The Two Sides of the Coin of Faith

Bible Highlighter · Jun 8, 2021

misput said:
Good deeds will follow faith, if not, there is no faith

Agreed.

You said:
but salvation is by faith, not deeds

While we are not saved by “Works ALONE” without God's grace (Ephesians 2:8-9), deeds or works after we are saved by God's grace is a part of our faith.

For Galatians 5:6 says, “faith which worketh by love.”
Paul says in context within Galatians:

“For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Galatians 5:13-14).

So we have to love our neighbor (i.e. faith that works by love).
There is no other kind of faith that does not work by love.

Anyways, here are some quick points in how faith has another side to it besides just a belief.

There is...

#1. The “work of faith” (1 Thessalonians 1:3) (2 Thessalonians 1:11).
#2. The “obedience to the faith” (or obedience of the faith) (Romans 1:5) (Romans 16:26).
#3. The “service of your faith” (Philippians 2:17).
#4. The word “faithful.” (Appears 54 times in KJB in the New Testament).
#5. Providing not for our own (an immoral action) denies the faith (1 Timothy 5:8).

You said:
because even our deeds are not perfect even though they make our faith perfect. James says works makes our faith perfect, not that our works are perfect. Does anyone believe their works are perfect? For that matter, does anyone believe their faith is perfect unless grace is supplied?

Revelation 3:2 says, “Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.”

James 1:4 says, “But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.”

Hebrews 13:21 says, “Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.”

Faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
This means works is a part of a living and breathing saving faith.
In James 2:18, James says he will show you his faith by his works. This is how we show faith. No works or deeds and there is no faith. For James 2:24 says we are justified by works and not by faith alone. Yet, most of evangelical Christianity teaches against what James 2:24 plainly says.

RickReads · Jun 8, 2021

misput said:
Good deeds will follow faith, if not, there is no faith but salvation is by faith, not deeds because even our deeds are not perfect even though they make our faith perfect. James says works makes our faith perfect, not that our works are perfect. Does anyone believe their works are perfect? For that matter, does anyone believe their faith is perfect unless grace is supplied?

I believe the Lord will reward everyone according to their deeds and that eternal life is unattainable except as a gift. It cannot be earned.

Highlighter believes he is perfect, he is providing Jesus the necessary assist, thus saving himself and that anyone who does not believe in works for salvation is a sinner who is living in lasciviousness per the book of Jude.

misput · Jun 8, 2021

RickReads said:
I believe the Lord will reward everyone according to their deeds and that eternal life is unattainable except as a gift. It cannot be earned.

Highlighter believes he is perfect, he is providing Jesus the necessary assist, thus saving himself and that anyone who does not believe in works for salvation is a sinner who is living in lasciviousness per the book of Jude.

I agree and yet it is so obvious no ones faith or works is perfect without the grace of God is supplied we wonder how anyone who truly examines themself and the scripture can not understand. I think it may have to do with literalism. Oh well, thank God He forgives our ignorance also.

RickReads · Jun 8, 2021

misput said:
I agree and yet it is so obvious no ones faith or works is perfect without the grace of God is supplied we wonder how anyone who truly examines themself and the scripture can not understand. I think it may have to do with literalism. Oh well, thank God He forgives our ignorance also.

Highlighter is hardly a literalist. He tries to hide it with his volume but I find him injecting things to suit his views on a routine basis.

Bible Highlighter · Jun 9, 2021

RickReads said:
I believe the Lord will reward everyone according to their deeds and that eternal life is unattainable except as a gift. It cannot be earned.

But this belief or statement is contradictory to Scripture.

“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

You said:
Highlighter believes he is perfect,

Jesus said we would be accused falsely (Matthew 5:11-12). Again, I already stated that I believe that not all sin is the same. There are sins that lead to punisment in earthly courts and there is a sin that leads to punishment in hellfire (See: Matthew 5:22 in the AMP or NASB). Meaning, there is sin that does not lead to punishment in hell, and there is sin that does lead to punishment in hell. If a believer commits sin that the Bible warns with warnings of hellfire and condemnation, they need to confess and forsake this sin in order to have mercy. For Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. To forsake sin is to leave it behind and not to visit it again. It is to overcome it. Again, I am talking in context to overcoming sins that lead to condemnation or hellfire. Not all sins lead to one being condemned to hell. Just believe the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:22.

