Was the Crucifixion really on a Friday?

Der Alte

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Do we have information that his original writing said Sunday or did the translator interpret (First day of the week) as Sunday? I've seen this done before. I hope it is Sunday in the writing as that whole piece would lend weight to the possibility that Jesus was crucified in 32 AD on March 14 - Friday.
But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.
As for the day being "Sunday" here is the original Greek text.
τὴν δὲ τοῦ ἡλίου [sun] ἡμέραν [day] κοινῇ πάντες τὴν συνέλευσιν ποιούμεθα, ἐπειδὴ πρώτη ἐστὶν ἡμέρα, ἐν ᾗ ὁ θεὸς τὸ σκότος καὶ τὴν ὕλην τρέψας κόσμον ἐποίησε, καὶ Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς ὁ ἡμέτερος σωτὴρ τῇ αὐτῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἐκ νεκρῶν ἀνέστη· τῇ γὰρ πρὸ τῆς κρονικῆς [Saturn] ἐσταύρωσαν αὐτόν, καὶ τῇ μετὰ τὴν κρονικήν[Saturn], ἥτις ἐστὶν ἡλίου [Sun] ἡμέρα [day], φανεὶς τοῖς ἀποστόλοις αὐτοῦ καὶ μαθηταῖς ἐδίδαξε ταῦτα, ἅπερ εἰς ἐπίσκεψιν καὶ ὑμῖν ἀνεδώκαμεν.
A collection of diglot texts of Justin Martyr. - Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com
 
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cfposter

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The Hebrew calendar is a lunar calendar. The calendar wandered in as much as they had to adjust it every once in awhile, else the harvest no longer coincided with the day of Pentecost. We do not know the date Christ was crucified. According to John’s Gospel it was during the day of preparation for the Passover. No work is allowed during the Passover Seder.

In the case of the Passion week. The passover is sacrificed on the 14th day of the MONTH, This day is ALWAYS before the Feast of Unleavened Bread which is ALWAYS a Sabbath Day. So yes, that information above is correct as they often referred to the first Day of Unleavened Bread as the Passover feast or the Passover meal, as they did certainly eat the meal the night of the Feast Day.
 
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cfposter

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Is Christ any less the Christ if crucified on Tuesday afternoon at 1:23?

If some is claimed or proclaimed to be the Christ and crucified in the Afternoon such that is either when he entered the cross or died, then yes, that in my opinion would be a false Christ and a lie.
 
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cfposter

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But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.
As for the day being "Sunday" here is the original Greek text.
τὴν δὲ τοῦ ἡλίου [sun] ἡμέραν [day] κοινῇ πάντες τὴν συνέλευσιν ποιούμεθα, ἐπειδὴ πρώτη ἐστὶν ἡμέρα, ἐν ᾗ ὁ θεὸς τὸ σκότος καὶ τὴν ὕλην τρέψας κόσμον ἐποίησε, καὶ Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς ὁ ἡμέτερος σωτὴρ τῇ αὐτῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἐκ νεκρῶν ἀνέστη· τῇ γὰρ πρὸ τῆς κρονικῆς [Saturn] ἐσταύρωσαν αὐτόν, καὶ τῇ μετὰ τὴν κρονικήν[Saturn], ἥτις ἐστὶν ἡλίου [Sun] ἡμέρα [day], φανεὶς τοῖς ἀποστόλοις αὐτοῦ καὶ μαθηταῖς ἐδίδαξε ταῦτα, ἅπερ εἰς ἐπίσκεψιν καὶ ὑμῖν ἀνεδώκαμεν.
A collection of diglot texts of Justin Martyr. - Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

So it references at least the day of the SUN which would mean Sunday. So this is good. We can see clearly it is referring to Sunday.
 
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miamited

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Hi cfposter,

So the 3 days and 3 nights were the 11th, 12th, and 13th. Remember, Jesus had to be apprehended and kept apart starting the 10th day per Levitical law for the Passover Lamb. Therefore, you can see the Sign was a Spiritual message and those that are earthly will not understand it without a Prophet to give them understanding.

