Danger in young Christians in critical church leadership?

ladylove · Apr 3, 2003

You know, it is such a shame that christian bodies allow very young Christian men who are basically spiritually inexpereinced (but enthusiastic) to lead a church. It causes great turmoil in the life of a church because of such impetuous decisions-making by such youngsters. That is why balance is needed by those Christian men who are older and have a bigger picture understanding of how Christ leads its church, as he is the head.

It is unfortunate and my prayer is that the congreational bodies have strength and wisdom from the Holy Spirit to nominate leaders who are wise and merciful with the Lord's money and can lead a flock properly.

Amen... :pray:

I can eat 50 eggs · Apr 3, 2003

Hmmm, kind of like say, Timothy?  Yeah, that's awful.

let's whip out that little thing called the BIBLE and see what it says

1 john 2
I write to you, young men,
       because you have overcome the evil one.
   I write to you, dear children,
       because you have known the Father.
I write to you, young men,
       because you are strong,
       and the word of God lives in you,
       and you have overcome the evil one.

1 Timothy 4
12Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity.

ladylove · Apr 3, 2003

However, most of the time that is not the case. I have seen way to much abuse by inexperienced and YOUNG leaders make extremely foolish decisions with the Lord's money and other resources that cause the church to go into debt and strangle themselves because of "big dreams and visions" that such leaders put upon the people.

Generally, it should not be done to be prudent in stewardship and direction of the church and future. It is too bad that it happens more often than you think.

I can eat 50 eggs · Apr 3, 2003

I've seen the same thing with older leaders. there might be a small correlation, but I think there would be much more statistical relevance for other factors, say, lack of closeness to God, insufficient training (more a problem with older leaders) and lack of accounting knowledge.

ladylove · Apr 3, 2003

3rd April 2003 at 11:08 AM I can eat 50 eggs said this in Post #4

I've seen the same thing with older leaders. there might be a small correlation, but I think there would be much more statistical relevance for other factors, say, lack of closeness to God, insufficient training (more a problem with older leaders) and lack of accounting knowledge. /QUOTE]

I bet not as much. That is why the verses relating to selection of leaders for the church (I don't remember now which NT book, can someone help?) are generally related to much older and experienced Christians who are the true leaders who should do mentoring to the younger, less experienced Christians so as they mature will be "raised up" to future positions to allow for the future leadership.

Mentoring is a very lost art and has been implemented in our church for sometime with amazing results. It frankly should be done in all bible-believeing churchs to help prevent costly mistakes in many areas. I don't think the mentoring ministry will be disbanded since it has been such a blessing to our church.

I can eat 50 eggs · Apr 3, 2003

3rd April 2003 at 10:18 AM ladylove said this in Post #5

Mentoring is a very lost art .... It frankly should be done in all bible-believeing churchs to help prevent costly mistakes in many areas. I

a big old AMEN to that.

 

1 timothy 3 gives the requirements for overseers (pastors) and deacons

 

Overseers and Deacons

1Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer,[1] he desires a noble task. 2Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. 5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.
8Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.
11In the same way, their wives[2] are to be women worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.
12A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well. 13Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.

 

I don't see anything in there tied to age though.

Athlon4all · Apr 3, 2003

We must keep in Mind I Timothy chapter 3 I believe it is. It is clear in the qualifications of elders (or pastors) that they are to be experienced believers. Now I do realize that there is no specific time thing but you are absolutely correct that young believers should not be in leadership or be elders. I experienced first hand the result of a pastor who was not an experienced Christ, and it showed (he denounced key doctrines of the denomination that he had went to seminary in during his very first church)

I can eat 50 eggs · Apr 3, 2003

all that it says is that they must not be new converts. No mention of age.

At what age is it appropriate to be a pastor/elder? 20? 25? 30? 35? when do you suddenly get mature enough?

SpiritPsalmist · Apr 3, 2003

I don't think the age of a person matters at all. Josiah was only 8 years old when he was made king of Judah.

