Love: Eros

Jamdoc said:

a bearded Christ is not feminine, and not exclusively mine.

as for Genesis, yeah, God removed a rib from Adam because the marrow in ribs produces stem cells that can be used for cloning (in adult humans it's the flat bones like your hips collar bones, shoulder blades and ribs that produce most of your blood cells, it's where you can find a good source of hematopoietic stem cells) . He didn't take femininity out of a man, He took human stem cells and DNA and modified them to make feminine where there was none.

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This is not very poetic...at all...

Tone said:

This is not very poetic...at all...

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There is both poetic, and practical in anything God does. That is the practical.

Jamdoc said:

as for Genesis, yeah, God removed a rib from Adam because the marrow in ribs produces stem cells that can be used for cloning (in adult humans it's the flat bones like your hips collar bones, shoulder blades and ribs that produce most of your blood cells, it's where you can find a good source of hematopoietic stem cells) .

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OK. Do the missing rib regenerate and grow back then?

Jamdoc said:

He didn't take femininity out of a man

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Right. So how would you describe the femininity of a man?

Jamdoc said:

a bearded Christ is not feminine, and not exclusively mine.

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You have an image of God that is unique to only you. You gotta talk about the gentle, quiet, humble Spirit of Christ and admire the hidden person of the heart of Christ before we talk about His beard.

Do you believe Christ loves you so much that He would come and die for you if you were the only person to receive Him?

If there’s not femininity with Christ, then explain John 1:3 and what is the image of God in a female.

Jamdoc said:

and the reality is, part of why I know I will remain single, is because I am so broken that I would not subject to any woman this broken man to be a curse on her. I need to be healed and fixed first, so that I'm not a curse.

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Open up to the hidden person (feminine) in you and listen to “her”. She is the wisdom of Christ in you and is calling you. She brings healing as she is the seed in you that brings to life the Christ in you. That's how it works, as in a marriage union. You first marry her and love her within you and she will give birth to Christ in you who will then bring you healing and fix you.

Jamdoc said:

There is both poetic, and practical in anything God does. That is the practical.

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Bro., You aren't even nurturing the feminine in you, so how will He give you the feminine in another to nurture?

Women came from man, and Messiah came from woman.

The Seed of the woman.

GospelS said:

OK. Do the missing rib regenerate and grow back then?

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No, I mean I suppose in Adam's case God could have but I don't think He did, I think God left the rib out as a reminder of the close bond that Adam and Eve had to have shared. Like I think Christ will still bear the wounds of His crucifixion when we see Him to remind us of what He did for us, and the bond that we have to have with Him.

Right. So how would you describe the femininity of a man?

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Femininity should not exist in a man. Things attributed to "femininity" are often mislabeled. Is a man feminine because he cries or is emotional? No. Man has emotions, and they can be felt and expressed in masculine ways. Even crying. God designed us to express sorrow, and joy, through weeping. Is a man feminine because he has a romantic heart? God forbid! Romance was afterall, conceived of by a masculine God. Men and women express it in masculine or feminine ways but it is not of itself, feminine even though the world may view it that way. Is a man feminine because he is a nurturing father? Again, God forbid. A father is ideally nurturing in a masculine way. The ideal is not masculinity and femininity in the same person. The ideal is every concept, every emotion, every act, can be done in a masculine or feminine way, exemplifying the complementary God designed differences between men and women. It is part of what gives men and women their unique value. The ideal is 2 different, complementary people one masculine and one feminine bonded together, serving God together. It is in a sense, it's own trinity. Male, Female, and God, just as a person is body soul and spirit, just as the Godhead is Father Son and Spirit.

You have an image of God that is unique to only you. You gotta talk about the gentle, quiet, humble Spirit of Christ and admire the hidden person of the heart of Christ before we talk about His beard.