I'm not sure I understand your position. On the one hand it seems like you're trying to convince me that the sign of Jonah is some spiritual and not literal truth that Jesus called on to confirm his time being in the grave. Yet you then go on to say something about the 11th, 12th and 13th as being actual days that account for Jesus' words. Now, I'm familiar with the law of the Passover Lamb. He was to be chosen on the 10th day of the first month. He was to be cared for until the 14th day of the first month when the lamb would be slaughtered at twilight.

Jesus was chosen as the Lamb of God when he entered Jerusalem at the start of the week. Then four days later he was slaughtered. Still doesn't come to Friday. However, I'm in pretty serious disagreement with you about the '3 days and 3 nights' that Jesus alluded to from the days of Noah as being non-literal. Now, some might say that Jesus was chosen when Pilate sentenced him to death, but unfortunately that doesn't allow for four days of care until the slaughter.

We know that the Passover was a type of foretelling of the coming slaughter of Jesus, who the Scriptures do claim as our Passover Lamb. John even sees him in heaven looking as a lamb who has been slain. Just as God made it twilight when Jesus died, He also made Jesus' death meet the requirements for the choosing and slaughtering of the Passover Lambs that Israel had slaughtered for thousands of years. For me, I firmly believe by faith that Jesus was chosen on the 10th day of the first month of the year. That he was cared for until the 14th day of the first month. That he was then slaughtered at twilight and spent 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the earth. All in keeping with the declarations of the Scriptures.

God bless,
Ted
 
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cfposter

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Hi cfposter,



I'm not sure I understand your position. On the one hand it seems like you're trying to convince me that the sign of Jonah is some spiritual and not literal truth that Jesus called on to confirm his time being in the grave. Yet you then go on to say something about the 11th, 12th and 13th as being actual days that account for Jesus' words. Now, I'm familiar with the law of the Passover Lamb. He was to be chosen on the 10th day of the first month. He was to be cared for until the 14th day of the first month when the lamb would be slaughtered at twilight.

Jesus was chosen as the Lamb of God when he entered Jerusalem at the start of the week. Then four days later he was slaughtered. Still doesn't come to Friday. However, I'm in pretty serious disagreement with you about the '3 days and 3 nights' that Jesus alluded to from the days of Noah as being non-literal. Now, some might say that Jesus was chosen when Pilate sentenced him to death, but unfortunately that doesn't allow for four days of care until the slaughter.

We know that the Passover was a type of foretelling of the coming slaughter of Jesus, who the Scriptures do claim as our Passover Lamb. John even sees him in heaven looking as a lamb who has been slain. Just as God made it twilight when Jesus died, He also made Jesus' death meet the requirements for the choosing and slaughtering of the Passover Lambs that Israel had slaughtered for thousands of years. For me, I firmly believe by faith that Jesus was chosen on the 10th day of the first month of the year. That he was cared for until the 14th day of the first month. That he was then slaughtered at twilight and spent 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the earth. All in keeping with the declarations of the Scriptures.

God bless,
Ted

Great questions Ted. Hopefully, I can make my understanding translate better. First off we need to understand that Jesus only spoke earthly things to identify Spiritual things.

Mat_13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Luk_8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Joh_3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?


Jesus spoke earthly things to hide the matters from the earthly but to reveal them unto the Spiritual. So we must look at the sign of Jonah from a Spiritual perspective. The OBVIOUS earthly perspective would to conclude that it mean 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb.

Now let's go back and look at the passover lamb requirements:
Exo 12:3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:
Exo 12:4 And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.
Exo 12:5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
Exo 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

From those verses above as it relates to Jesus we have two things (at the least but emphasis here), we have apprehension, and confinement. We can see that on the 10th that Jesus must be Apprehended and "kept" which represents "confinement" until the 14th day.

So Jonah's sign is really applicable to this period of His Confinement. Jonah was CONFINED in the belly of the great fish for 3 days and 3 nights. This is where this relates to Jesus in the confinement. This makes the Passion week much more grevious than many people realize for our Lord and Savior. While many only have him confined the night before His Crucifixion, there is a much greater burden He actually carried. During that Confinement we see the ritual of the Day of Atonement sacrifice being carried out which was also on the 10th day of the month (albeit in the 7th month - there is a more reason for that to be explain hopefully in a later thread). But this fullfillment is necessary as the Sign of Jonah. Just know this if you think the sign is regarding 3 days and 3 nights in the Tomb, you have failed to understand the sign and looked at Jesus words from an Earthly perspective.
 
