Angels

TedT · May 29, 2021

Love First said:
But what I am questioning is whether or not they have physical bodies. Because even though I am a spiritual being I also have a physical body and yes it may be the same with angels.

Please consider, the angels are not just spirit beings but people working for GOD as messengers etc.

ANGELS ARE PEOPLE because Angels have free will:
1. Angels worship GOD:
Hebrews 1:6 points out that angels worship the Lord. We also see the heavenly host praising God in Luke 2:13–14. Robotic praise and worship is a parody of the real thing and worthless in heaven. When you put on a dvd and listen to a worship song singing praises to GOD, do you think or allude to the dvd as worshipping? Of course you don't.

2. Some angels are elect:
1 Timothy 5:21 I charge thee before GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the ELECT angels. implying the fallen angels, the non-elect demons are the people of the evil one, the tares, sown into the world by the devil, Matt 13:38-39. IF angels can choose to sin and become demons, they can also choose to be holy and work for GOD.

3. Angels are holy:
Mark 8:38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the HOLY angels. This verse contrasts the sinfulness of men with the holiness, that is, the righteousness of angels, not just their consecration to GOD. Robotic holiness is a farce...a stone cannot sin but it is not righteous and neither can a robot be holy, that is, in the context of this verse, righteous. As well, Satan's condemnation is proof of his free will as he is not guilty of anything if he is a robot...

4. Angels have emotions such as love, joy, desire, sadness, pride, and anger:
Luke 15:10 indicates that angels are joyous when one person repents. The devil has great wrath in Revelation 12:12. The angels and the devil have desires (1 Peter 1:12; John 8:44). Why would anyone create a robotic group with emotions to drive them when HIS will is all that is necessary to drive them? Robotic emotions??? Surely only people have emotions...proof of their personhood in the image of GOD.

5. Angels are Persons in the image of GOD:
In the resurrection, man will be as the angels of God. Matt 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. In the resurrection, man is restored to the image of God in which he was created. The angels of God must, therefore, bear the image of God.

The image of GOD cannot contain sin therefore for man to be a sinner, the image must be broken. In the resurrection we will be restored to the full image of GOD and like the angels as this verse hints, who therefore must also be in HIS image. When did they receive the image of God unless it was in creation?

The image of GOD? I think it means things like personhood that is, self awareness, intelligence, emotional ability, curiosity and creativity and the ability to make true free will decisions. Therefore any being that fits this description fits the image of GOD... ImCo, it also means they are suitable as marriage partners for our GOD, part of those who make up HIS Bride who were elected to be conformed to HIS Son and to heaven.

Not only does the ability to worship, to praise, to be elect and to be holy imply personhood, they also imply they have free will and if you combine free will with election of some and the fall of others, you get angels going through an Adam like choice with some staying holy and Satan and his crew choosing that which made them forever evil in HIS sight.

Pre-Conception Existence theology contends that EVERY PERSON was created in the image of GOD (that is, able to be HIS Bride. None were created knowing they would end in hell) but as true innocents we only had the potential for perfection, ie, we had to choose by our free will to accept GOD and HIS life for us in heaven to fulfill our potential to become perfect in righteousness. Our fall into sin delayed the fulfillment of that potential by making it impossible to fulfill without grace. Our redemption is a restoration to the potential and the new creation is the fully realized fulfillment of HIS purpose for our creation in us....to be HIS Bride.

Peace, Ted

Love First · May 29, 2021

15 Angel Sightings That Will Convince You They Are Real!

It’s often claimed that we all have a guardian angel, we just don’t see them. But we live in a very rational world, and many people continue to be skeptical about the existence of angels. If you’re one of those people, prepare to have your beliefs tested. From a graveyard guardian to a traveling flock of sky tourists, here are 15 Angel Sightings That Will Convince You They Are Real!

Love First · May 29, 2021

TedT said:
Please consider, the angels are not just spirit beings but people working for GOD as messengers etc.

ANGELS ARE PEOPLE because Angels have free will:
1. Angels worship GOD:
Hebrews 1:6 points out that angels worship the Lord. We also see the heavenly host praising God in Luke 2:13–14. Robotic praise and worship is a parody of the real thing and worthless in heaven. When you put on a dvd and listen to a worship song singing praises to GOD, do you think or allude to the dvd as worshipping? Of course you don't.

2. Some angels are elect:
1 Timothy 5:21 I charge thee before GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the ELECT angels. implying the fallen angels, the non-elect demons are the people of the evil one, the tares, sown into the world by the devil, Matt 13:38-39. IF angels can choose to sin and become demons, they can also choose to be holy and work for GOD.

