Do you want a globalist economy over a nationalist one?
- Thread starter 98cwitr
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Depends on where you sit:
As a consumer, I'd prefer a globalised economy. I have access to more and greater variety of goods, at lower prices.
As an employer, I'd prefer a globalised economy. I have access to more and better variety of workers, and a greater breadth of supply chain.
As a worker, I'm not sure. On one hand, I have to complete with a much wider labour pool. But on the other hand I'm not necessarily tied to a single country and can sell my labour to a wider pool of potential employers
As a corporation, I'd prefer a globalised economy. I have access to more workers, resources and friendly tax/regulatory regimes.
As a tax payer, I'd prefer a nationalised economy. That way companies can't get around local labour, environmental and taxation laws by offshoring, and can't 'race to the bottom' by outsourcing to cheaper labour nations.
As a consumer, I'd prefer a globalised economy. I have access to more and greater variety of goods, at lower prices.
As an employer, I'd prefer a globalised economy. I have access to more and better variety of workers, and a greater breadth of supply chain.
As a worker, I'm not sure. On one hand, I have to complete with a much wider labour pool. But on the other hand I'm not necessarily tied to a single country and can sell my labour to a wider pool of potential employers
As a corporation, I'd prefer a globalised economy. I have access to more workers, resources and friendly tax/regulatory regimes.
As a tax payer, I'd prefer a nationalised economy. That way companies can't get around local labour, environmental and taxation laws by offshoring, and can't 'race to the bottom' by outsourcing to cheaper labour nations.
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TLK Valentine
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Hi 98cwitr,
When you decry this 'globalist' economy, perhaps you forget that America started that idea. We literally built buildings with their foundations in New York City, NY, arguably one of the great financial and commercial centers of the world, and called them the World Trade Center. That was in 1973 that the towers were built, but the ideals that preceded their construction had been strong in America for decades before that. Toyota Motor Sales was formed in California in 1957. The Japanese were the first foreign nation to start pushing this globalization of markets.
We prideful Americans are just sore that the Chinese are eating our lunch at our own game. We get angered when people of other nations can do anything better than us. Why? Because we're so full of our own self-pride and aggrandizement. But look, the people of China, the people of India, people of Brazil and Russia and Great Britain and France, et.al., they have a right to their idea of production and how they want to sell and distribute their manufactured goods as we do. Their people have the same dreams of a life well lived and financially sustained through the work of their hands as Americans do. They all have the same red blood coursing through their veins and similar brains that think and devise and plot and plan as any American does.
Ford Motor Co., which is an American institution as companies go, sells their automobiles all across the globe. When's the last time you read of the U.S. buying Russian war munitions? Yet we export our war munitions all over the globe. Aren't we a peace loving bunch? I got this from a website touting America's top 10 exports:
However, the United States is still a force to be reckoned with as far as exports go. In 2017, for instance, America sent $1.45 trillion worth of goods and services abroad. That adds up to $4,500 of economic activity for every man, woman, and child in the country.
Did you catch that? You, yes you, sold $4,500 worth of goods to foreign countries in 2017. So, let me ask: When you preach this, 'let's stop buying goods on the global market', are you going to stop selling goods on the global market? I mean, let's do be fair here. If we're going to condemn other nations for selling their goods on our shores, wouldn't it only be fair that we stop selling our goods on theirs? I don't believe we could stop the globalization of markets even if we wanted to. We now have ships that are capable of carrying as many as 23,000 container units and these ships, along with hundreds of smaller ones, are constantly moving around the globe delivering the production of the nations all across the globe. Have you ever seen the daily activity at a large container port? The United States population would have to nearly double for us to produce all the goods that we would lose if we stopped globalization...or we'd have to seriously curtail our rampant consumerism. That likely wouldn't go over well to our financial bottom line.
It seems to me that a lot of those who condemn globalization do so with the false narrative that we're losing jobs for American workers. While in some specific industries that may be true, but overall, America has enjoyed a fairly low and stable unemployment rate throughout all of this. We have, in the last 20 years, imported greater and greater tons of foreign goods. Yet in those same years, accept for a few anomalies that are not trade related, enjoyed pretty stable employment for most all Americans that want a job.
