Futurist Only Is Trumpet 6 the same as Bowl 6?

Timtofly

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Your interpretation would have us believe counterfeit christs are really meaning the real Christ is upon the earth during the GT rather than the fake ones instead. IOW, your interpretation would have us do the opposite of what Jesus said not to do. He said do not believe anyone if they claim, Lo, here is Christ, or there. Jesus said to believe it not. Your interpretation says to believe them when they say, Lo, here is Christ, or there.
No it does not, any more than people claiming an antichrist. Because those claims are about antichrist. Jesus is telling them, they will know Him when He comes. No one will have to say Christ is here or there.

The Lamb will be the one setting up His throne in Jerusalem. Many will declare a false antichrist before and during the Second Coming. Like many here are declaring they know who the antichrist is.
 
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The 6th seal describes the second coming from the perspective of the unsaved but the second coming does not occur when that seal is opened. It's only knowledge of a future event. That's what all the seals are. It's only the trumps that will signal actions to occur and the second coming will commence at the last of the 7 trumpets. The vials will also be poured after that trump sounds.

This tells me that you do not understand that the things that Jesus tells us in Matt 24 regarding things that occur before His coming are the very things that John tells us in Rev 6. False Christs, wars, famines and pestilence are certainly actions that will occur during the 70th week of Daniel. When the 70th week is over, with the coming of the Lord for the gathering then the wrath of God begins. That's when you get the trumpets. When the 7th trumpet sounds, it's over. The wrath of God is over. The kingdoms of the world are become the kingdoms of Lord, meaning that Armageddon has occurred. The vial sare just a different view of things that occur in the wrath of God.
 
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No we don't. Christ will be on earth during the Great Tribulation.
I'm not sure how to make it any clearer. The Word is certainly clear enough. Christ will not be on earth during the Great Tribulation. The Word says that it is the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24 and that not since the beginning of the world or EVER will there be a time like this. THIS IS THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The Word says that the Great Tribulation is over BEFORE Jesus comes.

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

I don't think you understand the difference between the the Tribulation and the Wrath of God. Gods wrath does not begin until the tribulation is over.
 
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The wrath of the Lamb in Revelation 6:16 is referring to the retribution that Jesus will execute on behalf of them martyred in the fifth seal.
I'm not sure that you understand that what is being talked about in the 5th seal, is the Great Tribulation.

Rev 5
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

I'm not sure that you understand that what is being talked about in Rev 14, is the Great Tribulation.


Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

The wrath of God, differently, will be in the vials of God's wrath that will be spread out across the second half of the 7 years.
The vials are just a different view of things that happen during the wrath of God. The trumpets are another view of things that happen during the wrath of God. Both are the same time period.
BTW. The wrath of the Lamb and the wrath of God are the same thing. This difference is just something that Perry Stone cooked up because he doesn't understand that there are two raptures and that the tribulation is over before the wrath of God begins. And I love Perry Stone.
The last of those vials of God's wrath is the 7th vial in Revelation 16 after the kings of the earth assemble their armies at Armageddon at the time of the 6th vial poured out.

Revelation 16:16 - the armies gather at Armageddon, at the time of the sixth vial of God's wrath.
And if you can understand it, Armageddon has occurred during the 7 trumpets. As we see that the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of the Lord. Christ is reigning on earth. WRATH IS OVER.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Revelation 16:17-21 - the last vial of God's wrath poured out, the seventh vial. The global earthquake and the great hail.
Gee. You mean the exact same global earthquake and great hail that we see at the end of the trumpets.
Rev 11
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

I keep waiting for the light to go on. The vials and trumpets are just different views of what happens during the wrath of God.
 
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Timtofly

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I'm not sure how to make it any clearer. The Word is certainly clear enough. Christ will not be on earth during the Great Tribulation. The Word says that it is the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24 and that not since the beginning of the world or EVER will there be a time like this. THIS IS THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The Word says that the Great Tribulation is over BEFORE Jesus comes.