In 2 Kings 22:2 (amplified) it says, "He did right in the sight of the Lord and walked in all the ways of David his [forefather], and turned not aside to the right hand or to the left." It does not mean he never made mistakes. . .he did right in the sight of the Lord.

The only reason a person should be made Pastor is because God called them to be and He has appointed them. Not they themselves or a body of people who think they know best.

And. . .that body of believers who are part of that church are to lift up their Pastor in prayer and absoutly NO gossipping, mumbleing, grumbling, complaining, criticizing, etc. Do do so. . .makes them the main reason that the Pastor stumbles, if he stumbles.

Athlon4all · Apr 3, 2003

The verse I was thinking of is I Timothy 3:6 and I'll post v1 for context.

Faithful is the saying, If a man seeketh the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. The bishop therefore must be...not a novice, lest being puffed up he fall into the condemnation of the devil. (I Timothy 3:1,2a,6)

The strong's definition of the word translated novice is below:

From G3501 and a derivative of G5453; newly planted, that is, (figuratively) a young convert ("neophyte"): - novice.

This verse is saying that immature believers (regardless of physical age) arew not to be bishops, or elders. That is the danger that I think is that if you are young in age, then you are going to be a young Christian. On the flip side, you can be in your 30s and 40s and be an immature Christian (one who's still eating milk) or a newly saved one (like the pastor I mentioned was). I myself am 16 and I have been raised in a Christian home, but only truly began walking with Christ 2 years ago. I certainly should not be an elder/pastor/bishop. I suppose this is something where we need to seek the Lord for interpretation of a passage like this to determine whether the person is a novice in the Lord.

I do see what you mean I can eat 50 eggs and we certainly don't want to discourage young people but it is clear that the office of elders/pastors/bishops is not for novices in the Lord, which I would say include at the very least kids under the age of 20, possibly even older.

I can eat 50 eggs · Apr 3, 2003

oh, wow, 20, okay, you ahve a different Idea of what "young" is than me. I also agree no one under 20 should be a pastor/deacon/elder. They haven't even gotten done with undergrad, much less seminary by then.

chock it up to another miscommunication!

Didymus · Apr 3, 2003

I was on a trip with my travel club a few years ago and overheard two of the older women talking about how some young couples had recently started coming to the church one of them attended. It sems they had a lot of new ideas and were creating quite a stir by wanting to change the ways some things were done.
Woman 1-so what did you do
Woman 2- we told them that things had always been done the way they are now and they could go elsewhere if they didn t like it.
woman 1- did they leave ?
woman 2- yes . I you don t put a stop to that sort of thing right away the young people will take over the church and change everything.
I was haard put to keep my mouth shut. that church is very small with an aging population and could use some young viberent members. I don t know what the changes were but i doubt if they were radical.

ladylove · Apr 3, 2003

I will submit that anyone considered to be a leadership position of any church should at a minimum be "at least" 35 and a junior leadership position at that. I would prefer elders of any type be 40+ as it appears life experience as well as spiritual experience have a great deal to do with "wisdom" from the Holy Spirit.

Now I am sorry if some here are younger, but I disagree that they should be in lead roles of the church. They generally make to many costly mistakes and poor judgments because of inexperience and that is a very poor witness. I don't think it is intentional, generally, but it really is a lack of the above plus understanding and leading from the Holy Spirit.

I see it sometimes in some of the moderator's answers and it shows. There I said it.

Caedmon · Apr 3, 2003

3rd April 2003 at 11:42 AM Didymus said this in Post #12

I was on a trip with my travel club a few years ago and overheard two of the older women talking about how some young couples had recently started coming to the church one of them attended. It sems they had a lot of new ideas and were creating quite a stir by wanting to change the ways some things were done.
Woman 1-so what did you do
Woman 2- we told them that things had always been done the way they are now and they could go elsewhere if they didn t like it.
woman 1- did they leave ?
woman 2- yes . I you don t put a stop to that sort of thing right away the young people will take over the church and change everything.
I was haard put to keep my mouth shut. that church is very small with an aging population and could use some young viberent members. I don t know what the changes were but i doubt if they were radical.

