My Finch Challenge

Status
Not open for further replies.

HTacianas

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2018
8,509
9,011
Florida
✟325,000.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Why didn't Darwin's finches convince Darwin that all men are equal?

Ditto for the peppered moth.

If these two "icons of evolution" weren't strong enough to do that, what in nature was?

The notion that all men are created equal is a philosophical idea. It's not scientific.
 
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Why didn't Darwin's finches convince Darwin that all men are equal?

Ditto for the peppered moth.

If these two "icons of evolution" weren't strong enough to do that, what in nature was?
Seeing all men as equal to
yourself is an issue of character, not science. (Besides, the finches change back and peppered moths don’t land on trees anyway.)
 
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
And so was religion. And birthplace.
Anything that could be used was and is used to justify racism.
True. Similar to today’s rallying cry to justify attacking other sovereign nations.
 
Upvote 0

Occams Barber

Newbie
Site Supporter
Aug 8, 2012
6,299
7,454
75
Northern NSW
✟990,440.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Divorced
Why didn't Darwin's finches convince Darwin that all men are equal?

Ditto for the peppered moth.

If these two "icons of evolution" weren't strong enough to do that, what in nature was?

(Studies of the peppered moth were done in the 1950s well after Darwin's death.)

While Darwin may have harboured some of the racial thinking prevalent in his day he was strongly in favour of abolition and deplored slavery. His experience of slavery came first hand from experience in South America during the voyage of the Beagle.

These are a couple of extracts from his personal correspondence.

Some few, & I am one, even wish to God, though at the loss of millions of lives, that the North would proclaim a crusade against Slavery. In the long run, a million horrid deaths would be amply repaid in the cause of humanity. — Great God how I should like to see that greatest curse on Earth Slavery abolished.
— Charles Darwin, 5 June 1861, to Asa Gray

But I will not write on this subject [of slavery]; I shd. perhaps annoy you & most certainly myself. — I have exhaled myself with a paragraph or two in my Journal on the sin of Brazilian slavery… My few sentences, however, are merely an explosion of feeling. How could you relate so placidly that atrocious sentiment about separating children from their parents; & in the next page, speak of being distressed at the Whites not having prospered; I assure you the contrast made me exclaim out. — But I have broken my intention, & so no more on this odious deadly subject.
— Charles Darwin, 25 August 1845, to Charles Lyell

OB
 
Upvote 0

Norbert L

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 1, 2009
2,856
1,064
✟560,360.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Why didn't Darwin's finches convince Darwin that all men are equal?

Ditto for the peppered moth.

If these two "icons of evolution" weren't strong enough to do that, what in nature was?
I never heard about Darwin's connection to eugenics. Is there one? Anyhow academia goes off course, knowledge isn't the answer for everything. The more things change the more they remain the same. Finches are Finches and it can't get more equal than that.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
(Studies of the peppered moth were done in the 1950s well after Darwin's death.)

While Darwin may have harboured some of the racial thinking prevalent in his day he was strongly in favour of abolition and deplored slavery. His experience of slavery came first hand from experience in South America during the voyage of the Beagle.

These are a couple of extracts from his personal correspondence.

Some few, & I am one, even wish to God, though at the loss of millions of lives, that the North would proclaim a crusade against Slavery. In the long run, a million horrid deaths would be amply repaid in the cause of humanity. — Great God how I should like to see that greatest curse on Earth Slavery abolished.
— Charles Darwin, 5 June 1861, to Asa Gray

But I will not write on this subject [of slavery]; I shd. perhaps annoy you & most certainly myself. — I have exhaled myself with a paragraph or two in my Journal on the sin of Brazilian slavery… My few sentences, however, are merely an explosion of feeling. How could you relate so placidly that atrocious sentiment about separating children from their parents; & in the next page, speak of being distressed at the Whites not having prospered; I assure you the contrast made me exclaim out. — But I have broken my intention, & so no more on this odious deadly subject.
— Charles Darwin, 25 August 1845, to Charles Lyell

OB
Interesting that he appeals to God. Also, history records that he did nothing whatsoever about slavery. Nothing. The title of his non-peer reviewed book had an original title later edited as it used “favored races” in it. He was not referring to humans but still it had to edited.

The christians worked to end slavery because we see God creating all men equal. This would not come from the evolutionary theory. Quite the opposite actually.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,351
10,606
Georgia
✟911,824.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Why didn't Darwin's finches convince Darwin that all men are equal?

Ditto for the peppered moth.

If these two "icons of evolution" weren't strong enough to do that, what in nature was?

I thought the peppered moth story had been faked with pinned-on moths to tell a "good story" but was not actually an observed fact in nature when it comes to natural selection.

Just so no lone gets the idea I am expressing my POV again - here is the link

Talk:Peppered moth - Wikipedia.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: AV1611VET
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I thought the peppered moth story had been faked with pinned-on moths to tell a "good story" but was not actually an observed fact in nature when it comes to natural selection.

Talk:Peppered moth - Wikipedia.
That was my understanding but it’s still in textbooks as though it’s true.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Tanj

Redefined comfortable middle class
Mar 31, 2017
7,682
8,316
59
Australia
✟277,286.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
The christians worked to end slavery because we see God creating all men equal. This would not come from the evolutionary theory. Quite the opposite actually.

The other Christians started slavery then fought a war to keep it because they didn't see God creating all men equal. That would not come from evolutionary theory. Quite the opposite actually.
 
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The other Christians started slavery then fought a war to keep it because they didn't see God creating all men equal. That would not come from evolutionary theory. Quite the opposite actually.
What christians started slavery?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
No, it's an established fact. He only lost his faith late in his life after the early death of his daughter.
Calvinists and OSAS believers will tell you that he then was never one.

What evidence establishes this as a fact? I think the diary leans the decision the other way.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.