You said:
he is providing Jesus the necessary assist,

I believe Jesus works inside a believer to do good works and that they cannot do anything without Jesus (See: John 15:5, and Philippians 2:13). So this would be a false accusation on your part.

You said:
thus saving himself

Peter said at Pentecost, “Save yourselves from this untoward generation.” (Acts of the Apostles 2:40).
Untoward means perverse. See the definition here at the 1913 Webster's Dictionary.

You said:
and that anyone who does not believe in works for salvation is a sinner who is living in lasciviousness per the book of Jude.

I did not come up with this idea. God's Word did. Again, check out the following points taken from Scripture. For after we are saved by God's grace...

We are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).
Faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
A person can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16).
Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God, and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28).
Those who have done good, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, shall come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29).
We have to continue in His goodness, otherwise we can be cut off [just like the Jews were cut off] (Romans 11:21-22).
Helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to inheriting the Kingdom (Matthew 25:34-40), and not helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to going away into everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:41-46).
Whoever does not righteousness or does not love his brother is not of God (1 John 3:10).
Whoever does what Jesus says is likened unto a wise man who built his house upon the rock, and when a storm came, it did not fall, (Matthew 7:24-25), but the person who does not do what Jesus says is likened unto a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).
Abiding in Jesus will bear much fruit, but if a person does not abide in Jesus [thereby being unfruitful], they are cast out [or cut off] like a branch to be burned in the fire (John 15:5-6).
If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing (1 Peter 4:18-19).
Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14) (NKJV).

Bible Highlighter · Jun 9, 2021

misput said:
I agree and yet it is so obvious no ones faith or works is perfect without the grace of God is supplied we wonder how anyone who truly examines themself and the scripture can not understand. I think it may have to do with literalism. Oh well, thank God He forgives our ignorance also.

I supplied you with verses that talk about how works can be perfect. Your non-acceptance of what the Bible says on this point does undo what the Bible plainly states. Oh, and while I do read the Bible literally in most cases, this is not always the case. I believe many Christians today do not understand what happened in Noah's tent in the story of Noah and Ham because they do not understand the biblical metaphors used in that story.

Biblical Metaphors Shed Light on Ham's Sin in Noah's Tent.

Bible Highlighter · Jun 9, 2021

RickReads said:
Highlighter is hardly a literalist.

Again, this appears to be a false accusation without any real hardcore proof. Please show post #'s of mine to prove your case that I do not read Scripture literally or plainly. If anything you have not explained numerous verses to me that I do read plainly or literally.

You said:
He tries to hide it with his volume but I find him injecting things to suit his views on a routine basis.

Again, you need to back up your claims by pointing out actual post #'s and explaining why you are right with Scripture. Just saying so does not make it true.

RickReads · Jun 9, 2021

The problem is that I do not feel led to spend valuable time analyzing your posts. The passage below may explain it best though I know you cannot comprehend it.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Bible Highlighter · Jun 10, 2021

RickReads said:
The problem is that I do not feel led to spend valuable time analyzing your posts. The passage below may explain it best though I know you cannot comprehend it.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Notice the context. Romans 3:1. It says what advantage does the Jew have? What profit is there in circumcision?

Notice the verse brings up the Jews. What was the problem with the Jews? They did not accept the grace of Jesus Christ and they made it all about the Law of Moses (with little to no grace) (See: Luke 18:9-14). Notice that the verse brings up circumcision, too. It asks the question, what profit is there in circumcision? Paul said this because certain Christians were being deceived into thinking that they had to be circumcised in order to be saved (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24). For Paul says in Galatians 5:2 that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. So obviously either some or many of the Galatian believers were falsely thinking they had to be circumcised in order to be saved. This is why Paul speaks of the entrace gate to salvation by faith in Jesus and His grace. Paul is not talking about continued salvation by the Sanctification Process. He is concerned for the Roman believers to understand the importance of God's grace through faith because of the Jews trying to deceive them into trying to be circumcised to be saved.

