School diploma. We need to re-invent, re-educate to meet the demand of this century.
 
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Landon Caeli

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If you and I can’t agree that this is 2021 and not 1950. I assume no point talking more complex issue like globalization.

Oookay... o_O

That ignores everything I just said. Getting people out of corral, and getting them to think for themselves is going to be no easy task.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Economic globalism is not a threat; it's always been an inevitability.

If a corporate entity can make more profits (and let us never forget that making profits is the corporations' raison d'être) by manufacturing in Malaysia than in Michigan... they're going to Malaysia. There's no legal or economic means to stop them.

Even with rampant wage theft in the US, it will always be more cost effective to outsource to some third world sweatshop where some 12-year old works 60-100 hours a week for pennies an hour because the sweatshop is still a better option than the brothel.

The US can't compete with that -- not without either elevating these nations out of their wretched financial situations, or lowering our own standards to be "competitive..." any takers?
 
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Landon Caeli

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Economic globalism is not a threat; it's always been an inevitability.

If a corporate entity can make more profits (and let us never forget that making profits is the corporations' raison d'être) by manufacturing in Malaysia than in Michigan... they're going to Malaysia. There's no legal or economic means to stop them.

Even with rampant wage theft in the US, it will always be more cost effective to outsource to some third world sweatshop where some 12-year old works 60-100 hours a week for pennies an hour because the sweatshop is still a better option than the brothel.

The US can't compete with that -- not without either elevating these nations out of their wretched financial situations, or lowering our own standards to be "competitive..." any takers?

There's no legal or economic means to stop them.

It's called Socialism, bro. Why should we let global Capitalists run the world..?
 
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Tiberius Lee

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Oookay... o_O

That ignores everything I just said. Getting people out of corral, and getting them to think for themselves is going to be no easy task.

I went back and read your post #87. I think I misunderstood you first time.

You are right, if we have a dream we should go for it no matter how hard it is. That is why we need to invest in education, invest in training and other skills so our citizen are ready for 21st century challenge It’s not going to be easy, but if we do that we can be ready for 2st century and get better job and better life.

Problem is no one wants to invent, no one wants to do the hard work.. what they want to do is “ my daddy worked at coal mine, I want to work in coal mine, bring my job back” . Sorry those days are over. That’s not “goal” , that is reminiscing of old days.
 
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Landon Caeli

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Guys, just like with biology and physics, different rules apply to Micro and Macro... People will need to drop their party platforms to understand this, and open your mind entirely.

always-keep-it-open-mind-brain-learning-illustration-T2F902.jpg
 
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Landon Caeli

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I went back and read your post #87. I think I misunderstood you first time.

You are right, if we have a dream we should go for it no matter how hard it is. That is why we need to invest in education, invest in training and other skills so our citizen are ready for 21st century challenge It’s not going to be easy, but if we do that we can be ready for 2st century and get better job and better life.

Problem is no one wants to invent, no one wants to do the hard work.. what they want to do is “ my daddy worked at coal mine, I want to work in coal mine, bring my job back” . Sorry those days are over. That’s not “goal” , that is reminiscing of old days.

Sometimes it's good to listen/learn. You're hardly scratching the surface of my posts.
 
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RDKirk

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I agree with your post and "just get your Master's degree” is not THE SOULTION for the country. Point is we need to invest, invent solution for 21st century. Not everyone will go to university and get a Masters, but there are other skills which doesn’t need significant education. I work in Healthcare industry where many jobs are good paying jobs and you don’t need University education. You can get 2 years training in healthcare or IT and make 60k a year.

Country like India and China invested a lot in education. India invested education in “Information Technology” back in 80s when hardly anyone used computers. In America when we talk about investing in education, the right go nuts and start screaming “ Free loaders” .

We can’t go back to 1950 and all “decent” , “good paying jobs” are in factory and all you need High School diploma. We need to re-invent, re-educate to meet the demand of this century.

The target moves quickly. In another five years we will see most computer programmers automated out of their jobs.
 
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