So, the American ideal, as a capitalist free market society, is that we allow business to do what business feels is best to do in striving for profits. Harley Davidson gets to decide, as a business free from government intervention for the most part, where it wants to build plants to manufacture its products anywhere on the face of the earth, since its market isn't just America, but the world. It will make that decision based on costs and labor. Toyota, Nissan, Yamaha, BMW, Volkswagen and hundreds and hundreds of other companies that started out as foreigners to us, have invested billions of dollars right here on our shores. Opening company offices and manufacturing facilities here. Are we going to send them all packing when we decide to recall all American investment out there in other countries?
God bless,
Ted
When you decry this 'globalist' economy, perhaps you forget that America started that idea. We literally built buildings with their foundations in New York City, NY, arguably one of the great financial and commercial centers of the world, and called them the World Trade Center. That was in 1973 that the towers were built, but the ideals that preceded their construction had been strong in America for decades before that. Toyota Motor Sales was formed in California in 1957. The Japanese were the first foreign nation to start pushing this globalization of markets.
We prideful Americans are just sore that the Chinese are eating our lunch at our own game. We get angered when people of other nations can do anything better than us. Why? Because we're so full of our own self-pride and aggrandizement. But look, the people of China, the people of India, people of Brazil and Russia and Great Britain and France, et.al., they have a right to their idea of production and how they want to sell and distribute their manufactured goods as we do. Their people have the same dreams of a life well lived and financially sustained through the work of their hands as Americans do. They all have the same red blood coursing through their veins and similar brains that think and devise and plot and plan as any American does.
Ford Motor Co., which is an American institution as companies go, sells their automobiles all across the globe. When's the last time you read of the U.S. buying Russian war munitions? Yet we export our war munitions all over the globe. Aren't we a peace loving bunch? I got this from a website touting America's top 10 exports:
However, the United States is still a force to be reckoned with as far as exports go. In 2017, for instance, America sent $1.45 trillion worth of goods and services abroad. That adds up to $4,500 of economic activity for every man, woman, and child in the country.
Did you catch that? You, yes you, sold $4,500 worth of goods to foreign countries in 2017. So, let me ask: When you preach this, 'let's stop buying goods on the global market', are you going to stop selling goods on the global market? I mean, let's do be fair here. If we're going to condemn other nations for selling their goods on our shores, wouldn't it only be fair that we stop selling our goods on theirs? I don't believe we could stop the globalization of markets even if we wanted to. We now have ships that are capable of carrying as many as 23,000 container units and these ships, along with hundreds of smaller ones, are constantly moving around the globe delivering the production of the nations all across the globe. Have you ever seen the daily activity at a large container port? The United States population would have to nearly double for us to produce all the goods that we would lose if we stopped globalization...or we'd have to seriously curtail our rampant consumerism. That likely wouldn't go over well to our financial bottom line.
It seems to me that a lot of those who condemn globalization do so with the false narrative that we're losing jobs for American workers. While in some specific industries that may be true, but overall, America has enjoyed a fairly low and stable unemployment rate throughout all of this. We have, in the last 20 years, imported greater and greater tons of foreign goods. Yet in those same years, accept for a few anomalies that are not trade related, enjoyed pretty stable employment for most all Americans that want a job.
So, the American ideal, as a capitalist free market society, is that we allow business to do what business feels is best to do in striving for profits. Harley Davidson gets to decide, as a business free from government intervention for the most part, where it wants to build plants to manufacture its products anywhere on the face of the earth, since its market isn't just America, but the world. It will make that decision based on costs and labor. Toyota, Nissan, Yamaha, BMW, Volkswagen and hundreds and hundreds of other companies that started out as foreigners to us, have invested billions of dollars right here on our shores. Opening company offices and manufacturing facilities here. Are we going to send them all packing when we decide to recall all American investment out there in other countries?