The deeds of the Law that Paul talks about is the 613 Laws of Moses. The false way (Which Paul is attacking) is a person trying to be justified by the Law ALONE without God's grace. This is why Paul is talking this particular way. In Romans 6, Paul asks the question: “Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?” Paul answers with, “God forbid.” (See: Romans 6:1-2). Paul says in Romans 7:6 that “...we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.” What is the oldness of the letter? It's the Torah (i.e. the 613 Laws of Moses).

Notice also verse 27 (Romans 3:27). Paul says boasting is excluded by the Law of faith. So faith is referred to as a Law. But Paul says, “...whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.” (Galatians 5:4). So obviously the Law of Faith was not what he was referring to. Meaning, when Paul spoke negatively of the Law, he was not referring to ALL laws in general. For he commends the Law of faith. Paul is concerned with with the entrance gate to salvation and our foundational salvation. This is the kind of faith he is referring to here in context. Faith has two sides to it depending on the context of what you are reading in the Bible.

Where do you think the word faithful comes from? It comes from the word faith obviously. Yet, when we talk about the word faithful clearly that is not just a belief alone. It is being loyal in one's conduct. For when we say a husband is faithful to his wife, this means he does not cheat around on her, and he shows his love for her by doing things for her.

In addition, in John 3:36: The Greek word “apeitheō” used in John 3:36 for the English words: “believeth not” (KJB) is translated as “obey not” or “disobedient” in other English bible verses. For example: 1 Peter 3:1, and 1 Peter 3:20 translates apeitheō as “obey not” or “disobedient” and it is used context to being disobedient in regards to one’s righteous conduct (Whereas John 3:36 is translated as believeth not” in the King James Bible). Some translations render the KJB’s John 3:36 “believeth not" as “obey not” in other Translations (NLT, ESV, BLB, NASB, ASV, EXB, GNT). In other words, sometimes the words “believeth not” is synonymous with “obey not” (depending on the context). In fact, you can check this Greek word for yourself and it's usage here at BlueLetterBible.

G544 - apeitheō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

Furthermore, Paul refers to vain deceivers in Titus 1:16 in that they deny God by being reprobate unto every good work. In other words, a person can deny God by having no good deeds or works. So works is a part of the salvation equation. We are just not saved by Works Alone without God's grace. We are not saved by the Law of Moses (the 613) as a whole or package deal. Believers today fulfill the Old Law by loving their neighbor (See: Romans 13:8-10). Paul refers to how God will work in us to do of His good will and pleasure (Philippians 2:13). This is an entirely different work than the work Paul is condemning in Romans 3. For how can Paul be against the work of God?

Bible Highlighter · Jun 10, 2021

RickReads said:
The problem is that I do not feel led to spend valuable time analyzing your posts. The passage below may explain it best though I know you cannot comprehend it.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Also, if you believe Romans 3:23 is referring to the present tense walk of the believer in that believers still are committing grievous sin (presently), then you must also believe that believers have no understanding and they do not seek after God, too. How so?

Well, Romans 3:11 says,
“There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.” (Romans 3:11).

So if you are going to take the “Standard Belief Alone Interpretation” on Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 in that even all Christians are currently sinners in the sense they break God's commands that are attached with warnings of hellfire and or condemnation (like lying, lusting, hating, etc.), then you must also believe Romans 3:11 applies to believers, too. But do you believe that Christians have no understanding and they don't seek after God? This is why this chapter is dealing with Initial Salvation in being saved by God's grace through faith. This is the first side of the coin of faith. Paul is not referring to the second side of the coin of faith in Romans 3. He refers to Sanctification (Which is a part of the faith) in other verses (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Romans 8:13, 2 Corinthians 7:1, etc.). For faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). The “Word of God” is Jesus. So we have to hear and obey Jesus. This would include believing and obeying what His followers say, as well (Because Jesus said to His disciples, “He that receiveth you receiveth me,” - Matthew 10:40).