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Der Alte

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In the case of the Passion week. The passover is sacrificed on the 14th day of the MONTH, This day is ALWAYS before the Feast of Unleavened Bread which is ALWAYS a Sabbath Day. So yes, that information above is correct as they often referred to the first Day of Unleavened Bread as the Passover feast or the Passover meal, as they did certainly eat the meal the night of the Feast Day.
1 ULB conicides with Passover. The first day of Unleavened Bread is not a Sabbath and is never called a Sabbath in either testament. It is called a solemn convocation. Preparing and cooking food are prohibited on the Sabbath but are specifically permitted on 1/7 ULB.
Exodus 12:15-16
15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.


 
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HARK!

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The first SLIVER of Light that the month incurred BEGAN the night of 3/20/33.

How do you know this? NASA can't predict on what day the first sliver will be visible to this day. In addition, when was the barley abib in 33 AD? Why do you suppose that it was the year 33? What calendar was being used at that time for this account. It wasn't the Hillel II. Was it the calendar of the sons of light; or was it of the sons of darkness, both, neither? The answer to that question raises even more questions. I don't mean to take the wind out of your sails; but you have just begun to scratch the surface of this subject.

I have files and files from decades of study on this subject; but with all of the information that I've collected, I am much more certain that I don't know the date.
 
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cfposter

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How do you know this? NASA can't predict on what day the first sliver will be visible to this day. In addition, when was the barley abib in 33 AD? Why do you suppose that it was the year 33? What calendar was being used at that time for this account. It wasn't the Hillel II. Was it the calendar of the sons of light; or was it of the sons of darkness, both, neither? The answer to that question raises even more questions. I don't mean to take the wind out of your sails; but you have just begun to scratch the surface of this subject.

I have files and files from decades of study on this subject; but with all of the information that I've collected, I am much more certain that I don't know the date.

Great questions. I'm using an astronomy program called Stellarium which is accurate in producing the paths of our visible sky.

I don't know when the ABIB was in 33 AD, I just know that the passover lamb had to be sacrificed on the 14th day of the month and 3 April is not that day.

I don't suppose it was the year 33 AD. I actually suppose it was the year 32 AD.

I'm completely interested in what you want to share. I welcome your analysis and findings the subject but be prepared that I will be critical where I find difference. But don't think that is because I discount them but let's work towards understanding the TRUTH together.
 
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cfposter

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1 ULB conicides with Passover. The first day of Unleavened Bread is not a Sabbath and is never called a Sabbath in either testament. It is called a solemn convocation. Preparing and cooking food are prohibited on the Sabbath but are specifically permitted on 1/7 ULB.
Exodus 12:15-16
15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.


I disagree with this. Specially, I disagree that the First Day of the Day of Unleavened Bread is NOT a sabbath. I know that every First day of the Unleavened Bread IS a Sabbath. Philo and others understood this as well and he was from the period of Jesus crucifixion.
 
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miamited

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Hi cfposter,

Just for clarification: Jesus did not 'only' speak of earthly things to identify Spiritual things. A lot of his words were actual real words meant to convey the actual real meaning of those words. Yes, there were times that Jesus spoke in parables and generally the Scriptures tell us when he was doing that.
First off we need to understand that Jesus only spoke earthly things to identify Spiritual things.

In your quote of Matthew, if you read it carefully, it specifically mentions that it was to this gathered crowd that it is claimed that Jesus spoke only in parables. He did not, in all of his ministry for 3+ years only speak in parables to people. In fact, at a couple of points in speaking to his disciples, he actually explained for them the Spiritual context of a specific parable. When he told the adulterous women to go and sin no more, he was not speaking to her a parable. When he spoke to the woman at the well and knew all about her, he was not speaking to her in parables. There are hundreds of words recorded that Jesus spoke that were not parables, but actual facts concerning issues and events that were going on.

