CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?
- Thread starter LoveGodsWord
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You can repeat it all you like. That does not make your words magically come true however. Do you believe that God's Church is the body of Christ? If you say yes then Israel being the Church in the new covenant is the body of Christ. Scriptures already provided. What is it you do not believe?
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Already done so through the scriptures and the linked posts here. Do you believe that God's Church is the body of Christ? If you say yes then Israel being the Church in the new covenant is the body of Christ. Scriptures already provided. What is it you do not believe?
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Guojing
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I have already stated my argument to you why the Body of Christ is separate from True Israel.
True Israel/Israel of God (Galatians 6:16) refers to the little flock out of the nation Israel that believe, those that are pastored by James the brother of Jesus, at the end of Acts.
They continue to stay zealous to the Law of Moses, even after they believed in Christ as their Messiah (Acts 21:18-25, James 2:24-26, 1 John 2:29, 1 John 3:7).
The rest of the nation Israel has fallen in disbelief (Acts 7:51, Romans 11:1-5)
As a result of the fall of the nation of Israel, salvation without the Law of Moses (Romans 4:5), is now open to everyone, Jew and gentiles, thru Paul's gospel of grace (Romans 11:11).
All Jews and gentiles who thus believe in Paul's gospel, found in 1 Cor 15:1-4, are now in the Body of Christ, where there is neither Jew nor gentile.
But the Body of Christ is not the same as the little flock. They are 2 separate groups of believers.
I have broken up my argument into short paragraphs to make it easy for you to understand, which paragraph do you disagree with?
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GenemZ
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Being a born again Jew I find your position hard to grasp....
A Jew became a true Jew only after having believed in the Lord God of Israel. Like Abraham and King David ,,, Moses, etc.
The problem was? The Jews at that time in the early days of the church age his were claiming to be the true children of God, and treating many in the church like "goyim."
Paul was explaining that for that to be the case (true children of God) they would have to be born again... thus, nullifying the Jews right to crow spiritual superiority. For, anyone who is in Christ is a "new creation." There is neither Jews nor Gentile in Christ.
Therefore, the Jews who believe during the Church age will cease to be counted as Jews by God..
If there is anything else you are trying to clarify? Please make it known.
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Where in anything have you posted here does it say anywhere that Gods' true Israel in the new covenant is not God's Church? It doesn't. On the other hand all the scriptures you have ignored here and in the linked posts provided show that God's Israel in the new covenant are all those who are not born of the flesh but of the Spirit. You seem to be unwilling to answer my questions asked of you.
Do you believe that God's Church is the body of Christ? If you say yes then Israel being the Church in the new covenant is the body of Christ. Scriptures already provided. What is it you do not believe?
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Not sure why you are finding it hard to understand. According to the scriptures, those who are born of the flesh are no longer Gods' true Israel in the new covenant. God's Israel in the new covenant are all those who are now born of the Spirit according to the promise by believing and following Gods' Word (Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 2:28-29 etc)
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If you are not a part of Gods' Israel in the new covenant according to the scriptures you have no part in God's new covenant promise which is to Israel (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27). Gentile believers are now grafted in, in place of Jewish unbelievers *Romans 11:13-27). You do not have to answer the questions asked of you if you do not want to. Just say so. I will leave it between you and God to work through.
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Guojing
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Come to think of it, there is actually a significant difference between True Israel and the Body of Christ that I have mentioned in my argument, that you might have missed
True Israel
They continue to stay zealous to the Law of Moses, even after they believed in Christ as their Messiah (Acts 21:18-25, James 2:24-26, 1 John 2:29, 1 John 3:7).
Body of Christ
As a result of the fall of the nation of Israel, salvation without the Law of Moses (Romans 4:5), is now open to everyone, Jew and gentiles, thru Paul's gospel of grace (Romans 11:11).
So that is one difference. I suppose you would disagree?
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No. Did you actually read any of my posts or the scriptures in them? Your post here suggests you didn't.
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Your interpretation of God's Israel in the new covenant is not biblical. Gods' true Israel are not those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but all those who are born of the Spirit according to the promise..
Romans 9:6-8 [6], Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: [7], Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called.[8], That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
*see also Romans 2:28-29 and Galatians 3:28-29
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Guojing
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I have presented the following scripture (Acts 21:18-25, James 2:24-26, 1 John 2:29, 1 John 3:7) to show that True Israel still had to follow the Law.
Which one do you have a different interpretation?
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None of those scriptures talk about God's true Israel in the new covenant. - Not one.
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Guojing
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That was not my point.
But if its your point, then I will say the New Covenant will be made with the entire nation of Israel, after the latter believe in Jesus as their Messiah, at the end of the Tribulation. (Hebrews 8:8-12). The nation of Israel's sins will be forgiven during that time (Romans 11:25-27)
As I have stated, currently, the nation of Israel is fallen in the eyes of God (Romans 11:11)
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It seems you do not understand who God's true Israel is according to the scriptures. If your interested in the origin of God's Israel in the old and who God's Israel is in the new covenant follow these links through here...
1. ORIGIN OF ISRAEL AND THE 12 TRIBES linked
2. MEANING OF THE NAME OF GOD'S ISRAEL linked
3. GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT IS GOD'S CHURCH linked
4. GENTILES ARE NOW GRAFTED IN WITH GOD'S ISRAEL linked
Hope this is helpful
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Guojing
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We are just disagreeing in our interpretation of scripture.
The difference between us is that I am willing to say that is my interpretation of scripture.
But for you, you insist you are not interpreting scripture, but rather you insist it is what scripture objectively says, no matter the responses you get that tell you scripture is not exactly saying what you are trying to make them say.
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No problem. I will leave you with all the scriptures provided in the linked posts that you are quoting from in your last post. They are Gods' Words not mine. You of course are free to believe as you wish. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to the scriptures *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.
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