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

I don't think you understand the difference between the the Tribulation and the Wrath of God. Gods wrath does not begin until the tribulation is over.
Jesus does not give the events in order. Verse 15 is the 7th Trumpet. Verse 21 covers the 6 Trumpets. Verse 29 are the Seals. John gives the correct order.
 
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Jesus does not give the events in order. Verse 15 is the 7th Trumpet. Verse 21 covers the 6 Trumpets. Verse 29 are the Seals. John gives the correct order.
I just showed you how we can be absolutely positive that Jesus is not on earth during the tribulation. Just read what it says and get out of your own way. When you make these wrong conclusions there is NO CHANCE that you will understand.

I'm going to show you that Jesus and John give the exact same order in the end times. There is no need to figure anything out, just read what it says.

1) False Christs.
Jesus-
Matt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

John-
Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

2) War
Jesus-
Matt 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:...............................

John-
Rev 6
3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

3) Famine and Pestilence
Jesus-
Matt 24:7 .................................................................and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

John-
Rev 6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

4) The Great Tribulation
Jesus-
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

John-
Rev 6:
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

5) The Signs of His Coming
Jesus-
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

John-


Rev 6:
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake;
and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together;
and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

6) Jesus Returns
Jesus-
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

John-
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

As you can see, everything is in perfect order. We don't need to make any incorrect assumptions about whether or not Jesus in on the earth during the tribulation. Jesus and John tell you the exact same story about end times. All we need do is read what it says.
 
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DavidPT

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No it does not, any more than people claiming an antichrist. Because those claims are about antichrist. Jesus is telling them, they will know Him when He comes. No one will have to say Christ is here or there.

The Lamb will be the one setting up His throne in Jerusalem. Many will declare a false antichrist before and during the Second Coming. Like many here are declaring they know who the antichrist is.


Jesus is never wrong about anything. He doesn't contradict Himself. He would not be telling anyone to not believe it if one claims He is physically present during the GT. He said when ones make claims like that, don't believe them, since it's not the real Him they are claiming is present somewhere.

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


Why are you insisting, via your interpretation, that one should instead believe it if one says, Lo, here is Christ, or there---Behold, he is in the desert---behold, he is in the secret chambers? How can--- Lo, here is Christ, or there---not cover every possible place on the planet? And if He is not here or there at the time, how can He still be somewhere on the planet at the time, meaning bodily?
 
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Timtofly

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Jesus is never wrong about anything. He doesn't contradict Himself. He would not be telling anyone to not believe it if one claims He is physically present during the GT. He said when ones make claims like that, don't believe them, since it's not the real Him they are claiming is present somewhere.

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


Why are you insisting, via your interpretation, that one should instead believe it if one says, Lo, here is Christ, or there---Behold, he is in the desert---behold, he is in the secret chambers? How can--- Lo, here is Christ, or there---not cover every possible place on the planet? And if He is not here or there at the time, how can He still be somewhere on the planet at the time, meaning bodily?
I am not insisting. You are insisting that I am insisting. Not the same thing. I said no one should claim there is an antichrist on the same grounds, because they are saying here is a christ, who we know is the antichrist.

Jesus is not declaring He is not present. He is declaring no one will have to declare He is present. Jesus does not have to give an answer that fits your belief system. The tribulation of those days is not the same thing as the tribulation that is unprecedented.

Most want to change the arrangement of John's book called Revelation to fit the words of Jesus. That is not necessary. John's chronology is just fine. Jesus was not giving a word by word play of events in the order they will happen. Jesus was answering 3 questions at the same time. When is the temple destroyed? When is the Second Coming? When is the end? Not all answers were about the destruction of the Temple. Not all answers were about the end. And not all the answers were about the Second Coming.
 
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DavidPT

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I am not insisting. You are insisting that I am insisting. Not the same thing. I said no one should claim there is an antichrist on the same grounds, because they are saying here is a christ, who we know is the antichrist.

Jesus is not declaring He is not present. He is declaring no one will have to declare He is present. Jesus does not have to give an answer that fits your belief system. The tribulation of those days is not the same thing as the tribulation that is unprecedented.

