The Rapture of the Church is after the Tribulation

mobius8curve said:

Hi Folks!

Please take the time to study the hundreds of scriptures I amassed that clearly prove the resurrection/rapture is after the 7 years of tribulation:

The Rapture of the Church is after the Tribulation

But Mystery ~ Babylon the great must first complete her purpose:

MYSTERY ~ BABYLON THE GREAT and her BEAST

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Yes and no. There is a group within the church who are the Overcomers. They are the believers referred to in Revelation12. They will be taken away prior to the tribulation. Christians who are left will be the half hearted, spiritually lazy, careless, rejecting discipleship and living mostly for themselves. When the prayer warriors, those who actively resist the devil and who walk in the Spirit leave the earth, the power that restrains Satan is gone. The "foolish" (Matthew 25:1-13) will be left behind. They will endure the tribulation. If they wake up and repent, they will suffer in the natural but be blessed spiritually.

there won't be rapture people will be ressurected by the Lord and won't be picked up to heaven. They have to await judgement.

Your still paraphrasing you have to read things in hebrew and greek and you will see they mean another thing. Rapture you say isn't some words are symbolic, spiritual and physical.

mobius8curve said:

Please read this entire rapture link bro as there is no evidence the "overcomers" being taken before the tribulation in Revelation chapter 12 or any other part of the Bible:

The Rapture of the Church is after the Tribulation

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That's the problem with eschatology. Everyone has their pet scriptures and interpretations. I got mine from one the greatest scholars, preachers and teachers ever, Mr Watchman Nee.

grumix8 said:

there won't be rapture people will be ressurected by the Lord and won't be picked up to heaven. They have to await judgement.

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then what do you do with

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

a good question IMO to ask is who is going to be left at the end alive, that is who survive the Armageddon, and enters into the 1,000 year rule in there mortal bodies??

if the answer is believers then I don see how the post trib works?

if the answer is non believers I dont see how the pre trib works?

There may be a separation of believers who go before the anti-Christ is revealed and those who become believers and are martyred during that time. (Which may be the only way to be sure you are saved at that point.)

Keep in mind that the anti-Christ cannot be revealed until the "He who restrains" is taken away. Also understand that the anti-Christ comes with ALL the activity of Satan himself, with all his power, all his signs, and all his false wonders. Understand that this is singular, not plural. Also get this ... Satan is so powerful that he convinced a third of those who were there when the foundations of the world were laid that he could take God. It's another reason why angels, even the most powerful ones, do not rebuke Satan. They say, "The Lord rebuke you.". So the question is, who (Singular) is strong enough to restrain Satan?

Another interesting point. What had to happen before the Holy Spirit could indwell men and become the pledge of their future inheritance (Note: A pledge cannot be taken back or be returned until that for which the pledge is given is received.)

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Joh 16:7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

2Th 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? 6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,

It would make sense that if the Holy Spirit could not come down and be given as the pledge of our future inheritance, that that same Holy Spirit would have to return BEFORE Christ could come back. Plus, there is only One "singular" being that has the power to restrain one coming with all the power, signs, wonders ... of Satan, and that is God Himself, i.e. the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit cannot be removed without us already having received that for which that "Pledge" was given. Does that make sense?

The Christian Church has, since the beginning confessed--because it's what the Apostles taught, and what the Scriptures say--that when Christ returns He returns in glory to judge the living and the dead, and at His coming the dead shall be raised.

While some in the early Church--such as St. Irenaeus--did teach that there would be a future period of tribulation lasting 3.5 years, this wasn't altogether common. But, in fairness, there has always been some diversity in opinions when it comes to Eschatology. In antiquity, both Chiliasm and Amillennialism (those who believe in a literal Millennium and those who don't) co-existed. Though as time went on, the Chiliast position lost support among most theologians who saw it as a deeply flawed understanding of Scripture. And didn't really show up again until after the Protestant Reformation (though the Reformers themselves were Amillennial). Most forms of modern Chiliasm didn't show up until the 18th and 19th centuries.

However, this rapture stuff--Christians being taken directly into heaven by some sort of secret coming of Jesus before His actual return--that was completely unheard of until modern times. And can largely be traced back to a single man, John Nelson Darby; while not all the ideas necessarily associated with Darby were invented by him, he is the one who gave rise to the modern idea of the rapture and the whole system of theology known as Dispensationalism.

The so-called "post-tribulation rapture" is certainly more in keeping with the biblical and historical teachings of Christianity. However I think the use of the term "rapture" is problematic because of the word's nearly universal association with Dispensationalism and the false doctrines of Darby.

It's the resurrection of the dead. That's what the Scriptures call it, that's what the Creeds call it, that's what every Christian from the very beginning has called it.

Hence why in the Apostles' Creed it is confessed that we believe in "the resurrection of the body and the life everlasting", and in the Nicene Creed, that we "look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life everlasting in the Age to Come". For the day shall come when our Lord shall return, and the dead shall be raised, bodily, to incorruptible and eternal life--on the Day that God makes all things new.