God bless,
Ted
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What happens when my left shoe develops a fondness for chia pets? Both questions make about as much sense.
Economic and politic interests have ALWAYS been intertwined, on local, national and international scales.
Also, "Global economics" isn't a thing - and I say that having done my masters on a topic covering international trade (specifically the Royal Navy's role in developing the global shipping network).
There is a system of international rules regulating commerce and trade, but it's dominated by narrow national interest and is still mostly bilateral in nature. Look at, for instance, how the trade embargo of Iran was developed.
The WEF, IMF, WTO and other 'global' bodies are essentially policy formation and grievance hearing venues- but all the policies need to be agreed to by their member states. And, nothing is binding - they can't enforce ruling on their own, that's up to individual members to do. (Also, the US is really good at gaming the system - look at how many WTO cases go their way or get annulled during proceedings).
There's this weird hysteria/conspiracy mania around the "Great Reset", "Building Back Better" such and such. Having attended some of the actual IMF conferences, its mostly old men in very expensive suits, being talked at by slightly younger men and women in not as expensive suits, trying to make things that they've decided to do look better to the global media.
Now, if you want to talk about regulatory capture, THAT's a whole other story.
Have a look at, for instance, the probability of legislation going through based on the level of general public support vs special interest group support vs support from high net wealth individuals. (Spoiler - rich people are REALLY good at getting their interests looked after by politicians, the general public is really bad at it).
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True, and yet we see that in those times government regulation fostered American economy, rather than placate it.
"the people of China[...] have a right to their idea of production"
Why am I reading this as both a defense and promotion of communism? Is that your intent? You understand that the Chinese people live as publicly owned slave labor, making pennies per day, for the sake of the CCP's ability to play effective capitalism on a global market...I don't understand any promotion of that method.
Americans in the private sector are buying Russian ammo right now in our shortage. Recently, Biden funded both Hamas and Israel, then they started killing each other again. I agree, but our country isn't our government. I say again, our country are the principles upon her founding, and those we seek to uphold. I think those principles are just, even when those charged with upholding those principles both fail to do so and direly act to work against them. We get the Congress we voted for though.
Great! What was our profit margin on that?
I believe you may be missing the point here. Having a nationalist economy doesn't mean just outright stopping all foreign business. It means stopping practices that hurt the American economy, the American worker, and the American citizen. It's that simply put.
That statement is very far from the truth. Businesses are going under because people would rather sit on unemployment than take up a job after governors shut state economies down.
Yes and to your point, we need to simply stop doing business with communist countries IMO. The populist method is a collective but private boycott of all things made in China, Vietnam, and the like.
That ideal unfortunately isn't a reality, we're in a mixed economy now and have been since FDR.
Again, if these companies are helping (on the whole) the American economy, the American worker, and the American citizen, why would we?
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Tiberius Lee
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Webster does a better job
Definition of GLOBALISM
globalism
noun
glob·al·ism | \ ˈglō-bə-ˌli-zəm
\
Definition of globalism
: a national policy of treating the whole world as a proper sphere for political influence — compare imperialism, internationalism
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I have often considered that there is a form of political masochism that exists, where pandering to Chinese and other totalitarian narcissistic ideologies feels satisfying, or even arousing to some people.
...IMO, these people should redirect their interests away from politics.
...IMO, these people should redirect their interests away from politics.
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Most people don't realize how wonderful it is in North Korea, where everything is 100% free. Food, education, transportation, living conditions, all free.
...But when supplies get low, nobody has the individual right to fend for themselves, so they end up with Mass starvation, because of their total reliance on government.
...We can't afford to rely on other countries. Not in a country this large.
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Eh, nothing is free in this world. People go hungry, the education is propaganda, transportation is public, living conditions are quite poor by comparison. Just read an article by an escaped NK sex slave who made it to America only to find herself in a different kind of totalitarian nightmare. She's all over the (right-wing) news right now.
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I never said it does, but maybe others should consider that it happens too. Maybe more often than we might think.
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