Most want to change the arrangement of John's book called Revelation to fit the words of Jesus. That is not necessary. John's chronology is just fine. Jesus was not giving a word by word play of events in the order they will happen. Jesus was answering 3 questions at the same time. When is the temple destroyed? When is the Second Coming? When is the end? Not all answers were about the destruction of the Temple. Not all answers were about the end. And not all the answers were about the Second Coming.


You are ignoring the fact that Matthew 24:29-31 is chronologically correct. Verse 29 speaks of a trib of those days, meaning in this case, the GT. That verse indicates that when those days are finished, immediately after, the sun shall go dark, etc. Then in verse 30 it indicates, then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven. It is only after these events, the trib of those days, followed by the sun going dark, followed by the appearing of the sign of the Son of man in heaven, that the coming of Jesus can then happen. Your interpretation has the coming in verse 30 already occurring before the sun even goes dark first. When the sun goes dark it is after the trib of those days. The coming in verse 30 is also after the trib of those days, thus the real Christ can't already be present on the earth during the trib of those days, since that contradicts everything Jesus told us in verses 29-31. Contradictions don't prove truths, they expose it as untruths instead.
 
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Timtofly

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You are ignoring the fact that Matthew 24:29-31 is chronologically correct. Verse 29 speaks of a trib of those days, meaning in this case, the GT. That verse indicates that when those days are finished, immediately after, the sun shall go dark, etc. Then in verse 30 it indicates, then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven. It is only after these events, the trib of those days, followed by the sun going dark, followed by the appearing of the sign of the Son of man in heaven, that the coming of Jesus can then happen. Your interpretation has the coming in verse 30 already occurring before the sun even goes dark first. When the sun goes dark it is after the trib of those days. The coming in verse 30 is also after the trib of those days, thus the real Christ can't already be present on the earth during the trib of those days, since that contradicts everything Jesus told us in verses 29-31. Contradictions don't prove truths, they expose it as untruths instead.
You reject then that the church is under tribulation, where thousands are martyred monthly. Is not the tribulation when they deliver up those to death?
 
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This tells me that you do not understand that the things that Jesus tells us in Matt 24 regarding things that occur before His coming are the very things that John tells us in Rev 6.

Of course I understand that. That is very easy to understand. Why do you think the events of the 6th seal is happening when the seal is opened yet you seem to understand that the same events Christ spoke of in Matthew 24 were NOT happening when he described them? The 6th seal is doing the same thing as Christ did it Matthew 24. The events are being described but aren't happening in real time in either Matthew 24 or the 6th seal in fact all the seals are the same, just information about things to come.
 
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Of course I understand that. That is very easy to understand. Why do you think the events of the 6th seal is happening when the seal is opened yet you seem to understand that the same events Christ spoke of in Matthew 24 were NOT happening when he described them?
So the events of Matthew 24 were not happening when Jesus described them? That's right. Just like the events at the 6th seal did not happen when John wrote them. I'm not sure about your logic. What I am sure of is when the 6th seal is opened, the events described will occur.

The 6th seal is doing the same thing as Christ did it Matthew 24. The events are being described but aren't happening in real time in either Matthew 24 or the 6th seal in fact all the seals are the same, just information about things to come.
As each seal is opened in the future, the event described will occur, whether you believe what is written or not.
Which means when the sixth seal is opened, Jesus will come, in the clouds, long before the 7th trumpet is blown.
 
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So the events of Matthew 24 were not happening when Jesus described them? That's right. Just like the events at the 6th seal did not happen when John wrote them. I'm not sure about your logic. What I am sure of is when the 6th seal is opened, the events described will occur.

They don't happen when the seals are opened. Jesus remains in heaven to open the last seal and then will remain in heaven until the 7th trump, the time of his second coming.


As each seal is opened in the future, the event described will occur, whether you believe what is written or not.

That's the most common interpretation but it remains incorrect.

Which means when the sixth seal is opened, Jesus will come, in the clouds, long before the 7th trumpet is blown.