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Gentleness and compassion are not exclusively feminine qualities. That's a misattributed idea.
a man can be gentle and compassionate, and express it in masculine ways. Jesus did so.
We don't see Jesus being effeminate (which is sin), we see Jesus being the very epitome of what a man is supposed to be.

Do you believe Christ loves you so much that He would come and die for you if you were the only person to receive Him?

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I have seasons of doubt and feel like I just jumped in along for the ride along with people far better than me, but at the same time I know God has chosen me for a reason, I know that a lot of the suffering I go through is conditioning for what I feel will be extremely hard times going forward. It's like training for track or cross country, you run to build up strength and endurance and improve your ability to perform in a race.

If there’s not femininity with Christ, then explain John 1:3 and what is the image of God in a female.

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a man, especially God, can imagine something and create it without it being part of Him. JRR Tolkien created Hobbits and he wasn't a halfling living in a hole in the ground, I'm pretty sure Jesus could create femininity without being feminine.
As for the image.. you have the same structure, you're the same species, so that's in the same image of God, but female instead of male. I don't see what's so complex about that.
I wonder if the ideas of inner femininity and masculinity come from eastern religion or gnosticism, because they don't come from the bible, but it is definitely something in new age philosophy.

The rest of what you post after this is definitely gnostic in character.

Jamdoc said:

No, I mean I suppose in Adam's case God could have but I don't think He did, I think God left the rib out as a reminder of the close bond that Adam and Eve had to have shared. Like I think Christ will still bear the wounds of His crucifixion when we see Him to remind us of what He did for us, and the bond that we have to have with Him.

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Ribs do grow back although they bear the marks of any injury or loss. You don’t believe you already have and that they can grow back again when removed so you don’t have for God to take it out of you. You can’t give it to Him when you don’t believe you have it in you. You might say or think you do believe but you actually don’t know it or believe that it does exists.

Jamdoc said:

Femininity should not exist in a man. Things attributed to "femininity" are often mislabeled. Is a man feminine because he cries or is emotional? No. Man has emotions, and they can be felt and expressed in masculine ways. Even crying. God designed us to express sorrow, and joy, through weeping. Is a man feminine because he has a romantic heart? God forbid! Romance was afterall, conceived of by a masculine God. Men and women express it in masculine or feminine ways but it is not of itself, feminine even though the world may view it that way. Is a man feminine because he is a nurturing father? Again, God forbid. A father is ideally nurturing in a masculine way. The ideal is not masculinity and femininity in the same person. The ideal is every concept, every emotion, every act, can be done in a masculine or feminine way, exemplifying the complementary God designed differences between men and women. It is part of what gives men and women their unique value. The ideal is 2 different, complementary people one masculine and one feminine bonded together, serving God together. It is in a sense, it's own trinity. Male, Female, and God, just as a person is body soul and spirit, just as the Godhead is Father Son and Spirit.

Gentleness and compassion are not exclusively feminine qualities. That's a misattributed idea.
a man can be gentle and compassionate, and express it in masculine ways. Jesus did so.
We don't see Jesus being effeminate (which is sin), we see Jesus being the very epitome of what a man is supposed to be.

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Have you studied the two women from the book of proverbs? One is of God and other of the devil. She was with God in the beginning and took part in all creation with God. She delighted in the children of men. Proverbs 8. All creation has her. Men are supposed to have her in them too.

Jamdoc said:

I have seasons of doubt and feel like I just jumped in along for the ride along with people far better than me, but at the same time I know God has chosen me for a reason, I know that a lot of the suffering I go through is conditioning for what I feel will be extremely hard times going forward. It's like training for track or cross country, you run to build up strength and endurance and improve your ability to perform in a race.

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It is why you don’t see the exclusive love of Christ for you. You doubt. That’s good you know God has chosen you for a reason. I can say I see it already. He will surprise with the opposite you once you run out all your strength and ability, and find no fruit of your suffering in the end when you come look for it. It is going to blow your mind and make you run all the way backwards and start over with joy, and a rib that you never knew was already with you to help you all along. God will let you run only to help you see that rib and learn to appreciate that which He already put in you, so you put faith in it and run with it all over, rather than your strength and ability.