In your quote of John 3:12 Jesus clearly says that he has spoken to some of earthly things. He then questions, because of their lack of understanding of real and true earthly issues, that they would be hard pressed to understand spiritual things.

I realize that your theological position sounds like it must be true, but I'm afraid that it isn't. I believe that a clear reading of the gospel accounts of Jesus' words would belie the truth of your claim.

From those verses above as it relates to Jesus we have two things (at the least but emphasis here), we have apprehension, and confinement. We can see that on the 10th that Jesus must be Apprehended and "kept" which represents "confinement" until the 14th day.

So Jonah's sign is really applicable to this period of His Confinement. Jonah was CONFINED in the belly of the great fish for 3 days and 3 nights. This is where this relates to Jesus in the confinement. This makes the Passion week much more grevious than many people realize for our Lord and Savior. While many only have him confined the night before His Crucifixion, there is a much greater burden He actually carried. During that Confinement we see the ritual of the Day of Atonement sacrifice being carried out which was also on the 10th day of the month (albeit in the 7th month - there is a more reason for that to be explain hopefully in a later thread). But this fullfillment is necessary as the Sign of Jonah. Just know this if you think the sign is regarding 3 days and 3 nights in the Tomb, you have failed to understand the sign and looked at Jesus words from an Earthly perspective.

I'm going to have to stand on the side of lack of understanding by your definition.

God bless,
Ted
 
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HARK!

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Great questions. I'm using an astronomy program called Stellarium which is accurate in producing the paths of our visible sky.

I don't know when the ABIB was in 33 AD, I just know that the passover lamb had to be sacrificed on the 14th day of the month and 3 April is not that day.

I don't suppose it was the year 33 AD. I actually suppose it was the year 32 AD.

I'm completely interested in what you want to share. I welcome your analysis and findings the subject but be prepared that I will be critical where I find difference. But don't think that is because I discount them but let's work towards understanding the TRUTH together.

Depending on when the barley was abib, Pesach can be shifted by a month.

A clue to when Yahshua was slaughtered, is discovering in what year he was born. I have files and files on this subject too; but again, no definitive answer.

Because of the moons elliptical orbit, and varying atmospheric conditions, the visual sighting of the first sliver can be off by days in relationship to the conjunction.

No one knows the day nor the hour.
 
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HARK!

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I don't suppose it was the year 33 AD. I actually suppose it was the year 32 AD.

Why 32? How old was Yahshua upon his execution?

This source "might" provide a clue:




The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus tells us that Herod died shortly after an eclipse of the moon (Antiquities of the Jews, Book XVII, Chapter VI, end of 4th paragraph), but prior to Passover (Wars of the Jews, Book II, Chapter I, paragraph 3.). This is an extremely important bit of information, because astronomers today know that there were eclipses of the moon on the following dates:

A total eclipse on March 23rd, 5 BC at 8.52 pm.
A partial eclipse on March 13th, 4 BC at 4.04 am.
A total eclipse on January 10th, 1 BC at 1.35 am.

Historians have determined, on this and other evidence, that King Herod apparently died in the Spring of what we now call 4 B.C. (Julian year 4710), probably early in the Jewish month of Nisan (April), after the partial eclipse of the moon occurring on March 13th, 4 B.C. If you will recall, Herod lived long enough after Jesus' birth to order the slaughter of the infants in Bethlehem, in an attempt to murder Jesus-


http://www.biblelight.net/year.htm

I'm sorry. I created that file back in 2016. That link no longer takes me to the article.

I posted what I feel is the most valuable information from the article; but I'll add this important sentence:

"This would suggest that Jesus was born in either 5 or 6 B.C.."
 
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The Righterzpen

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@cfposter

So your question has to do with what is the "sign of Jonah" and how that fits into the "3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth"?

Well, after studying some things in the Bible; I stumbled across some interesting things. This may answer some of your questions.

Atonement Time Table:

Daniel 9:27 says "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week and in the middle of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease…" Now a lot of Bible commentators ascribe this to a 7 year tribulation. Which is true that this passage ascribes to a tribulation; but that tribulation is (as stated here) "for one week".