He only comes back here when the 7th and last trump sounds.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The 7th trump will sound, Christ will leave heaven and arrive at the clouds of the Earth, the dead will resurrect and the living saints will be changed and then raptured up to those same clouds and then Christ will come further down to the Earth where many things will happen like the vials of the wrath of God and Armageddon etc.
 
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They don't happen when the seals are opened. Jesus remains in heaven to open the last seal and then will remain in heaven until the 7th trump, the time of his second coming.
All the events happen when the seals are opened, just like it says. Jesus returns to the clouds at the 6th seal and sends His angels to gather His elect, just like it says in Matt 24. Then Jesus returns to heaven and there is a great multitude in Heaven, just like it says in Rev 7. Why not try just reading what it says and believing it. Anything else is futile.


That's the most common interpretation but it remains incorrect.
I think just reading what it says is the best interpretation.

He only comes back here when the 7th and last trump sounds.
He comes from heaven and remains in the clouds to gather His elect, as we can see at the 6th seal, Matt 24 and Rev 14. Then everyone goes to heaven for the marriage supper. That's why there is a great multitude in heaven in Rev 7.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
You are confusing the last trump, which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets to the last trumpet which is blown by an angel. The last trumpet is the end of the wrath of God. The Last Trump is the signal for the gathering at the 6th seal which is Matt 24.
The 7th trump will sound, Christ will leave heaven and arrive at the clouds of the Earth, the dead will resurrect and the living saints will be changed and then raptured up to those same clouds and then Christ will come further down to the Earth where many things will happen like the vials of the wrath of God and Armageddon etc.
The 7th trumpet is the end of the wrath of God. Armageddon has already happened when the 7th trumpet is blown.
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
The vials are just another view of the wrath of God.

The Last Trump, which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets, is for the gathering, which is why we see the angels sent to gather the elect in Matt 24. This event happens at the 6th seal, which is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Rev 7.............. Just like it says.

The Last Trump has absolutely nothing to do with the 7th trumpet blown by an angel. That trumpet signals the END of the wrath of God. The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord.
 
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vinsight4u

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The seven trumpets end, then there is a time of silence/Revelation 8 - and then
the seven trumpets angels return so the seven full vials can get poured.

At the 7th trumpet time, Jesus will return as shown in Revelation 14 -
wearing - one - crown -
at the time of Armageddon, He has returned on a white horse - with the saints
and He wears many crowns

-At the 7th trumpet time is when the resurrection of the just take place and
then the rest of the church people that are still alive after the great tribulation
ended will be caught up- all changed together.

our gathering together unto Him shall not come

till
the man of sin be revealed

The church is going to be here still looking for the rapture time - of our
gathering as shown in 2 Thessalonians 2.
 
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Up to the time of the 7th trumpet - the nations are angry.
Revelation 11 shows they are the ones destroying the earth.

God will only punish Israel by parts - as in one-third.
God will punish the wicked beast and followers by full strength
vials.

Before the vials are poured Israel will flee Babylon's land.
/as in from Iraq's area
Jeremiah 50 -51 shows all the words were spoken against
one place - the Euphrates.

The Jews/Israel didn't finish yet their 70 years under Babylonian
kings. Darius began to rule and then years later Cyrus freed
those that wanted to rebuild in Jerusalem.
 
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vinsight4u

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PS: If Daniel 11:45 refers to the antichrist, how is he slain to the west of Jerusalem if the battle of Armageddon occurs to the northeast and if his forces come from the northeast?


Yes, Daniel 11:45 is referring to the ac -the little horn -the vile person that shows up in
Daniel 11:21 to begin the story about his future time.

Before this, it tells of a war - and a prince that will cause this warring king to fall.
Daniel 11:21
"...shall arise a vile person..."
11:22
"...the prince of the covenant...."
Seems to refer to the one that makes a treaty from the time of war earlier.
The vile person will take this treaty prince down.

After this, a league will be made with this vile person. He becomes strong with a
small people.