Ceallaigh · Jun 10, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
I supplied you with verses that talk about how works can be perfect. Your non-acceptance of what the Bible says on this point does undo what the Bible plainly states. Oh, and while I do read the Bible literally in most cases, this is not always the case. I believe many Christians today do not understand what happened in Noah's tent in the story of Noah and Ham because they do not understand the biblical metaphors used in that story.

Biblical Metaphors Shed Light on Ham's Sin in Noah's Tent.

I heard that interpretation taught by Arnold Murray ages ago.

Murray also taught the serpent seed theory; that Eve had sex with the Serpent and Cain was the son of Satan while Able, his fraternal twin, was the son of Adam.

"And I will put enmity between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.” Genesis 3:15

And that there was an 8th day creation of all the other races and inhabitants of the Earth. That's how Cain was able to find a wife in the land of Nod etc.

Ceallaigh · Jun 10, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
Jesus said we would be accused falsely (Matthew 5:11-12).

I take it you don't apply that to the teachers you find fault with that you've criticized in your posts.

RickReads · Jun 10, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
Also, if you believe Romans 3:23 is referring to the present tense walk of the believer in that believers still are committing grievous sin (presently), then you must also believe that believers have no understanding and they do not seek after God, too. How so?

Well, Romans 3:11 says,
“There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.” (Romans 3:11).

So if you are going to take the “Standard Belief Alone Interpretation” on Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 in that even all Christians are currently sinners in the sense they break God's commands that are attached with warnings of hellfire and or condemnation (like lying, lusting, hating, etc.), then you must also believe Romans 3:11 applies to believers, too. But do you believe that Christians have no understanding and they don't seek after God? This is why this chapter is dealing with Initial Salvation in being saved by God's grace through faith. This is the first side of the coin of faith. Paul is not referring to the second side of the coin of faith in Romans 3. He refers to Sanctification (Which is a part of the faith) in other verses (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Romans 8:13, 2 Corinthians 7:1, etc.). For faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). The “Word of God” is Jesus. So we have to hear and obey Jesus. This would include believing and obeying what His followers say, as well (Because Jesus said to His disciples, “He that receiveth you receiveth me,” - Matthew 10:40).

Now, here you are trying to live a godly life. I don`t doubt that. You are motivated by self-preservation
because if you don`t do what God wants then he`ll do horrible things to you. You have made yourself a child of the bondwoman.

I believe Jesus is the Savior. My motives are different. I serve God because I love him. Because He wants a relationship with me as I do with Him. Because he saved me and set me free from sin. Because he is my Father. I don`t have to be forced to do good because the desire of my heart is for good. I want to have the mind of Christ the Bible speaks of. To say in my heart not my will but thine. I am an adopted child of the King, a child of God, a prince, I am a royal priest. For all these things and more I am for Him.

Ceallaigh · Jun 10, 2021

RickReads said:
Now, here you are trying to live a godly life. I don`t doubt that. You are motivated by self-preservation
because if you don`t do what God wants then he`ll do horrible things to you. You have made yourself a child of the bondwoman.

I believe Jesus is the Savior. My motives are different. I serve God because I love him. Because He wants a relationship with me as I do with Him. Because he saved me and set me free from sin. Because he is my Father. I don`t have to be forced to do good because the desire of my heart is for good. I want to have the mind of Christ the Bible speaks of. To say in my heart not my will but thine. I am an adopted child of the King, a child of God, a prince, I am a royal priest. For all these things and more I am for Him.

Well said. It's the same for me.

RickReads · Jun 10, 2021

MMXX said:
Well said. It's the same for me.

I don`t ordinarily come out like that unless I`m giving somebody else a pep talk. God expects his people to be humble, but having somebody insinuating I am a sinner all time gets old after awhile.

Among other things, I`m a crippled old man so my sin options are limited. I think Highlighter has quite an imagination.