3. Angels are holy:
Mark 8:38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the HOLY angels. This verse contrasts the sinfulness of men with the holiness, that is, the righteousness of angels, not just their consecration to GOD. Robotic holiness is a farce...a stone cannot sin but it is not righteous and neither can a robot be holy, that is, in the context of this verse, righteous. As well, Satan's condemnation is proof of his free will as he is not guilty of anything if he is a robot...

4. Angels have emotions such as love, joy, desire, sadness, pride, and anger:
Luke 15:10 indicates that angels are joyous when one person repents. The devil has great wrath in Revelation 12:12. The angels and the devil have desires (1 Peter 1:12; John 8:44). Why would anyone create a robotic group with emotions to drive them when HIS will is all that is necessary to drive them? Robotic emotions??? Surely only people have emotions...proof of their personhood in the image of GOD.

5. Angels are Persons in the image of GOD:
In the resurrection, man will be as the angels of God. Matt 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. In the resurrection, man is restored to the image of God in which he was created. The angels of God must, therefore, bear the image of God.

The image of GOD cannot contain sin therefore for man to be a sinner, the image must be broken. In the resurrection we will be restored to the full image of GOD and like the angels as this verse hints, who therefore must also be in HIS image. When did they receive the image of God unless it was in creation?

The image of GOD? I think it means things like personhood that is, self awareness, intelligence, emotional ability, curiosity and creativity and the ability to make true free will decisions. Therefore any being that fits this description fits the image of GOD... ImCo, it also means they are suitable as marriage partners for our GOD, part of those who make up HIS Bride who were elected to be conformed to HIS Son and to heaven.

Not only does the ability to worship, to praise, to be elect and to be holy imply personhood, they also imply they have free will and if you combine free will with election of some and the fall of others, you get angels going through an Adam like choice with some staying holy and Satan and his crew choosing that which made them forever evil in HIS sight.

Pre-Conception Existence theology contends that EVERY PERSON was created in the image of GOD (that is, able to be HIS Bride. None were created knowing they would end in hell) but as true innocents we only had the potential for perfection, ie, we had to choose by our free will to accept GOD and HIS life for us in heaven to fulfill our potential to become perfect in righteousness. Our fall into sin delayed the fulfillment of that potential by making it impossible to fulfill without grace. Our redemption is a restoration to the potential and the new creation is the fully realized fulfillment of HIS purpose for our creation in us....to be HIS Bride.

Peace, Ted

I completely agree. I do believe that angels have bodies. But I do also wonder if they can also operate invisibly or in spirit form. I believe they can operate invisibly because I’m 100% positive that I have seen them operating invisibly in my life.

TedT · May 29, 2021

Albion said:
And by the way, why would a spirit being have wings anyway?

Wings are a metaphor for being free and fast and also for being covered ie hidden from us...it is not merely a physical description any more that their being covered with eyes is.

Remember, angels walk among us without being noticed:
Hebrews 13:2 Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.

Love First · May 29, 2021

Robbie Williams - Angels (Official Video)

disciple Clint · May 30, 2021

TedT said:
Are we not spirit beings, Ecclesiastes 12:7 ...and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. who are resurrected in a new spirit body: 1 Corinthians 15:44 ...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Does return imply we were with GOD as spirits before coming to earth to be sown into the world of mankind, Matt 13:36 Then Jesus dismissed the crowds and went into the house. His disciples came to Him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”37 He replied, “The One who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed represents the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil.? Consider that to sow cannot mean to create as the devil was said to sow also.

Is there any precedent in scripture to think we are spirits like the angels are spirits...remembering that 'angel' is not a type of creature but is a job description? Well someone was there before the creation of the physical universe as we learn Job 38:7...while the morning stars sang together and ALL the sons of God shouted for joy? We also see that some translators have chosen to interpret all the sons of GOD as angels because we are sons of GOD and since they do not accept that we could have been there singing HIS praises they most helpfully use a totally wrong eisegetical word with the wrong reference to make sure we don't fall into the pit of thinking we were there...

So much for letting the words speak for themselves, eh?

There seems to be no end to the unorthodox views of Scripture.

JulieB67 · May 31, 2021

Love First said:
Please can you show me the instances when the scriptures say angels appeared in human form?

Here's one instance. The men of Sodom even wanted to have "their way" with the angels that were sent to Sodom and Lot even tried to get them to leave...fearing and knowing what would happen. And yes, they have bodies/mass and can eat. They can eat our food just as we can eat theirs- manna.

As others have already stated, angels are messengers.

Genesis 19:1 "And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground

Genesis 19:2 "And he said, "Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways." And they said, "Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.

Lot even told them to wash their feet, so yes, they definitely look like us. And if they were flying in the air with wings, they would have no need to wash their feet. Back then everyone had to wash the dirt off their feet.

Genesis 19:3 "And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat."

Genesis 19:4 "But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:"

Genesis 19:5 "And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, "Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them."