-CryptoLutheran

Neither the "rapture" nor the "tribulation" are beliefs of original and true Christianity. Jesus Christ never heard of them. His Apostles never heard of them, which is why there is no reference to either of them in the Bible. No Christian on Earth ever heard of either of these ideas until Protestant denominations dreamed them up within the past few hundred years. Which is why the original and true Christian Church, to which Jesus promised the fullness of God's truth, rejects both these manmade beliefs.

mobius8curve said:

Hi Folks!

Please take the time to study the hundreds of scriptures I amassed that clearly prove the resurrection/rapture is after the 7 years of tribulation:

The Rapture of the Church is after the Tribulation

But Mystery ~ Babylon the great must first complete her purpose:

MYSTERY ~ BABYLON THE GREAT and her BEAST

Click to expand...

Hi mobius8curve,

I didn't read your treatise, but I am in agreement with the claim of your title statement. Many believers seem to have confused 'God's wrath' with 'tribulation'. They aren't defining the same thing.

The Scriptures tell us that believers are not going to suffer God's wrath, but a careful reading of the Scriptures tells us that the release of God's wrath is the last event to occur in this age. The tribulation of the saints, which Jesus tells us will be like no other time of persecution to have ever occurred before, will be an event and time created by Satan and this world. Believers living in those days will remain on the earth through those days. At some point during the great tribulation, God is going to instruct His Son to go get His children. After Jesus does, which is told to us in Revelation 14, then God's wrath will be released upon all those who remain. The following angel throws all those who were left behind by the son of man into the winepress of God's wrath.

Revelation 14:14-20 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested. Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

The order, as I understand it is: The world begins the great persecution and tribulation of the saints. A time when the children of God will suffer worse than in any period of such suffering previously upon the earth. Jesus, the one looking like the son of man, will harvest the earth of the believers (rapture). All those remaining will then be gathered by the following angel and thrown into the winepress of God's wrath, which are the judgments of God that come at the end of the age and are explained in John's writing of the Revelation.

So, the wrath of God, is not the same occurrence as the days of great tribulation.

God bless,
Ted

I don't mind talking about this but.. to come here to just go to some other page to then come back here.. is that your site? Who are you? Well you used a word "proves". Why is what you believe true vs anyone else?

You said "Rapture of the Church is after the tribulation" yet you gave no verse for that. You can't no one can for its not written. No one can say "Pre-trib will happen before the tribulation" then post a verse proving that because there is no verse.

No offense but you said "Father began showing me through His Holy Spirit the truth of His Word about the timing of the Rapture:" This is something He has not shown any one for it goes against the word of God. Even when they asked Christ .. are you going to rule now? He said of those times and seasons only the Father knows. Facts, Each take parts of the word to say "my personal belief is" or "this proves it" etc.

I know many but there is Dr Brown once believed pre now post. There is Perry Stone believes pre. They will never say " I am right he is wrong". Each will say why they believe then post verses as you did. Now there is another mad of God known has a great following that says this same GOD told him showed in verse by verse why ALL are wrong. No offense but that man has more weight to his word then anyone here. Yet I believe his wrong.

If I share what I believe seems to point to pre yet.. I can't find that verse. I know what Christ told the 12, I know about the wrath of God thats coming on the world not just a few cities but all in the world. I know LOT had to gone "as long as you are here I can do nothing". I am righteous so Gods wrath will never come anywhere near where I am. I will never see it in anyway. For it to come I will have to be gone. There is no MTN no cities this time to go and hide. I know when our brother Paul by the holy Spirit talked about "Caught up" I noticed for something he knew or saw he never said THEM or THEY.. he said "we which remain". So for me seems Paul didn't know when. He knew the word of God far better then any here.

So since I can prove by some verse I must just be ready now. See I was not promised tomorrow so I live in this moment. RIght now is when I expect Christ to come. My lamp is lit full I am always watching. To always be thinking of Christ..always watching what I do and say.. its SO WONDERFUL! I will never miss Him. No one on this planet can say if you are not watching are not ready do not believe you will go anyway. Another great man of God gone home now said "I am post BUT...if Christ comes now I am ready". Thanks for all you wrote it was really great! I just do not agree.

With some verses you had to share "what that really means, What He was really saying". We all do this.. yet its not His word then its our personal beleif.

mobius8curve said:

Hi Folks!

Please take the time to study the hundreds of scriptures I amassed that clearly prove the resurrection/rapture is after the 7 years of tribulation:

The Rapture of the Church is after the Tribulation

But Mystery ~ Babylon the great must first complete her purpose:

MYSTERY ~ BABYLON THE GREAT and her BEAST

Click to expand...

I have study endtime events written in scripture for years now, a few decades - and I totally agree with you and haven't read anything other than your headline