BUT - when we start looking at the gospels, we see some interesting things:

1. We have Mary anointing Jesus's feet "6 days before the Passover". This occurred on the Friday (Thursday after sundown) prior to the sabbath that fell the day before the triumphant entry into Jerusalem. The seventh day would have been the day of the crucifixion.

Verse 24 of Daniel 9 says that "70 weeks are determined upon the people and upon the holy city…." Verse 27 states that this ends on "the consummation". The next time table we are given is "three score and two weeks" (62 weeks). Than another 8 weeks to the consummation. The "consummation" is Pentecost. 70 weeks before that is the death of John the Baptist. 62 weeks from the death of John the Baptist, going toward Pentecost is the Friday before the crucifixion.

This lands us right were we started - 6 days before the Passover with Mary and anointing Jesus's feet. Jesus states (of this event) that "she has reserved this against the day of my burial". This commences what is called in the Scripture "the great tribulation".

2. Three days later, oil was poured over Jesus's head. He states this is done for his burial. (His burial commenced that night.) 3 days and 3 nights later he's dead. This is the "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth". This event falls on the heels of the last day he spends in the temple teaching. That day, he spent explaining to the people the destruction of the Jewish religion and warned them of future events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem. By the time we get to 70 AD (destruction of the temple) and 93 AD (Herod Agrippa II dies); we have the end of the nation. Jesus also makes some references to judgement day at the end of time; but states that he does not know when that will happen.

3. Within the context of the discussion of the dismantling of the old testament system and the destruction of Jerusalem, Jesus talks about the tribulation. He says that it will be cut short, because if it is not cut short, no flesh would be saved.

So the tribulation commences with Mary anointing Jesus's feet and ends at the Passover. (It's cut short by a little less than a day.) So what happens at the end of the Passover? Jesus is confronted with the angel of death. Exodus says the angel of death will pass through the land at midnight.

Where is Jesus at midnight? He's in Gethsemane.

Now what is Gethsemane? A Gethsemane is a cave that houses an olive press. There were several Gethsemane(s) around the mount of olives because it was an olive grove and this is where they crushed the olives to make oil for the lamps in the temple. Contrary to popular belief "Gethsemane" was not a garden. Jesus was in a garden before he ends up in Gethsemane, but Gethsemane was not a garden. Now they went into this cave to escape the cold, because a lot of people stayed in these caves as lodging during the passover.

So, what happens while Jesus is in this Gethsemane? He's confronted with an angel. (Luke 22:43). Now the English says this angel "strengthens him" but the Greek actually says the angel "shows a display of strength (or force) before (against) him".

Next question: How is Jesus acting before he encounters this angel and how does he act after?

Jesus says "My soul is swallowed up in death…." and just prior to this he becomes "exceedingly sorrowful". This "sorrowfulness" is a process that's been happening for a couple of days now. It started Tuesday night after being "anointed for burial" and becomes progressively worse until the night of Passover.

So if the breath of life is what makes a person "a living soul"; all the angel of death has to do is remove the breath of life and the person dies. Now Jesus is confronted with the angel of death, but he doesn't physically die. Why is this? This is because of his Divine nature. Now if he didn't have a Divine nature, at this point he would have been physically dead; but since the Divine nature has yet to be severed from the human nature, he's still alive. For all intent and purpose though, his soul has been severed from his personhood; reserved in Sheol to await the death of his body. This is where he "preached to spirits in prison". (1 Pete 3:19) Also Acts 2:27 & 31 say "you have not left my soul in hell, nor will suffer your holy one (body) to see decay.

The next event to happen is the arrest, trial, beating, Peter's denial (3 AM), Pilate, Herod, Judas returns money to the temple is told "See too it yourself." Pilate, Barabbas, Pilate washes his hands before the public. Tells the public "See too it yourselves." The people say "Let his blood be on us and our children." (6 to 7 AM), condemnation, Judas goes and hangs himself, flogging, mocking, crucifixion (9 AM), sun darkened (noon), death, veil rent (3 PM), burial (before sundown), Saturday The Sabbath, resurrection (3 AM Sunday morning).