Angels are often called men in the bible. That's because they look exactly like us.

Love First · May 31, 2021

JulieB67 said:
Here's one instance. The men of Sodom even wanted to have "their way" with the angels that were sent to Sodom and Lot even tried to get them to leave...fearing and knowing what would happen. And yes, they have bodies/mass and can eat. They can eat our food just as we can eat theirs- manna.

As others have already stated, angels are messengers.

Genesis 19:1 "And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground

Genesis 19:2 "And he said, "Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways." And they said, "Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.

Lot even told them to wash their feet, so yes, they definitely look like us. And if they were flying in the air with wings, they would have no need to wash their feet. Back then everyone had to wash the dirt off their feet.

Genesis 19:3 "And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat."

Genesis 19:4 "But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:"

Genesis 19:5 "And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, "Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them."

Angels are often called men in the bible. That's because they look exactly like us.

Just because the angels had feet that doesn’t mean that they didn’t have wings.

Love First · May 31, 2021

Love First · May 31, 2021

JulieB67 said:
Here's one instance. The men of Sodom even wanted to have "their way" with the angels that were sent to Sodom and Lot even tried to get them to leave...fearing and knowing what would happen. And yes, they have bodies/mass and can eat. They can eat our food just as we can eat theirs- manna.

As others have already stated, angels are messengers.

Genesis 19:1 "And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground

Genesis 19:2 "And he said, "Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways." And they said, "Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.

Lot even told them to wash their feet, so yes, they definitely look like us. And if they were flying in the air with wings, they would have no need to wash their feet. Back then everyone had to wash the dirt off their feet.

Genesis 19:3 "And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat."

Genesis 19:4 "But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:"

Genesis 19:5 "And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, "Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them."

Angels are often called men in the bible. That's because they look exactly like us.

Thanks for sharing that with me it’s been a long time since I read it.

Blade · Jun 4, 2021

SongOnTheWind said:
Looks like some computer graphics and editing to me.

Seen these and I would agree. Not all angels have wings. What kind have wings? Knowing even this you then can know.

Then we know a fallen angel can make its self look like an angel of light. Fallen angels still look the same. They are not evil looking what have you. Every thing God gave them they still have yet they have no authority. So how would one know if that was (IF this was true) Gods angel or a fallen one? A fallen one could show up look so beautiful and say "GOD TOLD ME TO TELL YOU"...how would you know it was not of God? How would you test the spirits?

For me.. tell me we are washed by the blood of Jesus! Things like that.. Or Tell me Jesus came in the flesh died on the cross.. so forth so on. If they are of GOD.. they EXPECT you to test them since GOD in His word told us to! Remember that

Bruce Leiter · Jun 5, 2021

Love First said:
I want to start a thread to discuss angels. I am placing this in the controversial section because I’m sure that this thread may fall into grey areas eventually. I am going to start off this discussion by sharing a video with YOU.

Angel caught on mall CCTV cameras, Watch Video

An angel was caught on a closed circuit television video in Cilandak Town Square, South Jakarta, Indonesia. The luminous glowing apparition that appears on the grainy black and white CCTV video certainly has all the hallmarks of being an actual alien. It doesn't take any imagination to see that the alien creature sports large white wings visible on the sides of its body. It seems to drop from the sky

I don't know what or who that light is. I don't base my faith in angels because of such a video because it's unclear that it's actually an angel. It could be some physical phenomenon, a demon, or an angel.

Rather, I base my belief in angels and demons on the Bible as God's inspired Word. I don't need a video to have such faith. God created the angels, a large number of whom, with Satan as their leader, rebelled against God and continue to tempt believers.

Jipsah · Jun 7, 2021

Love First said:
There are many instances of angels appearing physically in the scriptures. What makes you believe that angels do not have physical form?

They may, but all that video proves is that people can and will interpret anything to look like an image of something else. Clouds that look like George Washington, rocks that look horses, Christ's image in a piece of toast. Brains automatically try to make visual patterns into familiar forms, we're just designed that way. Sometimes the patterns aren't of anything at all, but our brains attach a reference to them anyway. So you look at the video and see an angel. Others see an "alien". I see a shiny bird alighting and taking off. I'm willing to bet that it was actually none of the above.

Jipsah · Jun 7, 2021

Love First said:
No, they’re not just spheres of light in the videos I have seen they are visible forms. I have experienced angels in my own life so I know they exist.

Once again, the question isn't whether or not angels exist, it's whether or not any given picture or video is an angel. I'm betting pictures of angels are scarcer than hen's teeth.

Jipsah · Jun 7, 2021

Love First said:
What proof do you have that angels don’t still appear physically in our day and age?

"Prove they don't" is always silly. Prove I'm not rightwise king born of all England. I'm pretty sure I'm not, but I reckon you'll have a hard time proving it.

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