Jamdoc said:

a man, especially God, can imagine something and create it without it being part of Him. JRR Tolkien created Hobbits and he wasn't a halfling living in a hole in the ground, I'm pretty sure Jesus could create femininity without being feminine.
As for the image.. you have the same structure, you're the same species, so that's in the same image of God, but female instead of male. I don't see what's so complex about that.
I wonder if the ideas of inner femininity and masculinity come from eastern religion or gnosticism, because they don't come from the bible, but it is definitely something in new age philosophy.

The rest of what you post after this is definitely gnostic in character.

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You think in physical terms only while spiritual existed before the physical came to life. That’s why you don’t see it in the Bible. Word becomes flesh. You don’t have that Word in you, not yet. A heart of flesh He gives. (Ezekiel 11 and 36)

To the OP question,
I suppose your are inquiring as to the nature and need of marriage between and man and woman?
1. The deepest emotional, physical and (hopefully) spiritual intimacy with a human being on this earth.
2. To enjoy regular holy physical intimacy as God intended and be wholly satisfied in that way.
3. To enjoy an exclusive companion and compliment as God had designed from the beginning.
4. Procreation if that is one's disposition

Your thought? Just a small summary. God bless.

EpicScore said:

So part of my question is trying to explore the romantic/sexual desire in our earthly experiences and the implications that might have on our relationship with God in this present life.

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Eros is given that we may know and understand the origin of life, its mystery and beauty, that is God the Father, Holy Spirit, and the Son-

so that it would cause us to worship Him with our highest praise,
that we may know how deep His love is for us,
that we may find our life hidden in Him,
to know the image of God given to us,
that we could bear many sons unto His kingdom,
and give Him back what belongs to Him,
that we may know to honor and handle with care what is most sacred,
that we would know He is the consuming fire,
that we may know the fear of the Lord and imitate Him,
that we may taste and desire and hunger more of Him,
so that we could love Him with all our being.

EpicScore said:

I'm less worried about the lack of marriage and sex in Heaven. I do, however, wonder if my lack of such desires even in the present would be a hindrance in my walk with God.

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It depends on where the lack of such desire stems from. Nothing can be a hindrance to those that are grafted into the tree of life, Christ.

EpicScore said:

In our human relationship, Eros love is defined by exclusivity (as some have answered in this thread), but when it comes to our relationship with God, the Eros analogy is used for the corporate body of believers: Christ is married to Church, not the individual believer. There seems to be a dissonance here, and I'd be happy to hear more opinions on this.

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Agape love is much deeper and more fulfilling than Eros. Eros not rooted in agape is lust that fades out eventually, breaking hearts, even making people sick or sick of it. For that reason, any kind of love has to begin with agape for it to also end with agape and have it forever. Within the context of Eros, elderly couples usually experience this agape love and its sweeter than what they had before. The formula is pure agape leading to Eros and maturing on to perfected agape.

I hope this helps.

GospelS said:

Any relationship not based upon agape is not of God. Agape love goes onto eternity. Our resurrected bodies will all have the same mind and perfect union in Christ. Then we see many expressions of one body, as though there is no other but Christ since we will all be conformed to His image. We would all experience the same love flowing in us, and it’s still exclusive because then we will all be joined together. What is not possible in Adam is made possible in Christ. The Holy Spirit has been sent to do that and it is underway. At present, we may think in individual terms because we are still in our earthly flesh, among the dead and evil. But that's what makes it a mystery. God bless!

Ephesians 1:9-10 He made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment- to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

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GospelS said:

Agape love is much deeper and more fulfilling than Eros. Eros not rooted in agape fades out eventually, breaking hearts, even making people sick or sick of it. For that reason, any kind of love has to begin with agape for it to also end with agape and have it forever. Within the context of Eros, elderly couples usually experience this agape love and its sweeter than what they had before. The formula is pure agape leading to Eros and maturing on to perfected agape.

