How to walk in the Spirit.

Sidon said:

You dont establish your own righteousness., as that is Legalism you are constantly defining as your faith.

Righteousness, You receive it from God as the Blood Atonement....."the Gift of Righteousness".

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Well, yeah, as I’ve been insisting. It’d be impossible to have any righteousness and practice it unless God gives that to us. Once He does so, however, we must practice it, whether we see ourselves as righteous, or not. I’d still prefer you don’t respond unless you read my posts.

Sidon said:

To be under the law is to have a broken faith, or a false faith, that teaches that you are to keep the law, because you are save, when in fact, Paul teaches you are "dead to the law"., and "Christ has redeemed you from the curse of the Law".

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So far, so good.

Sidon said:

God is the Holy Spirit, he's not the Unholy Spirit.
See those 2 types?
Keep looking, till you do.

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You have a habit of putting your own words into other people's mouths and then disagreeing with them! I've never once mentioned an Unholy Spirit, whatever that's supposed to be - these are your words alone and form part of the private language you have invented for yourself.

Again, God is not the Holy Spirit. He is "God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit". I suggest, rather than defensively batting aside everything people are trying to tell you, to reflect on what they say and ask yourself whether you can learn something. You may still disagree, which is fine, but at least listen to what they actually say - don't make up what they say so that it fits in with your prepared counterarguments that you immediately fire off.

fhansen said:

Well, yeah, as I’ve been insisting. It’d be impossible to have any righteousness and practice it unless God gives that to us. Once He does so, however, we must practice it, whether we see ourselves as righteous, or not. I’d still prefer you don’t respond unless you read my posts.

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So does that mean if we don't practice it, we don't have it? But we do have it because God gives it. This is still not quite coming completely together for me.

MMXX said:

So does that mean if we don't practice it, we don't have it? But we do have it because God gives it. This is still not quite coming completely together for me.

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Even if we somehow fulfilled the law perfectly on our own, we would still not be righteous until we were actually made righteous, or just, by God, until we were justified IOW. This is because true righteousness and any righteous acts that follow can only come from the inside, and that internal righteousness can only come from Him. Again, Christianity is all about who we are, not about who we pretend to be (legalism), or in who we see ourselves as. Mere external right actions can be motivated by many things, fear, desire to impress men and/or God, etc. But when they’re motivated from the inside, from a heart of flesh that Gods given us (Ex 26), when they’re motivated by love to put it best, then our actions are truly righteous.

And this justified state is the beginning of our journey to salvation. The will of man is never overridden and he can still turn back away from God, he can fail to love, he can oppose love. He can live more like a child of the devil instead of God. He can compromise and destroy his relationship with God and therefore his justified state. Or he can love, he can produce much fruit, he can be Gods hands. It’s a matter of what we do with what we’ve been given, and the story isn’t over until the Judge renders His decision even though we can pretty well know that we’re His to the degree that we loved Him and neighbor and acted accordingly, with fruit that made that obvious.

And this gift of righteousness is meant to grow, as it’s exercised. For example, the more we resist some temptation or another, the stronger we become at resisting, with grace leading to and resulting in more grace yet.

fhansen said:

Even if we somehow fulfilled the law perfectly on our own, we would still not be righteous until we were actually made righteous, or just, by God, until we were justified IOW. This is because true righteousness and any righteous acts that follow can only come from the inside, and that internal righteousness can only come from Him. Again, Christianity is all about who we are, not about who we pretend to be (legalism), or in who we see ourselves as. Mere external right actions can be motivated by many things, fear, desire to impress men and/or God, etc. But when they’re motivated from the inside, from a heart of flesh that Gods given us (Ex 26), when they’re motivated by love to put it best, then our actions are truly righteous.