Daniel 11:36 shows him to be the one Paul called - son of perdition- will exalt himself.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
Daniel 11:36 also tells how this exalts himself person will prosper - as in keep gaining
till the indignation is accomplished.
as in - till the end of the great tribulation
He goes down at the end of Daniel 11.
 
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The seven trumpets end, then there is a time of silence/Revelation 8 - and then

NO...........the sixth seal ends and then the 7th seal is opened..........THEN the 7 trumpets occur in order. At the 7th trumpet......THE WRATH OF GOD IS OVER.

the seven trumpets angels return so the seven full vials can get poured.
NO........the vials are just another view of what happens during the wrath of God. Which means that the wrath of God is over when the 7th trumpet begins to sound and it also means that the wrath of God is over when the 7 vial is poured. Two different views of things that happen in the same timeframe.
At the 7th trumpet time, Jesus will return as shown in Revelation 14 -
wearing - one - crown -
at the time of Armageddon, He has returned on a white horse - with the saints
and He wears many crowns
NO.......... the wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet. What you see in Rev 14 takes place in the seals of Rev 6. When you see Jesus coming in Rev 14...........that is Jesus coming at the 6th seal, which is Jesus coming in Matt 24.

-At the 7th trumpet time is when the resurrection of the just take place and
then the rest of the church people that are still alive after the great tribulation
ended will be caught up- all changed together.
NO.........the Church is in heaven BEFORE the SEALS ARE OPENED. See Rev 4 and 5.
our gathering together unto Him shall not come

till
the man of sin be revealed

The gathering is a gathering from heaven and earth.
Mark 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The Church is gathered FROM HEAVEN and the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman are gathered from the earth. The people in the physical nation of Israel go through the wrath of God.
The church is going to be here still looking for the rapture time - of our
gathering as shown in 2 Thessalonians 2.
The Church will be in heaven when the Lord returns to the clouds to gather His elect. The Church will come with Him as where the body is the eagles will be gathered. When the 12 tribes are gathered from the earth, both the Church and the 12 tribes will return to heaven for the marriage supper. Then both return to the earth with the Lord and Armageddon occurs.
 
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Up to the time of the 7th trumpet - the nations are angry.
Revelation 11 shows they are the ones destroying the earth.

God will only punish Israel by parts - as in one-third.
God will punish the wicked beast and followers by full strength
vials.

Before the vials are poured Israel will flee Babylon's land.
/as in from Iraq's area
Jeremiah 50 -51 shows all the words were spoken against
one place - the Euphrates.

The Jews/Israel didn't finish yet their 70 years under Babylonian
kings. Darius began to rule and then years later Cyrus freed
those that wanted to rebuild in Jerusalem.
NO...........Israel will not be in Babylon and there will be no need to flee Babylon. Part of Israel will flee to a place of protection but that has nothing whatsoever to do with Babylon.
 
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PS: If Daniel 11:45 refers to the antichrist, how is he slain to the west of Jerusalem if the battle of Armageddon occurs to the northeast and if his forces come from the northeast?


Yes, Daniel 11:45 is referring to the ac -the little horn -the vile person that shows up in
Daniel 11:21 to begin the story about his future time.

NO..........Ummmm.........errrr..........ahhhhhh, neither Daniel 11:45 or Daniel 11:21 refers to the Antichrist. They refer to the 7th king. That Antichrist is the eighth king. The seventh king is "A" KING OF THE NORTH.


Daniel 11:36 shows him to be the one Paul called - son of perdition- will exalt himself.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
Daniel 11:36 also tells how this exalts himself person will prosper - as in keep gaining
There will be more that one who claims to be the Messiah.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.


till the indignation is accomplished.
as in - till the end of the great tribulation
NO.............Accomplishing the indignation is not the same as the end of the great tribulation. We can prove that because the great tribulation has not started when he goes down at the end of Daniel 11. We can see that in Daniel 12.
Dan 12:12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

He goes down at the end of Daniel 11.[/QUOTE]
The FACT that he goes down at the end of Daniel 11 should tell you that he is NOT the Antichrist as we know that the Antichrist is cast into the pit. We can further prove this by looking at the events of Rev 12.
 
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