I hope this helps.

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I'd say they aren't directly comparable because they are different in quality, and they are best in combination. Those elderly couples you speak of, they are experiencing both agape AND eros, and that is where it's really sweet.
It's not a mutually exclusive thing, which is what I tire of people making the claim of. That agape is "better" so you can safely disregard eros.

If you want to say agape is more fulfilling than eros that doesn't also include agape? sure. But agape and eros can coexist in the same relationship and a relationship of agape + eros working together, is more intimate than agape alone.
You can love a person and be willing to die for them (agape), but still not feel particularly close to them, even if you value them above yourself.

Jamdoc said:

But agape and eros can coexist in the same relationship.

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That's what I meant. Agape is complete love, meaning it has all aspects of love within it. You won't miss any kind of love in eternity. It not only co-exists but is the foundation for all kinds of love.

GospelS said:

That's what I meant. Agape is complete love, meaning it has all aspects of love within it. You won't miss any kind of love in eternity. It not only co-exists but is the foundation for all kinds of love.

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Having Agape love doesn't always include eros love. You can have Agape love without any romantic feelings for someone, it can be Agape + philia. You experience that a lot in the military... where you'd be willing to put your life on the line and die for your brothers in arms because you love them and value them and want them to be able to go back home to their family alive... but it doesn't include eros.

Jamdoc said:

Having Agape love doesn't always include eros love. You can have Agape love without any romantic feelings for someone, it can be Agape + philia. You experience that a lot in the military... where you'd be willing to put your life on the line and die for your brothers in arms because you love them and value them and want them to be able to go back home to their family alive... but it doesn't include eros.

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Sure. That's for us here and now. God's agape love includes all of it. That's the mystery. I was talking about God's agape, and it's not the same as our's or any other creatures. Animals exhibit this sometimes much better than we do. All of it is contained and comes forth from God's agape, in different expressions, although not perfect at this time.

GospelS said:

Sure. That's for us here and now. God's agape love includes all of it. That's the mystery. I was talking about God's agape, and it's not the same as our's or any other creatures. Animals exhibit this sometimes much better than we do. All of it is contained and comes forth from God's agape, in different expressions, although not perfect at this time.

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God's love wouldn't include eros towards us or us towards Him.
again you're going into what borders on worldly gender theory that there is no male and female but masculine and feminine and that males can be feminine and females can be masculine. The bible declares that a male being feminine is sin, and vice versa (Deuteronomy 22:5, 1 Corinthians 6:9). The idea of femininity within men and masculininty within women is contrary to God's design.

Eros exists between male and female, exclusively.
not masculine and feminine. Male and female. A man who tries to exhibit eros love with a "feminine" man, is still committing abomination.

Galatians 3:28 is not saying we don't have distinct sexes but rather than those distinct sexes have equal value in the eyes of the Lord.

Jamdoc said:

God's love wouldn't include eros towards us or us towards Him.
again you're going into what borders on worldly gender theory that there is no male and female but masculine and feminine and that males can be feminine and females can be masculine. The bible declares that a male being feminine is sin, and vice versa (Deuteronomy 22:5, 1 Corinthians 6:9). The idea of femininity within men and masculininty within women is contrary to God's design.

Eros exists between male and female, exclusively.
not masculine and feminine. Male and female. A man who tries to exhibit eros love with a "feminine" man, is still committing abomination.

Galatians 3:28 is not saying we don't have distinct sexes but rather than those distinct sexes have equal value in the eyes of the Lord.

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@Jamdoc
If God’s agape has no Eros towards us, then there can’t be any Eros but only lust of the devil.