And this justified state is the beginning of our journey to salvation. The will of man is never overridden and he can still turn back away from God, he can fail to love, he can oppose love. He can live more like a child of the devil instead of God. He can compromise and destroy his relationship with God and therefore his justified state. Or he can love, he can produce much fruit, he can be Gods hands. It’s a matter of what we do with what we’ve been given, and the story isn’t over until the Judge renders His decision even though we can pretty well know that we’re His to the degree that we loved Him and neighbor and acted accordingly, with fruit that made that obvious.

And this gift of righteousness is meant to grow, as it’s exercised. For example, the more we resist some temptation or another, the stronger we become at resisting, grace leading to and resulting in more grace yet.

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I agree with what you say but how would you describe the love we can have for God? Are there any similarities or differences compared to the love we have for other people? And a follow up question should you choose to accept it: what does the "as you love yourself" mean in the second commandment to love others as yourself?

Hmm said:

I agree with what you say but how would you describe the love we can have for God? Are there any similarities or differences compared to the love we have for other people? And a follow up question should you choose to accept it: what does the "as you love yourself" mean in the second commandment to love others as yourself?

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Yes, there are similarities between the love we have for God and that we have for other people. We know when we love someone. We know what that means, in regard to our intentions for them, and we know how it feels. But the love we have for God is more fleeting in this life because we don't "have" Him here so closely as we do with people, even though He's right here, in us and in our midst.

We meet Him more directly, though, the more we believe, and act on that belief through the love, for neighbor, that comes from Him with that faith. He reveals Himself more and more to us as we do His will and the more we know Him, the more we love Him-that literally cannot be helped- even as our pride and the things of this world continue seeking to pull and keep us down into their realm of vanity and futility. He wants us to look up, and keep looking there. And He can even reveal Himself so directly that you'll know in that moment a love and peace so profoundly deep and ineffable and exalting that you couldn't remain standing in its presence; it's simply that overwhelming. At His discretion, for His purposes. Meanwhile life remains hard, challenging, filled with pain, joy, suffering, beauty, pleasure, tests, sin etc. We'll never be fully satisfied until we meet Him "face to face". Then we'll know as we're fully known.

Just some thoughts on love of neighbor as ourselves. Whether we think we’re the greatest thing in the world or the worst, we probably still feed ourselves before we feed an even hungrier neighbor. But what we do “for the least of these” we do for God; expressing love for neighbor is a primary way that we show love for God. It means that we already know there’s something “bigger” and more important than just me or the attractions of this world-and we show that by our actions, by that love.

And while there are times for honest and healthy self-scrutiny and conviction of sin, most of those times when we think we’re the lowest form of life on earth we are actually, generally speaking, dealing with too much self-love, “inordinate self-love” as Aquinas put it: pride IOW. And this is because we’re way too concerned with ME in those moments, and failing to look up. When we esteem ourselves too highly we’re concerned with ME and how I look to the world, and when we esteem ourselves too lowly we’re often as not still concerned with ME and how I look to the world, still based on pride, and not the humility it may seem to be. Again, just some thoughts.

Sidon said:

To be under the law is to have a broken faith, or a false faith, that teaches that you are to keep the law, because you are save, when in fact, Paul teaches you are "dead to the law"., and "Christ has redeemed you from the curse of the Law".

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Redeemed from the curse of the law is not the same as redeemed from the law.

Clare73 said:

How do the following 12 Pauline texts explicitly fit into your "Teaching"?
". . .be holy in all you do; for it is written: 'Be holy, because I am holy--Lev 11:44-45.' "
(1 Peter 1:15-16)
". . .called to be holy" (1 Corinthians 1:2)
". . .slaves to sin which leads to death. . .slaves to obedience which leads to righteousness." (Romans 6:16)

"Just as you used to offer parts of your body in slavery to impurity, so now
offer your body in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness." (Romans 6:19)

Now that you have. . .become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness. (Romans 6:22)

". . .let us purify ourselves from everthing that contaminates body and spirit,
perfecting (completing) holiness out of reverence for God. (2 Corinthians 7:1)

"Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)"
(Ephesians 5:9)