So from the point of the encounter with the angel of death, Jesus's soul is rent from his personhood. He goes through all the following events till just before his death pretty much emotionless.

The Crucifixion:

There are four things recorded that Jesus utters just before he dies, but of those 4 phrases the first one that is quasi comprehendible to anyone witnessing this is "Eli Eli lama sabach thani.". The priests think he's calling Elisha. The second phrase "I thirst." was probably only heard by the soldiers and is stated that he said this because he recognized "all had been accomplished". At that point he's given vinegar and hyssop; (which is a mild sedative); which he drinks. Prior to this he'd been given vinegar and sour wine, which he'd refused.

The next two phrases "Into your hands I commend my spirit" and "It is finished" are recorded for us as interpretations of what is intended, yet to the people witnessing this, it looks like delirious screaming. The Greek indicates that the noise Jesus makes sounds like the screeching of a crow. (He's breaking down cognitively at this point because his personhood is being destroyed.) Keep in mind that the sun is still darkened and has been darkened for about 3 hours.

Which phrase came first is unclear from the text, because the sequence is derived from combining the accounts in two different gospels. The "it is finished" is followed by "bowed the head"; which appears to be the last thing that happened.

The last thing recorded to occur just before death is "yielding up the ghost (or spirit)". The language here is interesting because the word "yielding" is most commonly translated as "betrayed" (turned over). The "spirit" that's being "betrayed" is defined as "his spirit". This is not a reference to the Holy Spirit because it would have been phrased differently if it was.

So this "spirit" appears to be the human component that "houses" conscious awareness of God and if "it is finished" was a reference to a spiritual awareness of being forsaken; it would make sense that "betray" (his) "spirit" would be the last conscious act Jesus would surrender to before the Divine nature is rent from the human body, thus causing his death. The veil in the temple was rent top to bottom simultaneously with Jesus dying; so thus I think is the symbolic indicator of his Divinity "torn" from his body.

Now returning for a minute to the phrase concerning the tribulation being shortened or no flesh would be saved. The tribulation ended with the encounter of the angel of death. That was the shortening there of.

Right after this angel departs, comes Judas and the posse to arrest Jesus. Peter pulls out his sword (this is actually the second time this happens) and whacks off the ear of the high priest's servant. The first time this happens (this was the first encounter in the winter garden) Jesus heals this servant. The second time this happens (in Gethsemane) he doesn't. Now is this the same servant who had his ear cut off twice? I don't know. If it is though, this would give some credence as to why Jesus didn't heal him again. The name of the servant given in John is Malchus. This is the Greek version of the Hebrew name Melek; which means "king".

After this, Jesus turns to Peter and says: "Do you think that I can not pray to my Father (right now) and he will send me more than 12 legions of angels? But how than should the Scripture be fulfilled? So this is how it must be." This clues us in on the fact that Jesus is aware that he doesn't have to do this. He could call it quits and go back to heaven and that would be the end of it; thus no flesh would be saved. This hearkens back to Jesus praying if this cup could pass from him; "Not my will but Yours be done".

Keep in mind that Jesus's soul has already been severed from his personhood and is in Hades. The fact that this happened is a mercy to the rest of us, because what Jesus is indicating here; is that if this hadn't happened, he would have quit because the process of being forsaken was more than his soul could deal with. Now at this point, it does not seem to me that Jesus is consciously aware of what his soul is "feeling"; although he is aware of what happened to it.

So in turn this could be why the English translators said this angel "strengthened" him; because in a round about way that's exactly what happened. He was strengthened through the death of his soul.

So what happened when Jesus died?

His soul was delivered from hell, joined his spirit (that he'd "betrayed") and in his human nature he stood before the Father as proof that he'd made it out of this ordeal without sinning. Revelation 5 - He's the lamb slain who appears in heaven to open the seals.

Jeremiah 30 talks about the "time of Jacob's trouble". This is also equated to in eschatological speak as "the tribulation". What is important to note about what Jeremiah says concerning Jacob's trouble is that "Jacob" is delivered from them on account of his own obedience.