Bible Highlighter · Jun 10, 2021

RickReads said:
Now, here you are trying to live a godly life. I don`t doubt that. You are motivated by self-preservation
because if you don`t do what God wants then he`ll do horrible things to you. You have made yourself a child of the bondwoman.

I believe Jesus is the Savior. My motives are different. I serve God because I love him. Because He wants a relationship with me as I do with Him. Because he saved me and set me free from sin. Because he is my Father. I don`t have to be forced to do good because the desire of my heart is for good. I want to have the mind of Christ the Bible speaks of. To say in my heart not my will but thine. I am an adopted child of the King, a child of God, a prince, I am a royal priest. For all these things and more I am for Him.

Whenever Paul refers to the Law or works generically in a negative light, he is referring to the Law of Moses (the 613) as whole or package deal (i.e. the Old Law), and Paul is not referring to the Law of Christ (or the Laws of Christ). Just look at the context. Also, Paul attacked a heresy of what I call, “Circumcision Salvationism.” This false belief said that you had to first be circumcised to be saved (See again: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24, and Galatians 5:24). So when the apostle Paul was referring to the child of the bondwoman, he was attacking “Law ALONE Salvationism” (without God's grace), and he was attacking in going back to the Old Law (i.e. the 613 Laws of Moses). For how do you interpret Jude 1:4 about those who turn God's grace into a license for immorality? How do you interpret Acts of the Apostles 3:23 in that those who do not hear (obey) Jesus will be destroyed? How do you interpret Matthew 13:41-42 in that it says that those who do iniquity (sin) will be gathered out of His Kingdom (i.e. Christ's kingdom) and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the lake of fire)?

Remember what happened in LA Fitness Gym in Pennsylvania on August 4, 2009? When a man named George Sodini fired 50 rounds into an aerobic class before turning the gun on himself. The shooting resulted four deaths (including Sodini himself) and nine injured. George Sodini was a member of the Tetelestai Church. Talking about the pastor of his Church, Sodini wrote in his blog dated Dec. 31, 2008,

“this guy” (Alan “Rick” Knapp) “teaches (and convinced me) you can commit mass murder then still go to heaven. Ask him.“

And in a post dated August 3, 2009, Sodini said;

“Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for every sin, so how can I or you be judged by GOD for a sin when the penalty was already paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.”

After the horrible incident in Pennsylvania, Pastor Knapp’s deacon, Jack Rickard commented on Sodini’s death and said;

“George is going to heaven, but he’s not going to get his rewards,” (SOURCE)

Kenneth Nally, another believer of Belief Alone-ism, committed suicide in 1980 after he was taught that even self-murder would not stop a person once saved from going to heaven.

Would you say that George Sodini, and Kenneth Nally were saved?

Source:
O.S.A.S. – THE WATCHMAN'S CRY

Bible Highlighter · Jun 10, 2021

To all:

As for Andrew Murray and his odd beliefs:

Well, I never learned of what I did from Andrew Murray in regards to the story of Noah and Ham. I learned what I did based on what Scripture says. I definitely do not believe Eve had intimate relations with a snake. Guilt by association is not always true. Just because a particular believer or even church group hold to a particular truth, does not mean that the rest of what they believe is true. For example: Catholics believe in the Trinity, but that does not mean that the rest of all of what they believe is biblical (IMO).

Anyways, the problem with believing in Belief Alone-ism is that it leads a person to turn God's grace into a license for immorality in some way. One will have the mindset that they can sin again and still be saved while doing so. But if this is true, then God would have to agree with their serious sin that He condemns within His own Word. This is contradictory to the goodness of God and His holiness. This is contradictory to His own Word. By faith... Noah built the Ark. It was not by faith... Noah did nothing and the flood came and he was saved. Belief Alone-ism did not save Noah. In fact, speaking of Eve, the serpent (the devil) was trying to convince Eve to break God's command and to make her think that she would not die if she did break God's command. This same lie is being pushed today. Christians believe that just because they did a prayer once and they have a belief alone in Jesus, they are free to break God's commands on some level and still be saved. Sorry, it just does not work like that.

