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Just so I’m sure what you are saying, are you saying that Jesus physically appeared in Isaiah 19?
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How might Satan Mimic the Second Coming in the Clouds of Heaven?
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Ok, I can see that in the first part of Revelation 21: 9One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”
But how about when we get down to verse 24. This doesn't seem to match what we have as the church today:
24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Also, when did this happen: 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. ?
The church never came down out of Heaven since I've been saved. Jesus could be said to have come down from Heaven when He was born, but then went back up after he was resurrected. I can't think of any time when Jesus or the Church could have come down from Heaven after that.
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I have already provided historical evidence that Isaiah 19 had nothing to do with A.D70.
It is actually a prophecy about (if i remember correctly) the estabishment of cities such as Alexandria in Egypt that were highly influenced by jewish culture.
Verse 4. - The Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord.
"The Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord. It has been observed above that Piankhi will not answer to this description. It will, however, well suit Esarhaddon. Esarhaddon, soon after his accession, cut off the heads of Abdi-Milkut, King of Sidon, and of Sanduarri, King of Kundi, and hung them round the necks of two of their chief officers (G. Smith, 'Eponym Canon,' pp. 137-139). In an expedition which he made into Arabia, he slew eight of the sovereigns, two of them being women ('Records of the Past,' vol. 3. pp. 106, 107). On conquering Egypt he treated it with extreme severity." Isaiah 19 Pulpit Commentary (biblehub.com)
Verse 17. - The land of Judah shall be a terror unto Egypt.
In Manasseh's reign Judaea became subject to Assyria (2 Chronicles 33:11; G. Smith, 'Eponym Canon,' p. 139, 1. 13), and had to take part in the hostile expeditions, which both Esarhaddon and his son, Asshurbanipal, conducted against Egypt. Egypt had to keep her eye on Judaea continually, to see when danger was approaching her.
Again, Isaiah 19 has nothing to do with A.D 70.
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He won't be able to mimic the coming on the clouds of heaven
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Jeffwhosoever
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Agreed. The devil isn't that powerful and besides God would never allow such a deception that is not recorded in Scripture.
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SongOnTheWind
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You don't think it's going to be the Lord's physical coming down to speak audibly and to judge?
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SongOnTheWind
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Until He comes again. So even at his second coming, we shouldn't be looking for anything? Coming in the clouds is simply a metaphor for judgement, and his other second coming is a metaphor for what?
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I assume we are talking about the great white throne judgement at the very end of the age and before the creation of the new heaven and new earth that will be a wonder beyond anything we have ever seen on earth or in the heavens prior to the Lord "making all things new?"
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SongOnTheWind
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Jeffwhosoever
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The preterist view forces adherents into nearly impossible to conceive positions on Scripture, which by Occam's razor suggests something is wrong with an interpretation that has to make 10,000 assumptions to render Revelation meaningful and yet still doesn't explain all the other prophecy throughout the bible like Daniel, 1 Thessalonians 4 and the Olivet Discourse and many other references to the Day of the Lord in the Old and New Testament.
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SongOnTheWind
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I was refering to a scripture reference I provided earlier in Rev 11v1-18. When does come again, He will come to judge:
Revelation 11:15-18
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
What do you think? Is this not Christ's second coming?
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Sounds like a reference to further in Revelation when Jesus comes to set up His Millenium Kingdom for 1,000 years but also could be a reference to the final great white throne judgement prior to "making all things new" with the New Heaven and New earth too. One thing is for certain. We will know one day and I think not very far away. The time is close at hand.
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SongOnTheWind
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Thank you! This makes a whole heap of sense!
This is how I have always seen the chronology unfolding. I'm a pre-trib (to depressing not to be), though I am very open to the possibility of mid/post-trib, as I would NOT like to be caught unawares. I really would love a clear chronology of the whole book of Revelation, especially in the leading up to and ruling of the anti-Christ, but then I guess we wouldn't all be astir about it, and maybe wouldn't pay quite so much attention; and maybe even get complacent about it all? Who knows.
I think we are very close to the return of Christ. I think we are just on the cusp of harvest time, when the sons of God are revealed to the groaning creation. Wild times ahead.
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Logically, i cannot see how it is possible for Satan to be roaming around for 1000 years with no one to tempt, and Jesus and the saints who have been translated into sinless beings to be on the same planet!
Clearly the solution to this dilemma is that the 1000 year millenium is not on earth but in heaven.
Then at the final destruction, the new Jerusalem comes down from heaven, the wicked are raised to be shown their deeds and judgement pronounced with the final deception by Satan that they can attack and win, then destruction event takes place. After this a new heaven and a new earth are made.
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You asked a question and I’m trying to clarify what you meant by the terms you used.
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There’s nothing to look for. There are things to do. The “signs” given to the first century church were for their safety, especially those in Jerusalem. They needed to know when to flee the city. Keep in mind that these events were to take place during that generation.
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