Question for people who reject intercessory with Saints

dóxatotheó · Jun 10, 2021

JulieB67 said:
They don't explain what I asked you. I said, why not go directly to our Father if you need help with sin, etc?

You can go directly to God, we just ask for intercession as they are present with God and it pleases God to intercede with eachother. All prayers are directed to God not the saints.

JulieB67 said:
Christ told us that's who we go to in prayer.

All prayers are directed to the Father not the saints.

JulieB67 said:
He taught us how to pray. To add anything else would be adding to the scriptures.

I agree is why all prayers are directed to the Father not the saints.

JulieB67 said:
ou said Protestant Christians don't understand. I'm a non denominational Christian

Define what you mean by non-denom because protestantism definition to me are people who reject apolostolic churches.

JulieB67 said:
that holds to the scriptures- the Word, nothing added by man, etc. Men's traditions make void the true word of God.

If the traditions void the Word we wouldn't accept it. Is why throughout history of our faith is we debated and defended the faith from man-made traditions that did voided the faith; you should study Christianity and not just the bible because you will understand more about our faith and what is the correct way to interpret our infallible word.

JulieB67 said:
Then what's the point of praying to a saint?

We dont pray to the saint i been getting that across to you multiple times.

JulieB67 · Jun 10, 2021

dóxatotheó said:
We dont pray to the saint i been getting that across to you multiple times.

Not when you keep making statements like this
These are your words,

dóxatotheó said: ↑
In fact, every prayer to a saint really goes to the Person behind the saint: Christ Jesus

I bolded it because that does mean in fact you are praying to a saint. If not, what do these words mean that I've bolded?

dóxatotheó said:
Define what you mean by non-denom because protestantism definition to me are people who reject apolostolic churches.

I reject any church that has doctrine that can't be backed up in God's Word. That's even why I left my own Baptist church years ago. I'm a scripture person first and foremost, have been for over 20 years ago when I left the church. I'm not anti church- I'm anti "man's tradition over the Bible.

You started this thread and wanted to know why some of us are against this doctrine and to me, it goes against how Christ taught us to pray and just how important the veil being torn from top to bottom really means. In the OT only the high priest could go behind the holy of holies and intercede for us. But that veil being torn means we don't need to go that route anymore. We can go straight to the Father in Christ's name for anything.

dóxatotheó · Jun 10, 2021

JulieB67 said:
Not when you keep making statements like this
These are your words,

That was a response to you and your strawman of my belief.

JulieB67 said:
I bolded it because that does mean in fact you are praying to a saint. If not, what do these words mean that I've bolded?

Read the sentence after

because misconstruing a sentence is disrespectful. I put that because thats what you interpret my belief as.

JulieB67 said:
I reject any church that has doctrine that can't be backed up in God's Word.

explicitly being stated in Gods word doesn't bring a catechism

JulieB67 said:
That's even why I left my own Baptist church years ago. I'm a scripture person first and foremost, have been for over 20 years ago when I left the church. I'm not anti church- I'm anti "man's tradition over the Bible.

Your interpretation of scripture doesn't make a historic tradition made over the bible. Also, you really think we don't have scripture for our beliefs I already put scripture in earlier threads defending my position.

JulieB67 said:
You started this thread and wanted to know why some of us are against this doctrine and to me, it goes against how Christ taught us to pray

Blatantly false, it does not go against Christ in anyway. Also, I started this thread to respond and see why your against it.

JulieB67 said:
. In the OT only the high priest could go behind the holy of holies and intercede for us.

In the OT angels also interceded for us read Job and I wouldn't go and say that.

JulieB67 said:
But that veil being torn means we don't need to go that route anymore.

Than why in 5 epistles in the bible it urges intercession.

JulieB67 said:
We can go straight to the Father in Christ's name for anything.

I agree is why intercession with the saints are directed to Christ not the saints. Which I pointed out to the literal quoted bolded sentence you tried to misconstrue to create a response when I literally stated the prayers are towards Christ not the saints.

prodromos · Jun 10, 2021

JulieB67 said:
You started this thread and wanted to know why some of us are against this doctrine and to me, it goes against how Christ taught us to pray and just how important the veil being torn from top to bottom really means. In the OT only the high priest could go behind the holy of holies and intercede for us. But that veil being torn means we don't need to go that route anymore. We can go straight to the Father in Christ's name for anything.

Just so I know where you stand, you NEVER ask anyone else to pray for you?

JulieB67 · Jun 11, 2021

prodromos said:
Just so I know where you stand, you NEVER ask anyone else to pray for you?

Not to someone who's already with the Father, no.

prodromos · Jun 11, 2021

JulieB67 said:
Not to someone who's already with the Father, no.

So you aren't being consistent. You argue that we can go directly to God, and yet you still ask others to pray for you. Why?

JulieB67 · Jun 11, 2021

prodromos said:
and yet you still ask others to pray for you. Why?

Because when we ask others in person on the earth to pray, they are going directly to God as well.

How would you describe talking to a saint that's no longer on the earth? When we start talking to other people in Heaven you are placing them in an spot that's reserved only for our Father. Again, Jesus taught us how to pray, why would we need to stray from that?