". . .pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness." (1 Timothy 6:11)

". . .pursue righteusness, faith, love and peace. . ." (2 Timothy 2:22)

". . .all Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for. . .training in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:16)

"God disciplines us for our good that we may share in his holiness. . . discipline produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it." (Hebrews 12:10-11)

"die to sin and live for righteousness" (1 Peter 2:24)

"everyone who does what is right has been born of him." (1 John 2:29)

"he who does what is right is righteous. . .he does what is sinful is of the devil," (1 John 3:7)

"Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!" (Romans 6:1)

"Do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desire." (Romans 6:12)

"Do not offer the parts of your body to sin. . .Offer them to God as instruments of righteousness." (Romans 6:13)

"Without holiness, no one will see the Lord." (Hebrews 12:14)

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Sidon said:

Another Straw-man post, void of quotes.

Like i told you a few days ago. Ask me a question, vs, just ranting your commentaries.

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Same long-time unanswered question as in my post quoted above:

How do the 12 Pauline texts in my post quoted above explicitly fit into your teaching?
.

fhansen said:

Yes, there are similarities between the love we have for God and that we have for other people. We know when we love someone. We know what that means, in regard to our intentions for them, and we know how it feels. But the love we have for God is more fleeting in this life because we don't "have" Him here so closely as we do with people, even though He's right here, in us and in our midst.

We meet Him more directly, though, the more we believe, and act on that belief through the love, for neighbor, that comes from Him with that faith. He reveals Himself more and more to us as we do His will and the more we know Him, the more we love Him-that literally cannot be helped- even as our pride and the things of this world continue seeking to pull and keep us down into their realm of vanity and futility. He wants us to look up, and keep looking there. And He can even reveal Himself so directly that you'll know a love and peace so profoundly deep and ineffable and exalting that you couldn't remain standing in its presence; it's simply that overwhelming. At His discretion, for His purposes. Meanwhile life remains hard, challenging, filled with pain, joy, suffering, beauty, pleasure, tests, sin etc. We'll never be fully satisfied until we meet Him "face to face". Then we'll know as we're fully known.

Just some thoughts on love of neighbor as ourselves. Whether we think we’re the greatest thing in the world or the worst, we probably still feed ourselves before we feed an even hungrier neighbor. But what we do “for the least of these” we do for God; expressing love for neighbor is a primary way that we show love for God. It means that we already know there’s something “bigger” and more important than just me or the attractions of this world-and we show that by our actions, by that love.

And while there are times for honest and healthy self-scrutiny and conviction of sin, most of those times when we think we’re the lowest form of life on earth we are actually, generally speaking, dealing with too much self-love, “inordinate self-love” as Aquinas put it: pride IOW. And this is because we’re way too concerned with ME in those moments, and failing to look up. When we esteem ourselves too highly we’re concerned with ME and how I look to the world, and when we esteem ourselves too lowly we’re often as not still concerned with ME and how I look to the world, still based on pride, and not the humility it may seem to be. Again, just some thoughts.

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That's a great answer, thanks. Lots to think about there.

Ligurian said:

Jezekiel 28 is prophetic future. The LXX that Jesus quotes makes this very clear. And Esaias 14 is the same... in fact, it makes my case even stronger that the Assyrian of Libanus factors into end times. (thank you for pointing this out to me)

Daniel and Revelation are clearly speaking of the same event... which is also prophetic future. In fact, that woe in Revelation 12:12 is the third of 3 woes tied directly to the last 3 trumpets. With these time-stamps, and the connection of the beast from the sea... no, the accuser is still free to come and go from Heaven, at this point in time.

Jude and the Peter letters... they don't match any of the four quoted sections above. What doesn't fit, I have no choice but to set aside. I have no idea what other people do with these things. But Jesus quotes from Daniel just 10 verses after Michael's war in Heaven, and He personally authored the Revelation.

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Honestly I tend to shy away from most of the prophetic areas because they always seem a bit ambiguous to me.