RickReads · Jun 10, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
Whenever Paul refers to the Law or works generically in a negative light, he is referring to the Law of Moses (the 613) as whole or package deal (i.e. the Old Law), and Paul is not referring to the Law of Christ (or the Laws of Christ). Just look at the context. Also, Paul attacked a heresy of what I call, “Circumcision Salvationism.” This false belief said that you had to first be circumcised to be saved (See again: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24, and Galatians 5:24). So when the apostle Paul was referring to the child of the bondwoman, he was attacking “Law ALONE Salvationism” (without God's grace), and he was attacking in going back to the Old Law (i.e. the 613 Laws of Moses). For how do you interpret Jude 1:4 about those who turn God's grace into a license for immorality? How do you interpret Acts of the Apostles 3:23 in that those who do not hear (obey) Jesus will be destroyed? How do you interpret Matthew 13:41-42 in that it says that those who do iniquity (sin) will be gathered out of His Kingdom (i.e. Christ's kingdom) and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the lake of fire)?

Remember what happened in LA Fitness Gym in Pennsylvania on August 4, 2009? When a man named George Sodini fired 50 rounds into an aerobic class before turning the gun on himself. The shooting resulted four deaths (including Sodini himself) and nine injured. George Sodini was a member of the Tetelestai Church. Talking about the pastor of his Church, Sodini wrote in his blog dated Dec. 31, 2008,

“this guy” (Alan “Rick” Knapp) “teaches (and convinced me) you can commit mass murder then still go to heaven. Ask him.“

And in a post dated August 3, 2009, Sodini said;

“Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for every sin, so how can I or you be judged by GOD for a sin when the penalty was already paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.”

After the horrible incident in Pennsylvania, Pastor Knapp’s deacon, Jack Rickard commented on Sodini’s death and said;

“George is going to heaven, but he’s not going to get his rewards,” (SOURCE)

Kenneth Nally, another believer of Belief Alone-ism, committed suicide in 1980 after he was taught that even self-murder would not stop a person once saved from going to heaven.

Would you say that George Sodini, and Kenneth Nally were saved?

Source:
O.S.A.S. – THE WATCHMAN'S CRY

I always tell people it`s best not to decide who is saved and who isn`t because no one knows what God is going to decide yet. Having you run out and find the most extreme example you can get your hands on doesn`t change my thinking on it. I`m not called to judge others and my prayers are always for mercy to prevail.

Bible Highlighter · Jun 10, 2021

RickReads said:
I always tell people it`s best not to decide who is saved and who isn`t because no one knows what God is going to decide yet. Having you run out and find the most extreme example you can get your hands on doesn`t change my thinking on it. I`m not called to judge others and my prayers are always for mercy to prevail.

By not saying that George Sodini, and or Kenneth Nally were condemned by God is to say that they might be saved based on God's mercy and grace. But this is to justify sin and it means that a believer can do all kinds of evils without repenting of those sins and they are still saved. For just replace their sin with the sin of lying, or the sin of lust, or unforgiveness, or the sin of hate, etc.; All these sins that may seem small to mankind are big in God's eyes in that He clearly condemns them (See: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Galatians 5:19-21, and Revelation 21:8).

RickReads · Jun 10, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
By not saying that George Sodini, and or Kenneth Nally were condemned by God is to say that they might be saved based on God's mercy and grace. But this is to justify sin and it means that a believer can do all kinds of evils without repenting of those sins and they are still saved. For just replace their sin with the sin of lying, or the sin of lust, or unforgiveness, or the sin of hate, etc.; All these sins that may seem small to mankind are big in God's eyes in that He clearly condemns them (See: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Galatians 5:19-21, and Revelation 21:8).

So now it`s your position that I must find people to condemn? Ridiculous.

The Two Sides of the Coin of Faith

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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JimD

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

May God be with you and bless you.

May God be with you and bless you.

Well-Known Member

May God be with you and bless you.

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

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