Valletta · Jun 11, 2021

JulieB67 said:
They don't explain what I asked you. I said, why not go directly to our Father if you need help with sin, etc? Christ told us that's who we go to in prayer. He taught us how to pray. To add anything else would be adding to the scriptures. You said Protestant Christians don't understand. I'm a non denominational Christian that holds to the scriptures- the Word, nothing added by man, etc. Men's traditions make void the true word of God.

Then what's the point of praying to a saint?

God tells us to pray for each other, His ways are far above our ways:

First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions and thanksgivings be offered for everyone, for kings and for all in authority, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all devotion and dignity. This is good and pleasing to God our savior, who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth. For there is one God. There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus, himself human, who gave himself as ransom for all. 1 Tim 2:1-6

JulieB67 · Jun 11, 2021

Valletta said:
God tells us to pray for each other

I know this and don't have a problem with us on the earth praying for each other. But it's talking to people that have already passed away and are in Heaven at this point. There's no scripture for this and again, I follow Christ and his example on how to pray.

Not David · Jun 15, 2021

bbbbbbb said:
First, of course, Paul was referring to saints living on earth and talking physically with each other, not some dead saints who were transformed into demi-gods. Second, why bother praying to dead folks who may or may not actually be able to intercede with God when we have the assurance that Jesus Christ is seated at God's right hand, interceding for His saints forever?

It looks like you should learn more about theosis rather than trashing the Saints

Placemat · Jul 8, 2021

dóxatotheó said:
We see saints as Christians who are in the presence of God of course all Christians are saints nobody disagrees lol. I pray to God directly how many times i gotta say we pray to God not the saints they only intercede for us.

Stop strawmaning my position I clearly don't hold to that make better arguments because I already refuted that multiple times. We pray to God only not saints they intercede for us as the same I intercede for you all intercessory prayers are directed towards God not the saints we bring up the saints to intercede for us but we still direct the prayers towards God by the grace of God they intercede for us they arent gods.

Anybody who believes intercessory prayer would tell you they pray directly towards God they only ask for intercession if they need help in regards to sins etc. as the same way i would ask for your intercession for my struggles there is no difference they all end with direction to God not the saints so all intercessory prayers are towards God not the saints.

Except for these:
Orthodox prayers to Mary:

maryhttp://www.orthodoxmom.com/2012/08/03/prayers-to-the-theotokos-for-every-day-of-the-week/

Not David · Jul 9, 2021

Placemat said:
Except for these:
Orthodox prayers to Mary:

maryhttp://www.orthodoxmom.com/2012/08/03/prayers-to-the-theotokos-for-every-day-of-the-week/

Thanks! I know what prayers to do for each day.

bbbbbbb · Jul 20, 2021

Not David said:
Thanks! I know what prayers to do for each day.

Curiously, I don't "do" prayers, whether daily or otherwise. How does one "do" prayers?

Not David · Jul 21, 2021

bbbbbbb said:
Curiously, I don't "do" prayers, whether daily or otherwise. How does one "do" prayers?

You are overthinking

bbbbbbb · Jul 21, 2021

Not David said:
You are overthinking

I am perplexed. I asked a simple question and then you dodged it by telling me that I am overthinking.

Not David · Jul 21, 2021

bbbbbbb said:
I am perplexed. I asked a simple question and then you dodged it by telling me that I am overthinking.

Yes.

Ligurian · Aug 1, 2021

dóxatotheó said:
You can go directly to God, we just ask for intercession as they are present with God and it pleases God to intercede with eachother. All prayers are directed to God not the saints.

All prayers are directed to the Father not the saints.

I agree is why all prayers are directed to the Father not the saints.
Define what you mean by non-denom because protestantism definition to me are people who reject apolostolic churches.

Some protestants are against the papacy, and don't know any apostolic churches.

bbbbbbb · Aug 2, 2021

Ligurian said:
Some protestants are against the papacy, and don't know any apostolic churches.

And many Catholics are against Protestantism and don't know any Protestant churches. Ignorance, in both cases, is really quite unhelpful.

Eloy Craft · Aug 5, 2021

bbbbbbb said:
First, of course, Paul was referring to saints living on earth and talking physically with each other, not some dead saints who were transformed into demi-gods. Second, why bother praying to dead folks who may or may not actually be able to intercede with God when we have the assurance that Jesus Christ is seated at God's right hand, interceding for His saints forever?

I think you are ignoring the fact that light casts shadows. That Jesus is a king and light of the world. There is no hiding in the presence of Jesus. When you need a favor from a king someone closer to him is helpful or even necessary.

bbbbbbb · Aug 5, 2021

Eloy Craft said:
I think you are ignoring the fact that light casts shadows. That Jesus is a king and light of the world. There is no hiding in the presence of Jesus. When you need a favor from a king someone closer to him is helpful or even necessary.

Absolutely correct. Therefore, Jesus is our great high priest who always lives to make intercession for His people. Please read the book of Hebrews for a glorious description of our Lord Jesus Christ.

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