Matthew 24:29-31 talks about what happens "immediately after the tribulation". Sun darkened, moon does not give light - this happened from noon to 3 PM on the day of the crucifixion. The stars fall from heaven and the powers of heaven are shaken. This is probably a reference to not just the severance of the two natures; but in that process Jesus the man is forsaken by the rest of the Godhead; and because of what he/He was created as, this is why the powers of heaven are shaken.

The next verse: "They shall see the sign of the son of man in heaven…" This is something that entities in heaven are looking down upon. Thus probably why the sun was darkened and the moon did not give it's light. The creatures on earth can not see into heaven, but the entities in heaven can see what's going on down on earth; and what they are looking at is the crucifixion. They are watching Jesus die is what's going on.

How do we know this is what it means by "sign of the son of man in heaven"? Jesus makes a reference speaking to the Pharisees about "A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sigh, but the only sign given it will be the sign of the prophet Jonah; whereas Jonah was in the wale's belly 3 days and 3 nights, so shall the son of man be in the heart of the earth." Now we know when this happened. The 3 days and 3 nights started sundown teusday and ended when Jesus died Friday afternoon. So the only public display that occurred to this "wicked and adulterous generation" was the crucifixion.

The next part of this verse: "..then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." This verse is not talking about the return of Christ to earth; it's talking about the ascension into heaven upon his death. The tribes of the earth that mourn are all the unregenerate souls who are in Sheol and see this happen. Once Jesus leaves Sheol all the redeemed on the old testament side of the cross go with him. They got their 'ticket to ride' - there they go! Revelation picks this up as: "a multitude that no man could number who came out of great tribulation." This is the "first resurrection over which the second death has no power". This first resurrection also includes those who come after, who live and die in the interim between Pentecost and judgement day.

Interestingly to note too is that these are "of every kindred, tribe, tongue and nation". They aren't just Israelites from the old testament side of the cross. These are people from around the globe; which explaining how people can be redeemed based on the testimony of creation alone, without ever having heard Scripture, is the subject of a whole other Bible study.

So that's what all that means and it's all taking place from the perspective of what is witnessed in the spiritual realm in both directions; earthly souls looking up and heaven looking down.
 
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cfposter

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Hi cfposter,

Just for clarification: Jesus did not 'only' speak of earthly things to identify Spiritual things. A lot of his words were actual real words meant to convey the actual real meaning of those words. Yes, there were times that Jesus spoke in parables and generally the Scriptures tell us when he was doing that.


In your quote of Matthew, if you read it carefully, it specifically mentions that it was to this gathered crowd that it is claimed that Jesus spoke only in parables. He did not, in all of his ministry for 3+ years only speak in parables to people. In fact, at a couple of points in speaking to his disciples, he actually explained for them the Spiritual context of a specific parable. When he told the adulterous women to go and sin no more, he was not speaking to her a parable. When he spoke to the woman at the well and knew all about her, he was not speaking to her in parables. There are hundreds of words recorded that Jesus spoke that were not parables, but actual facts concerning issues and events that were going on.

In your quote of John 3:12 Jesus clearly says that he has spoken to some of earthly things. He then questions, because of their lack of understanding of real and true earthly issues, that they would be hard pressed to understand spiritual things.

I realize that your theological position sounds like it must be true, but I'm afraid that it isn't. I believe that a clear reading of the gospel accounts of Jesus' words would belie the truth of your claim.



I'm going to have to stand on the side of lack of understanding by your definition.

God bless,
Ted
 
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cfposter

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Hi cfposter,

Just for clarification: Jesus did not 'only' speak of earthly things to identify Spiritual things. A lot of his words were actual real words meant to convey the actual real meaning of those words. Yes, there were times that Jesus spoke in parables and generally the Scriptures tell us when he was doing that.


In your quote of Matthew, if you read it carefully, it specifically mentions that it was to this gathered crowd that it is claimed that Jesus spoke only in parables. He did not, in all of his ministry for 3+ years only speak in parables to people. In fact, at a couple of points in speaking to his disciples, he actually explained for them the Spiritual context of a specific parable. When he told the adulterous women to go and sin no more, he was not speaking to her a parable. When he spoke to the woman at the well and knew all about her, he was not speaking to her in parables. There are hundreds of words recorded that Jesus spoke that were not parables, but actual facts concerning issues and events that were going on.