God put Adam to deep sleep, took out his soft part, covered it up in flesh, and made a wife for him. But the image of God is not about structure and species. God is a Spirit. He can take out some of your soft features, plant that seed inside another flesh, and make a wife for you. Then she resembles a bit like you and you identify her with yourself, as though God has made her for you.

Man’s DNA has an X and a Y. Man is able to bring forth a female child. The X in male sperm cell is added to an X of a female reproductive cell to form a female child (XX) in the womb. Male is XY- That’s feminine within masculine, also exiting together and with each other. God takes it out from the man and covers it up in flesh in the womb and makes a female child out of him. Women have only XX sets of chromosomes. They are not visible to our naked eye but are real. The X chromosome is present in all while Y denotes a male. If anything different, then it could possibly become a eunuch or other variations. That’s some genetics lesson. Now apply this wisdom/logic revealed in God's design within your physical body to the spiritual context- your soul/heart/mind. Might help explain prevailing gender dysphorias in today’s world. Men with no feminine side to them results in a society of women with no femininity in them.

If there’s no bride in you, then you have no part in the eternal marriage to Christ, the bridegroom. Since you do not want/feel it, there might be a different calling for you in the kingdom of God.

But He said to them, “Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.” Matthew 19:11-12.

GospelS said:

Eros is given that we may know and understand the origin of life, its mystery and beauty, that is God the Father, Holy Spirit, and the Son-

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Exactly. Eros is the recognition of beauty, goodness, and truth that draws us to God. (Plato tried to say the same things about Eros, but you nailed it). And I agree that divine agape is the whole package: reciprocal, mutual and abiding love between us and God, between us in God.

GospelS said:

@Jamdoc
If God’s agape has no Eros towards us, then there can’t be any Eros but only lust of the devil.

God put Adam to deep sleep, took out his soft part, covered it up in flesh, and made a wife for him. But the image of God is not about structure and species. God is a Spirit. He can take out some of your soft features, plant that seed inside another flesh, and make a wife for you. Then she resembles a bit like you and you identify her with yourself, as though God has made her for you.

Man’s DNA has an X and a Y. Man is able to bring forth a female child. The X in male sperm cell is added to an X of a female reproductive cell to form a female child (XX) in the womb. Male is XY- That’s feminine within masculine, also exiting together and with each other. God takes it out from the man and covers it up in flesh in the womb and makes a female child out of him. Women have only XX sets of chromosomes. They are not visible to our naked eye but are real. The X chromosome is present in all while Y denotes a male. If anything different, then it could possibly become a eunuch or other variations. That’s some genetics lesson. Now apply this wisdom/logic revealed in God's design within your physical body to the spiritual context- your soul/heart/mind. Might help explain prevailing gender dysphorias in today’s world. Men with no feminine side to them results in a society of women with no femininity in them.

If there’s no bride in you, then you have no part in the eternal marriage to Christ, the bridegroom. Since you do not want/feel it, there might be a different calling for you in the kingdom of God.

But He said to them, “Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.” Matthew 19:11-12.

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None of that is supported in scripture. What is supported in scripture is that femininity in men is sin.

Jamdoc said:

None of that is supported in scripture. What is supported in scripture is that femininity in men is sin.

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Christ is the seed of the woman. You can’t have Him if you don’t have her. You are only accusing God of sin. Spiritual truths are spiritually discerned.

GospelS said:

Christ is the seed of the woman. You can’t have Him if you don’t have her. You are only accusing God of sin. Spiritual truths are spiritually discerned.

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Nope I'm not accusing God of sin. I'm saying the bible defines what you say as sin, so Jesus did NOT do it. Jesus was not feminine.

EpicScore said:

This question is not just for singles, but this seems the most appropriate sub-board to ask this in.

Anyway, my question is this: when someone claims to love someone in a romantic sense and wishes to "go on steady" with that person, what are they looking for/expecting from that person, or the relationship with that person, that cannot be fulfilled by just being friends?

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Secks... ultimately (for guys at least).