A southern baptist church I know of had a group of older people that were putting all their tithes into a bank account instead of giving them to the church. They were gathering up their money because they wanted to start their own little "campus" seperate from the main church. But the main church told them that they couldn't do that. It's a nasty situation.

Didymus · Apr 3, 2003

I remeber a minister who had to leave his church because they refused to let him change anything. he was older by the way LL. they even told him his sermons were too radical--he preached the gospel and called a spade a spade. i guess a hand-me-down hat is bound to fit somebody.

ladylove · Apr 3, 2003

3rd April 2003 at 12:26 PM Didymus said this in Post #15

I remeber a minister who had to leave his church because they refused to let him change anything. he was older by the way LL. they even told him his sermons were too radical--he preached the gospel and called a spade a spade. i guess a hand-me-down hat is bound to fit somebody.

Well, do I know how this minster of truth feels. For I have been persecuted for speaking the truth on this website when others have tried to silence me. I will stand firm even if they throw me out, for their deeds are indeed evil.

God has taken notice and persecution of the righteous will be rewarded by the Great Equalizer ~a persecuted sheep.

9-iron · Apr 3, 2003

What is bad is people are placed in leadership based on money, influence and name. Even worse is we let the congregation VOTE on leadership. Amazing we have people in the church who haven't had an encounter with God since the day they were saved deciding leadership. That will cause more trouble in the church than anything else I have seen.
That said I do agree with need more mentoring and spiritual fathering in the church today. Problem is most young people with the potential for leadership take great offense to mentoring.

9-iron · Apr 3, 2003

I will submit that anyone considered to be a leadership position of any church should at a minimum be "at least" 35 and a junior leadership position at that. I would prefer elders of any type be 40+ as it appears life experience as well as spiritual experience have a great deal to do with "wisdom" from the Holy Spirit.

I totally disagree with age limits. You need extremely seasoned headship to determine who has the ability and calling to step into leadership. After that has been decided there needs to be a period of time for that person to find their identity in leadership. A good internship program will solve all the problems that might arise. I know at our church if you have to go through edership training or internship for a year working closely with sr. pastor or other head elders. At the end of the year a team evaluation is done and either the candidate goes for another year of training or is asked to step down. Sounds harsh but elimates many potential snares. As far as age, I have seen young leaders between the ages of 25-30 with the wisdom and ability to lead far greater than those 50+.

I can eat 50 eggs · Apr 3, 2003

3rd April 2003 at 12:25 PM 9-iron said this in Post #17 

Even worse is we let the congregation VOTE on leadership.

there is nothing that makes less sense, or leads to more problems, than that.

 

LL, got a question for you.  A young man has a true heart to serve God, and feels a calling.  He goes to college, then to seminary.  He graduates at 25.  what is he supposed to do for the next 10 years until he is old and wise enough to serve as an assistant pastor somewhere?

 

Our pastor has over 4000 people, and is 32.  Our church is incredibly dynamic, spirit filled, evangelization centered church.  what's the problem?

 

I would argue the exact opposite as far as deacons.  deacons are to be SERVANTS, NOT LEADERS.  At many churches, the deacons are all at least 45, average age probably 60.  while I don't doubt there desire to serve, I don't think they are as qualified to SERVE someone as someone's peer.

 

 

I can eat 50 eggs · Apr 3, 2003

Also, personality and the gifts God has given matter far more than age. I'm 27, I'm a leader natural leader amongst my age group. My age group of young married people does by far the most "grunt work" around the church, we're the ones making sure things get done. yet there isn't a single deacon from amongst our ranks, why, because we aren't old enough? don't tithe enough (read, we tithe, just don't make that much)

Danger in young Christians in critical church leadership?

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