In your quote of John 3:12 Jesus clearly says that he has spoken to some of earthly things. He then questions, because of their lack of understanding of real and true earthly issues, that they would be hard pressed to understand spiritual things.

I realize that your theological position sounds like it must be true, but I'm afraid that it isn't. I believe that a clear reading of the gospel accounts of Jesus' words would belie the truth of your claim.



I'm going to have to stand on the side of lack of understanding by your definition.

God bless,
Ted

Hi Ted,

Since we are speaking of clarification as you stated. Then let's make it clear:

Mat_13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

So as you can see, Jesus didn't speak without parable except unto those He called and chose.
 
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cfposter

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Depending on when the barley was abib, Pesach can be shifted by a month.

A clue to when Yahshua was slaughtered, is discovering in what year he was born. I have files and files on this subject too; but again, no definitive answer.

Because of the moons elliptical orbit, and varying atmospheric conditions, the visual sighting of the first sliver can be off by days in relationship to the conjunction.

No one knows the day nor the hour.

Well now your contradicting the writing of Enoch. For he said in the writings of the luminaries that the equilux was when the day was equal with the night.

So we can know the time of when a New Year (per the solar calendar starts).

I read recently where a scholar concluded that the days of Abid was concluded by the same meaning of what exodus meant. It meant a going forth. So for example, it would mean when the Barley had seed going forth would coincide with when the Israelite were going forth from Egypt. I take the same understanding.
 
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cfposter

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Why 32? How old was Yahshua upon his execution?

This source "might" provide a clue:




The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus tells us that Herod died shortly after an eclipse of the moon (Antiquities of the Jews, Book XVII, Chapter VI, end of 4th paragraph), but prior to Passover (Wars of the Jews, Book II, Chapter I, paragraph 3.). This is an extremely important bit of information, because astronomers today know that there were eclipses of the moon on the following dates:

A total eclipse on March 23rd, 5 BC at 8.52 pm.
A partial eclipse on March 13th, 4 BC at 4.04 am.
A total eclipse on January 10th, 1 BC at 1.35 am.

Historians have determined, on this and other evidence, that King Herod apparently died in the Spring of what we now call 4 B.C. (Julian year 4710), probably early in the Jewish month of Nisan (April), after the partial eclipse of the moon occurring on March 13th, 4 B.C. If you will recall, Herod lived long enough after Jesus' birth to order the slaughter of the infants in Bethlehem, in an attempt to murder Jesus-


http://www.biblelight.net/year.htm

I'm sorry. I created that file back in 2016. That link no longer takes me to the article.

I posted what I feel is the most valuable information from the article; but I'll add this important sentence:

"This would suggest that Jesus was born in either 5 or 6 B.C.."

Great questions. But if Jesus' ministry was 3.5 years as it seems to be and if He started that ministry around the time of the year that Tiberius reigned at 15 years then we are looking at 32 or 33 AD. Another person who wrote the site at the Bethlehemstar.com had found that there is a writing of Josephus that concluded that Herod died in 1BC. Considering that it is possible that this correlates with the Biblical accounts as a weightier matter.
 
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Well now your contradicting the writing of Enoch. For he said in the writings of the luminaries that the equilux was when the day was equal with the night.

So we can know the time of when a New Year (per the solar calendar starts).

I read recently where a scholar concluded that the days of Abid was concluded by the same meaning of what exodus meant. It meant a going forth. So for example, it would mean when the Barley had seed going forth would coincide with when the Israelite were going forth from Egypt. I take the same understanding.

...and so we are left with more questions. This was what I was talking about when I mentioned the war between the sons of light and the sons of darkness. What calendar were the imposters, posing as the Temple Priests, using to calculate Pesach? Which calendar were Yahshua and the Apostles using? Could a difference in calendars used by these two groups account for what might seem to be a conflict in the gospel accounts?
 
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